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- Surviving as a farmer. Chickens can kill you if you try to steal/get their eggs and other animals just get more dangerous.
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^Well, now I understand why Jon gets beat up by Garfield so often . . . .
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Drowning. Damn it is hard to drown. You can hold your breath for AGES
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Drowning. Damn it is hard to drown. You can hold your breath for AGES
Should be more things that can make you lose a round of breath. Maybe you need to make a concentration (or similar since that's a caster thing) check if there's something highly distracting going on else you lose a round of breath.
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Kip Up or backwards roll. Various ways you can quickly get up after being made or going prone without leaving yourself wide open to attack. It should be a standard part of the acrobatics skill.
KIp ups are in the game as either class abilities or feats...which is pretty ridiculous. Granted, you need to be in good shape, but a kip up shouldn't cost a feat.
In 3.5, the Epic Rules had Stand Up from Prone as a free action to be a Tumble check with a 35 DC. Note that you would still provoke an AoO.
==Aelryinth
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Kip ups are in the game as either class abilities or feats..Something being a feat does not negate the ability to do it with a skill roll or untrained attribute roll as well. Feats simply allow you to do things with guaranteed success instead of having to roll them. There is no reason you can't power attack with a GM determined appropriate strength check DC and no feat, same for kip ups (except acrobatics or dexterity check)
So in other words, there's no problem if you house-rule the problem away?
How insightful.
Hitting 4 people standing apart 10 feet in a straight line in 6 seconds. Even a totally frail guy like me can do it in real life, but...
Picking locks. So much more difficult than it should be, considering how easy it is to break stuff with a crowbar.
Kip ups are in the game as either class abilities or feats..Something being a feat does not negate the ability to do it with a skill roll or untrained attribute roll as well. Feats simply allow you to do things with guaranteed success instead of having to roll them. There is no reason you can't power attack with a GM determined appropriate strength check DC and no feat, same for kip ups (except acrobatics or dexterity check)So in other words, there's no problem if you house-rule the problem away?
How insightful.
No, he's saying you can't do things in the game.
I pointed out you can kip up with certain class abilities from certain archetypes, and there's a feat that can do it.
I also pointed out in 3.5, it was just a Tumble check, i.e. acrobatics.
I gave no opinion one way or the other, so why are you assigning one for me? Thank you, I have my own.
==Aelryinth
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Hitting 4 people standing apart 10 feet in a straight line in 6 seconds. Even a totally frail guy like me can do it in real life, but...
Effectively? Who are wearing armor, have skin like steel, and/or are trying to dodge/parry your strike?
Really? Flailing your arms at speed to slap someone with ineffectual touch attacks isn't BAB at work.
==Aelryinth
Picking locks. So much more difficult than it should be, considering how easy it is to break stuff with a crowbar.
Well, if you ask a pro, either you have a skeleton key and can do it really fast with simple locks, or you have other tools and it takes 5-10 minutes IF you are good at it.
But Sundering stuff has always been faster then picking it. Sets off more traps and makes a lot more noise, too!
==Aelryinth
KIp ups are in the game as either class abilities or feats...which is pretty ridiculous. Granted, you need to be in good shape, but a kip up shouldn't cost a feat.
I know of the rogue talent to do a kip up. Where is the feat?
I agree that they should be a standard part of the acrobatics. DC 35 sounds way too high for a kip up or backwards roll.
Picking locks. So much more difficult than it should be, considering how easy it is to break stuff with a crowbar.Well, if you ask a pro, either you have a skeleton key and can do it really fast with simple locks, or you have other tools and it takes 5-10 minutes IF you are good at it.
But Sundering stuff has always been faster then picking it. Sets off more traps and makes a lot more noise, too!
==Aelryinth
Ummm, no. Just no. If you want to pick locks, i.e. opening them with a set of lockpicks and not with a key that fits, you need to do it fast. A trained person using the proper technique, not caring if the lock is damaged, can open most locks very quickly. 5-10 minutes is way off and would make it completely useless. It really is just scrub, scrub, scrub, open in most cases.
Ummm, no. Just no. If you want to pick locks, i.e. opening them with a set of lockpicks and not with a key that fits, you need to do it fast. A trained person using the proper technique, not caring if the lock is damaged, can open most locks very quickly. 5-10 minutes is way off and would make it completely useless. It really is just scrub, scrub, scrub, open in most cases.Picking locks. So much more difficult than it should be, considering how easy it is to break stuff with a crowbar.Well, if you ask a pro, either you have a skeleton key and can do it really fast with simple locks, or you have other tools and it takes 5-10 minutes IF you are good at it.
But Sundering stuff has always been faster then picking it. Sets off more traps and makes a lot more noise, too!
==Aelryinth
So, you're destroying the lock, so it's just a quieter form of Sunder.
I did say Pick it, not file the thing smooth and open it. And picking a lock does take a lot more time then it shows on TV. They skip past the boring parts, I think.
==Aelryinth
Catching.
Fighting in an elevator (or some other situation where you have 2 or more people in a 5 by 5 box).
Jumping onto a larger creature.
Opening a door.
Knocking down an unattended object.
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Hitting the archer with my sword more than he shoots me with his bow. It basically consists of swordsman running up, smacking the archer once, archer steps back and puts two arrows between the swordsman's ribs, rinse and repeat. More so for ki-empowered archers such as Zen Archers and Ninjas. I mean, seriously, how do you not smash the guy with your sword more than he shoots you with his bow? Is there something I'm missing here?
Well, with Step Up, this ceases to be a thing due to AoO (especially if you have Combat Reflexes). Plus, on the 2nd turn and later you get full attacks, so he's only getting more attacks if he has more in the first place.
Still probably harder than it should be, but you asked what you were missing.
Shooting a target that is right next to you.
I get the idea of an AoO if you used a ranged attack while something is next to you, it would be reasonable to say the shooter is distracted and not paying attention to the creature next to them... unless that creature is the target. If we're being honest, not only should the ranged while threatened AoO not apply to shooting an adjacent target, there ought to be a bonus to the attack roll.
Feinting. It is easier than normal attacks and with lighter weapons will frequently get threaded into attack combos which last less than 6 seconds. And yet it is near impossible to do practically in Pathfinder.
KIp ups are in the game as either class abilities or feats...which is pretty ridiculous. Granted, you need to be in good shape, but a kip up shouldn't cost a feat.I know of the rogue talent to do a kip up. Where is the feat?
I agree that they should be a standard part of the acrobatics. DC 35 sounds way too high for a kip up or backwards roll.
Why not just make it part of the Moving Through a Threatened Space rule? It's still a Move action, but you can make an Acrobatics check vs. the CMD's of any threatening creatures. You don't provoke on any creatures whose CMD's you beat? This gives you a valuable option without removing the value of the Class skills that still reduce the action to a Swift/Free action.
It takes like 5 minutes to choke a 10th-level fighter to death.
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Determining the value of an item for the average person.
Appraise Value of Item
A DC 20 Appraise check determines the value of a common item. If you succeed by 5 or more, you also determine if the item has magic properties, although this success does not grant knowledge of the magic item’s abilities. If you fail the check by less than 5, you determine the price of that item to within 20% of its actual value. If you fail this check by 5 or more, the price is wildly inaccurate, subject to GM discretion. Particularly rare or exotic items might increase the DC of this check by 5 or more.
Notice how the rules say that the DC is higher for a rare or exotic item, but does not say that the DC is lower for a common item. In fact, the very first sentence says, "determines the value of a common item".
So, if going strictly by RAW, a Commoner with Int 10 can tell the true value of an item 5% of the time, and a wildly inaccurate value 75% of the time. Now, if this common item happened to be, say, a bottle of milk...
Conan the commoner: "How much does this bottle of milk cost?"
Bert the expert: "Make an offer."
Conan the commoner: "...Is 150gp okay?"
And this issue does not necessarily only apply to Commoners with Int 10! Even a half-elf Expert 7 merchant with Int 20 and Skill Focus (Appraise) can fail the check on a natural 1! Total bonus is +18.
The city's best appraiser can fail to tell the price of a bottle of milk. Thank god for Rule 0, GM discretion and common sense.
The locksmith who services the bank I work at would beg to differ.Ummm, no. Just no. If you want to pick locks, i.e. opening them with a set of lockpicks and not with a key that fits, you need to do it fast. A trained person using the proper technique, not caring if the lock is damaged, can open most locks very quickly. 5-10 minutes is way off and would make it completely useless. It really is just scrub, scrub, scrub, open in most cases.Picking locks. So much more difficult than it should be, considering how easy it is to break stuff with a crowbar.Well, if you ask a pro, either you have a skeleton key and can do it really fast with simple locks, or you have other tools and it takes 5-10 minutes IF you are good at it.
But Sundering stuff has always been faster then picking it. Sets off more traps and makes a lot more noise, too!
==Aelryinth
Now, now.
You're comparing the professional who installed the locks to begin with to someone who walks up off the street, takes a set of picks out of his pocket, and starts trying to open a lock.
Big difference from a guy with a full toolbox, who knows the key to begin with, and can probably pop the whole lock assembly right out of the door without a problem if he wants to, AND doesn't have to worry about triggering an alarm or poison needle trap, disturbing the guards, and what all.
==Aelryinth
RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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Interesting thread, because I think some of these issues are just fine. High jumping, for example, should be very difficult without intense training or magical aid. Normal people just don't jump 10 feet in the air straight up. And most adventurers aren't doing the Fosbury flop when they are trying to do a high jump.
It should be hard to aim and fire a bow in melee. And melee guy that wants to stop an archer should sunder the bowstring. 1 hp of damage and no full attack for Mr. archer.
Appraise for common items is still only something you roll to figure out the cost of things you don't already know. Characters still have memory. Your commoner, who has bought milk before, knows what he's paid for it in the past. Now transplant that commoner to a foreign land where they sell glorph at every street corner, delicious refreshing glorph. How much should he offer for a bottle of glorph? Or maybe it's sold in drams? A DC20 Appraise would let him pick up from clues the appropriate amount and price for some glorph. I mean, haven't you ever been at a garage or yard sale and not known if a sticker indicated a good price?
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Feinting. It is easier than normal attacks and with lighter weapons will frequently get threaded into attack combos which last less than 6 seconds. And yet it is near impossible to do practically in Pathfinder.
"normal' feints would be considered part of your BAB when doing an attack. Just like a normal thrust isn't the same as the ability to lunge in every direction and get back to your spot almost instantly, normal thrusts, parries, feints and the like are part of BAB.
A Feint maneuver is as complex as setting up a called shot in its own way, leaving an opponent basically almost fumblingly completely exposed to a full strike is actually not that easy. Given how it works, you're basically tricking him into massively overcommitting to an action without him realizing you're doing it...and then turning the tables on him. Quite cinematic, really.
==Aelryinth
From a magical standpoint:
Having a long term companion better than a familiar that isn't an animal or beast.
Your choices are being a summoner or a VMC summoner. I've been struggling or a long time with a friend who's wanted to play something similar to a Warcraft warlock and basically you be a Summoner and get the pet but the entirely wrong set of spells or a sorcerer and get the right spells but only very temporary pets.
Use the Leadership feat.
Determining the value of an item for the average person.
Appraise Value of Item
A DC 20 Appraise check determines the value of a common item. If you succeed by 5 or more, you also determine if the item has magic properties, although this success does not grant knowledge of the magic item’s abilities. If you fail the check by less than 5, you determine the price of that item to within 20% of its actual value. If you fail this check by 5 or more, the price is wildly inaccurate, subject to GM discretion. Particularly rare or exotic items might increase the DC of this check by 5 or more.
Notice how the rules say that the DC is higher for a rare or exotic item, but does not say that the DC is lower for a common item. In fact, the very first sentence says, "determines the value of a common item".
So, if going strictly by RAW, a Commoner with Int 10 can tell the true value of an item 5% of the time, and a wildly inaccurate value 75% of the time. Now, if this common item happened to be, say, a bottle of milk...
Conan the commoner: "How much does this bottle of milk cost?"
Bert the expert: "Make an offer."
[dice=Appraise]d20+0
Conan the commoner: "...Is 150gp okay?"And this issue does not necessarily only apply to Commoners with Int 10! Even a half-elf Expert 7 merchant with Int 20 and Skill Focus (Appraise) can fail the check on a natural 1! Total bonus is +18.
The city's best appraiser can fail to tell the price of a bottle of milk. Thank god for Rule 0, GM discretion and common sense.
This is most defiantly why taking 10 is a thing. The expert 7 Should never fail that check unless he's appraising antiquities at knife point under and or is under duress.
And this issue does not necessarily only apply to Commoners with Int 10! Even a half-elf Expert 7 merchant with Int 20 and Skill Focus (Appraise) can fail the check on a natural 1! Total bonus is +18.
While I agree the appraise skill is pretty worthless - auto fail on a 1 (and auto succeed on a 20) only works for combat - skill checks can succeed on a 1 and if your base skill +1 is equal to or higher than the check you don't even have to roll - anything else *is* a house rule.
Really? Flailing your arms at speed to slap someone with ineffectual touch attacks isn't BAB at work.
But that's all I've got!
Regarding striking (this is actually a thing I've discussed in the past), 50% hit rates are not uncommon when both combatants are defending against each other. Example: Conor McGregor has a 44% striking accuracy. This is a top-tier unarmed combatant against similar top-tier opponents.
Choking someone out is a victim of mechanical conflation, which occurred due to (I'm assuming) word count issues in the CRB and possibly lack of interest in developing a realistic subsystem. Granted, significant portions of the CRB is overly verbose when it could have been concise, but the issue is that attempting to choke someone out follows the suffocation rules when most chokes don't have anything to do with air. Additionally, most of those chokes would not follow the model of "0 HP, -1 HP, dead" in 3 rounds that the suffocation rules utilize. It should take 3ish minutes to kill a fighter with a choke, but that guy should be temporarily helpless at around the 3rd round of the choke, assuming everything is going right.
While I agree the appraise skill is pretty worthless - auto fail on a 1 (and auto succeed on a 20) only works for combat - skill checks can succeed on a 1 and if your base skill +1 is equal to or higher than the check you don't even have to roll - anything else *is* a house rule.
And this issue does not necessarily only apply to Commoners with Int 10! Even a half-elf Expert 7 merchant with Int 20 and Skill Focus (Appraise) can fail the check on a natural 1! Total bonus is +18.
1+18=19
For a DC 20, that's still a failure.
Missed that and totally mistook the intent - apologies :)
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Yes, the near worthless nature of firearms mixed with their senseless mechanics, mixed further with the fact they're more expensive than a lot of magic items, is just littered with "things that are harder than they should be".
Ummm, no. Just no. If you want to pick locks, i.e. opening them with a set of lockpicks and not with a key that fits, you need to do it fast. A trained person using the proper technique, not caring if the lock is damaged, can open most locks very quickly. 5-10 minutes is way off and would make it completely useless. It really is just scrub, scrub, scrub, open in most cases.Picking locks. So much more difficult than it should be, considering how easy it is to break stuff with a crowbar.Well, if you ask a pro, either you have a skeleton key and can do it really fast with simple locks, or you have other tools and it takes 5-10 minutes IF you are good at it.
But Sundering stuff has always been faster then picking it. Sets off more traps and makes a lot more noise, too!
==Aelryinth
So, you're destroying the lock, so it's just a quieter form of Sunder.
I did say Pick it, not file the thing smooth and open it. And picking a lock does take a lot more time then it shows on TV. They skip past the boring parts, I think.
==Aelryinth
Google "bump key lockpick". I have seen an untrained person with ~no experience in lockpicking pick a modern lock in about 3 seconds flat with one.
Exactly. The MIT guide to lockpicking (interesting reading) specifically states that if you do want to learn lockpicking, you need to be able to do it fast to know it at all. Not to mention that modern locks have all sorts of extra bells and whistles compared to simple medieval/renaissance locks.
Yes there are crummy locks that can be easily picked. Yes there are cool locks that only cool people can pick. Yes there are awesome locks that only awesome people taking awhile could ever pick.