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My players suprised me again today.
Always a good start for a topic, eh?
I have these villains in my game: large sized demon elves - pretty much beefed up drow with dark eldar manners.
I thought it would be cool for them to have this armor made out of liquid metal; essentially a metal elemental that is joined to them, fighting and protecting them.
So the players fight a single one of these guys, (it was a bit of a freak accident, very cool and thematic fitting with the story) - and like all PF players they instagib the poor guy before he even gets to take a turn ...
THEN the bard remembers the lore about the "living armors" and decides to dominate/bind the thing before it can react.
I rolled a 1, he rolled a 20 ...
Now I'll admit, I wasn't really planning for anybody to get their hands on these things. They were just a cool description coupled with an excuse to give a scary enemy 2 initiative slots.
But come on; when the player pulls of something impossible with some quick thinking, cool roleplaying, and lucky rolls - I like to reward it.
Now I just have to find some way of statting out this thing without making it overpowered.
My first idea is the following, using rules for making intelligent items (and I still haven't figured out how these work completely):
it's got 12 int, 16 wis, 10 or 12 cha,
it's got a alignment and goal tied to serving the elves, and they are evil dicks so ...
it's probably against anybody not of elven blood (that's all of the players btw) and sees them as unworthy , or possibly: vermin.
it can either be used as a constant Shield spell OR as a constant Haste spell (just the extra attack, none of the other modifiers)
and getting it to cooperate is a Will save vs Ego.
does this seem ok to hand to a level 11 character?
what is it's ego score?
how often do you make the Will check/what situations/intervals are cool but won't tied down the game in excess rolling?
I chose the shield/haste combo to simulate how depending on it's masters wishes it can either lash out at opponents near him, or protect him from blows
- I feel that all the liquid metal, shapechanging stuff can just be made of Handwaveium(tm) and be part of the description of how it moves.
Anybody got some ideas or insight for how to make this? I'd love to hear other versions if they make sense (was playing with the idea of just giving the player a pet elemental, but it seems like more bookkepping and bother than fun).
Look up Construct Armor in the SRD.
Be Ironman.
The constant Haste/Shield is probably going to be your trickiest issue.
I like the intelligent magic armor with an evil alignment and goals. Do the players know it's a constant effect? If not, just make it a once per day each SLA of the intelligent armor. If they do know, say, "Guys, I never expected you to get your hands on this, but that was real cool and lucky, so I'm down grading the duration."
Every time the character wants to use an ability, it has to contest wills. If the wearer tries to fight another person in the living armor, it has to contest wills or the armor prevents attacking or ground movement or forces a DC15 concentration check to cast.
A suit of +2 armor made of Mithral with Int 12, Wis 16, Cha 12, 3/day Shield, 3/day Heaste, and a special purpose has an Ego of 12, it appears.
I suspect the value modifier is higher with your living armor, and that doesn't include communication method or senses, which might increase the ego further.
A suit of +2 armor made of Mithral with Int 12, Wis 16, Cha 12, 3/day Shield, 3/day Heaste, and a special purpose has an Ego of 12, it appears.
I suspect the value modifier is higher with your living armor, and that doesn't include communication method or senses, which might increase the ego further.
I think this version is the easiest to implement in the game, although I still want to incloude the constant/toggle thing somehow
I think the combined price of the item also increases the ego as well (there was a chart ...) but not sure.
Construct Armor? hoo-boy, I think I'll stay clear for now, haven't read the rules for it.
Maybe I'm just biased but: Iron Man is cool and awesome - but he's hardly balanced (or thematicly fitting) for a "Gothic Dark Fantasy"-campaign . At least not mine I think.
The constant effect is going to have the biggest effect on price/ego... I would make sure your players know they can't sell it (might even make it some only the person who Dominated it has a chance of it working).
Haste = 120,000 gp (base, before adjusting for awesomeness)
Shield = 40,000 gap
So, roughly, your armor would have and Ego of 20 to 22. Possibly 24 if a constant haste effect was so useful it was deemed to cost 1.5 base cost or more.
The constant effect is going to have the biggest effect on price/ego... I would make sure your players know they can't sell it (might even make it some only the person who Dominated it has a chance of it working).
Haste = 120,000 gp (base, before adjusting for awesomeness)
Shield = 40,000 gapSo, roughly, your armor would have and Ego of 20 to 22. Possibly 24 if a constant haste effect was so useful it was deemed to cost 1.5 base cost or more.
I like your idea, I'm going to run with it - When the armor bonds, it's for life (i've already teased this in game)
I'm also going to allow the armor to take any form wished by the wearer (meaning in game terms that it can have the stats of any metal armor)we use automatic bonus progression from unchained so it doesn't need any "+"-es, also he's a buffer bard with miniscule combat stats so letting him choose freely is fine, it's not going to be overpowered.
Adding that will pump the Ego/will DC to 24 I'm guessing? or more?
Summary:
Symbiot Armor
stats: same as any mithril metal armor (nonmagical)
Constant effect, can be toggled ... once per round ? at will ? (want to avoid somebody ruleslawyering to use both effects after each other):
either Haste -only the extra attack action, non-stackable ?
or Shield
cost: hell if I know ...
Don't toggle at will or they can do exactly what you don't want them to do.
Have it take an action. Traditional would be 1 standard action.
Move action would allow them to attack at +1 to hit from haste then switch to shield.
Swift action would be the same as at will.
Each intelligent item should possess at least one power, although more powerful items might possess a host of powers. To find the item's specific powers, choose or roll on Table: Intelligent Item Powers. All powers function at the direction of the item, although intelligent items generally follow the wishes of their owner. Activating a power or concentrating on an active one is a standard action the item takes. The caster level for these effects is equal to the item's caster level. Save DCs are based off the item's highest mental ability score.
(my highlight)
Seems like this activation conundrum already had a nice solution.
And LuxuriantOak, I'm loving this idea.
Intelligent item are constructs and therefore immune to mind-affecting effects... So it is impossible to dominate. Reward the cool factor by letting him wear it for a while but just tell him that he doesn't know how to use it the way they do. In reality it is letting him wear it for some scheme of its own.
Instead of trying to match it to what the evil elves have just give him some reasonable bonuses from it. Once in a while (when it suits you) have it make an extra attack or block something or whatever. Remember that it's really just doing whatever it wants since it isn't actually dominated, so you can be fairly arbitrary about when it does/grants what.
Eventually it either gets bored or finds the opportunity it's been waiting for and the party has to fight it (either in its 'natural' form or with the bard still trapped inside).
Intelligent item are constructs and therefore immune to mind-affecting effects... So it is impossible to dominate. Reward the cool factor by letting him wear it for a while but just tell him that he doesn't know how to use it the way they do. In reality it is letting him wear it for some scheme of its own.
Instead of trying to match it to what the evil elves have just give him some reasonable bonuses from it. Once in a while (when it suits you) have it make an extra attack or block something or whatever. Remember that it's really just doing whatever it wants since it isn't actually dominated, so you can be fairly arbitrary about when it does/grants what.
Eventually it either gets bored or finds the opportunity it's been waiting for and the party has to fight it (either in its 'natural' form or with the bard still trapped inside).
I understand what you're getting at and I will use some of these ideas to roleplay out the back and foth clash of wills between the Pc and the suit.
And yes, while the evil elves are utter B*****ds, the suit is merely pragmatic or neutral - it's moral compass is more self-focused, mainly based on pride in it's abilities and it's position. (depending on it's wearer)... and it comes from a world where humans are considered less than dogs mostly, so it has some issues with it's current situation.
I'm still going to let the Dominate stand (if I remember it was "Dominate Person", so I know I am already far out in GM Fiat/Homebrew -land, and I'm fine with it).
Anyways, the whole purpose of this discussion is how to convert what is technically a metal elemental into a form of item that fits my game.
PFsrd wrote:Each intelligent item should possess at least one power, although more powerful items might possess a host of powers. To find the item's specific powers, choose or roll on Table: Intelligent Item Powers. All powers function at the direction of the item, although intelligent items generally follow the wishes of their owner. Activating a power or concentrating on an active one is a standard action the item takes. The caster level for these effects is equal to the item's caster level. Save DCs are based off the item's highest mental ability score.
(my highlight)
Seems like this activation conundrum already had a nice solution.
And LuxuriantOak, I'm loving this idea.
I didn't quite understand the bit you highlited (I'm at work so focus is stretched) can you explain it for me?
Also, thanks. :)
He's saying that by the default rules of intelligent magic items, using a special power is a standard action.
As living metal, it could also staunch bleed effects.
As a bonded being, maybe it can slowly change the wearer into an elf, and it plans to do so.
It could have the vicious enchant, but as armor, and not affect elves. Thus, any non-elf hitting it takes some extra damage, but a non-elf wearer takes half. You could limit it to non-weapon hits to allow you to retcon it in.
In the later Bubblegum Crisis episodes, they have liquid armor that is semi-sentient.
/cevah
As living metal, it could also staunch bleed effects.
As a bonded being, maybe it can slowly change the wearer into an elf, and it plans to do so.
It could have the vicious enchant, but as armor, and not affect elves. Thus, any non-elf hitting it takes some extra damage, but a non-elf wearer takes half. You could limit it to non-weapon hits to allow you to retcon it in.
In the later Bubblegum Crisis episodes, they have liquid armor that is semi-sentient.
/cevah
Those are some cool ideas!
Maybe I can add them later, using the leveling item rules - to represent how he can do more with it (or it helps him more) as their relationship grows ...