Things that are harder than they should be.


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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Liberty's Edge

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zainale wrote:
a cat that can't climb.

Huh? House cats have a +6 Climb modifier.

zainale wrote:
and the campaign i am currently in. where 5 lvl 1 peasants can almost kill my lvl 5 character full plate armor in 1 round.

This is actually pretty realistic. One man is pretty much utterly screwed when that outnumbered in melee combat without a choke point in real life.

I mean, it's a potential game balance issue, but realism? Nah.


Rhedyn wrote:
Lemmy wrote:
That means even a sickly child with Con 7 can hold their breath for nearly 90 seconds... And your ordinary, untrained average joe can do it for 2 whole minutes without effort!

Your bloodstream contains enough oxygen for 5 minutes before any real problems occur.

You can attempt to breath water for 3 minutes and get resuscitated in 2 minutes and be just fine.

Meanwhile the world record is 19 minutes and 30 seconds, which is impossible for any Pathfinder character.

Con score required equals x

195 rounds = 2x + while(floor((x-10)/2)+d20 >> 10+r){r++};
Assume he rolls 10 everytime for world record luck

195 = 2x + floor((x-10)/2)

x = 83 constitution

Where did you find this information? It's hard to believe that he brain can stay 5 minutes withoht oxygen and be just fine.


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Deadmanwalking wrote:
zainale wrote:
a cat that can't climb.
Huh? House cats have a +6 Climb modifier.

Yeah, but they don't have hands.


Lemmy wrote:

Did anyone mention drowning?

I just put one the players of one of my games in an underwater combat, and revising the swim rules, it's noted that it's possible to hold your breath for a number of rounds equal to twice your Con score.

That means even a sickly child with Con 7 can hold their breath for nearly 90 seconds... And your ordinary, untrained average joe can do it for 2 whole minutes without effort!

No - the ordinary, untrained average Joe can do it for 2 whole minutes without suffering from drowning which isn't really all THAT unrealistic.


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Lemmy wrote:
Rhedyn wrote:
Lemmy wrote:
That means even a sickly child with Con 7 can hold their breath for nearly 90 seconds... And your ordinary, untrained average joe can do it for 2 whole minutes without effort!

Your bloodstream contains enough oxygen for 5 minutes before any real problems occur.

You can attempt to breath water for 3 minutes and get resuscitated in 2 minutes and be just fine.

Meanwhile the world record is 19 minutes and 30 seconds, which is impossible for any Pathfinder character.

Con score required equals x

195 rounds = 2x + while(floor((x-10)/2)+d20 >> 10+r){r++};
Assume he rolls 10 everytime for world record luck

195 = 2x + floor((x-10)/2)

x = 83 constitution

Where did you find this information? It's hard to believe that he brain can stay 5 minutes withoht oxygen and be just fine.

Free diver breaks world record holding breath underwater for 22 minutes, 22 seconds

They have techniques they use to hyperventilate, pack their lungs full of air, and then basically take themselves to the brink of death. It's one of the stupidest sports I can think of.


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It also requires concentration and lowering your heart rate - swimming/fighting underwater is much shorter and should probably use navy seal records for their drills which are still a few minutes.


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Lemmy wrote:
Rhedyn wrote:
Lemmy wrote:
That means even a sickly child with Con 7 can hold their breath for nearly 90 seconds... And your ordinary, untrained average joe can do it for 2 whole minutes without effort!

Your bloodstream contains enough oxygen for 5 minutes before any real problems occur.

You can attempt to breath water for 3 minutes and get resuscitated in 2 minutes and be just fine.

Meanwhile the world record is 19 minutes and 30 seconds, which is impossible for any Pathfinder character.

Con score required equals x

195 rounds = 2x + while(floor((x-10)/2)+d20 >> 10+r){r++};
Assume he rolls 10 everytime for world record luck

195 = 2x + floor((x-10)/2)

x = 83 constitution

Where did you find this information? It's hard to believe that he brain can stay 5 minutes withoht oxygen and be just fine.

Oh it wouldn't.

Oxygen in the blood stream means the brain still gets oxygen. When blood flow is interrupted that is when the brain dies really fast. Empty lungs do not mean you are suddenly out of oxygen.

The record I quoted was without hyperventilating oxygen.


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hiiamtom wrote:
It also requires concentration and lowering your heart rate - swimming/fighting underwater is much shorter and should probably use navy seal records for their drills which are still a few minutes.

If you're doing anything strenuous underwater in Pathfinder it takes an extra round of air - specifically, anything that requires either a full-round action or a standard action. So your rapid swimming (double move) or your fighting (using standard/full actions) is going to make it much shorter.


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Aratrok wrote:
Are you talking about AD&D or D&D?

1e = AD&D. Original D&D = 0e.


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Bob_Loblaw wrote:
If you read page 50 of the 1E DMG, you will see that the white dragon's speed of 12 inches translates to 4 mph for land speed and 30 inches translates to 10 mph for the flight speed. That's just their basic speed. That doesn't include "sprints" and "running."

Why these numbers are exactly double the calculated numbers remains a mystery for the sages to ponder.


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Lemmy wrote:
Where did you find this information? It's hard to believe that the brain can stay 5 minutes without oxygen and be just fine.

Did you see Mission: Impossible 5 last year? When they were filming the underwater vault scene, Tom Cruise held his breath for 6 minutes. And he's an actor, not a professional skin diver (then again, he trained for a year before attempting to film the scene). As to whether his brain is "just fine," let's not go there!


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Something that's harder than it should be: mortally wounding someone. It's very hard to find a dying man and have him utter a few painful last words within the normal rules. If he's conscious, he's going to be fine. If he's injured but alive, a quick heal check will ensure he doesn't die.


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Kirth Gersen wrote:
Aratrok wrote:
Are you talking about AD&D or D&D?
1e = AD&D. Original D&D = 0e.

Where does basic fit in all this?


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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

It is a younger half-sibling to 1st edition AD&D.

Actually, given how many different versions of it were printed, it is basically a whole cadet lineage of that family.


Rhedyn wrote:

83 constitution

I think this number could be lower. when you run out of rounds you don't drown, its con checks until you fail 2, I think.

Since ability checks don't fail on a 1, how long would it take then? assume magic items and stuff


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Bob_Loblaw wrote:
If you read page 50 of the 1E DMG, you will see that the white dragon's speed of 12 inches translates to 4 mph for land speed and 30 inches translates to 10 mph for the flight speed. That's just their basic speed. That doesn't include "sprints" and "running."

Incidentally, I'm looking at the 1st edition (1979) DMG, and, while a 30" = 10 mph distance flight speed is given, land speed is not mentioned at all:

1e (1979) Dungeon Master's Guide, p. 50 wrote:
For the purposes of long-distance aerial travel, assume every 3" of speed equals one mile per hour. Thus, a broom of flying, with a speed of 30", can fly long distances at an average speed of 10 m.p.h.


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CWheezy wrote:
Rhedyn wrote:

83 constitution

I think this number could be lower. when you run out of rounds you don't drown, its con checks until you fail 2, I think.

Since ability checks don't fail on a 1, how long would it take then? assume magic items and stuff

That number assumes he can take 10 on those con checks.


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Kirth Gersen wrote:
Bob_Loblaw wrote:
If you read page 50 of the 1E DMG, you will see that the white dragon's speed of 12 inches translates to 4 mph for land speed and 30 inches translates to 10 mph for the flight speed. That's just their basic speed. That doesn't include "sprints" and "running."

Incidentally, I'm looking at the 1st edition (1979) DMG, and, while a 30" = 10 mph distance flight speed is given, land speed is not mentioned at all:

1e (1979) Dungeon Master's Guide, p. 50 wrote:
For the purposes of long-distance aerial travel, assume every 3" of speed equals one mile per hour. Thus, a broom of flying, with a speed of 30", can fly long distances at an average speed of 10 m.p.h.

I had forgotten to delete that when I was rewriting my original post. That being said, the original comment was about how fast the dragon could fly which is what I was commenting on.

Movement wasn't very clear in AD&D. There was a lot of wiggle room within the rules.


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Bob_Loblaw wrote:
Movement wasn't very clear in AD&D. There was a lot of wiggle room within the rules.

Nicely put! It's much more polite than "AD&D was riddled with vague hints that led nowhere, false leads, general and specific inconsistencies in what was there, and even outright contradictions."


Rhedyn wrote:
CWheezy wrote:
Rhedyn wrote:

83 constitution

I think this number could be lower. when you run out of rounds you don't drown, its con checks until you fail 2, I think.

Since ability checks don't fail on a 1, how long would it take then? assume magic items and stuff

That number assumes he can take 10 on those con checks.

I would say if you're trained in it and there's nothing else going on you could take 10 (maybe all free divers and breath holders have a feat that lets them take 10 on that check against drowning if they're not doing anything that requires movement)

Dark Archive

What i have gathered from this is people advocating for world record holders do not have feats for the skills they have focused all their lives on achieving.

If it requires a feat to achieve a world record it is to difficult... really?? come on now.

The "game" assumes averages of our world and does a decent job at mimicking things from our world. sure some things do not match up or make perfect sense but it is a game that involves magic and dragons.

Now i do agree there are far too many feats in the game, and in my home games i have condensed feat chains to not have to take up all the characters feats to achieve mastery at one maneuver and to be complete crap at everything else, this is to allow characters more options during combat instead of being pigeonholed into doing the same thing every encounter. I also like my players to feel powerful. but that is my house rule and just my dislike of feat chains in general.


Things that are too difficult: getting tired.

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