Can NG Wizards cast evil spells or summon evil creatures?


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Prior to Ultimate Intrigue there was nothing. Evil was merely a descriptor like any other.

UI shoved a mention in the weirdest place imaginable.

Quote:
A gray paladin must be of lawful good, lawful neutral, or neutral good alignment and loses all class features except proficiencies if she ever willingly commits an evil act (for example, casting a spell with the evil descriptor)

Silver Crusade

There was nothing for the most part because it was assumed to be common sense. [Evil] = Evil.

Ultimate Intrigue clarified that, yes, casting aligned spells is an aligned act.

Grand Lodge

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And assumptions about rules make for poor discussions.

Silver Crusade

This whole thread has been a poor discussion.

How can [Evil] =/= Evil???


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Well, one has those square brackets and the other one does not, for starters. And in addition, you really should take a look at that slavery thread going around. I hear they're about to crack the mystery behind good and evil in there.


Rysky wrote:
graystone wrote:
"DM_Blake wrote:
The fact that good clerics cannot cast an evil spell PROVES that the spell is evil.
All that does is prove that good deities don't grant it not that it's an evil act to cast it.
If Good deities don't grant there's a reason for that.

The non-competition clause of the interplanar worshipping act of 10012241.

One of the worst clauses the supposed "good" aligned deities put in there (right next to the channeling energy clauses they forced in).


Rysky wrote:

This whole thread has been a poor discussion.

How can [Evil] =/= Evil???

void main()

{
Evil == 0;
For (Evil == 1; Evil < 10; Evil++){
printf "EVIL! %d", Evil;}
printf "Evil! %d", Evil;
}

Evil =/= Evil

It's all about scope


Just a Mort wrote:

So if you run into a dominated good creature, you can't cast protection from good to protect yourself? If you need a lock picked, you're not allowed to summon babau demons?

Id say no to planar binding, necromancy line stuff, but a little summoning shouldn't come amiss.

If you're running a GOOD aligned caster, evil spells should be acts of last resort, not your standard go-to procedures.

Grand Lodge

Rysky wrote:
How can [Evil] =/= Evil???

Because the rules did not outline [Evil] properly.

Silver Crusade

TriOmegaZero wrote:
Rysky wrote:
How can [Evil] =/= Evil???
Because the rules did not outline [Evil] properly.

?

Grand Lodge

The rules did not state what acts were evil. So it was up to GMs to figure that out. Now there has been a specific callout for [Evil] spells. Before that, the descriptor did not say.


I think most people knew it, but many do not like it since they hate how the spell descriptors work. It is one of those things Paizo needs to specifically say just to kill the topic so it stops coming up. If they can't errata the core rule book without pushing text off the page then just drop an FAQ.


wraithstrike wrote:
I think most people knew it, but many do not like it since they hate how the spell descriptors work. It is one of those things Paizo needs to specifically say just to kill the topic so it stops coming up. If they can't errata the core rule book without pushing text off the page then just drop an FAQ.

I can not conceive of anything that anyone would say that would stop this horse from resurrecting itself.

Silver Crusade

TriOmegaZero wrote:
The rules did not state what acts were evil. So it was up to GMs to figure that out. Now there has been a specific callout for [Evil] spells. Before that, the descriptor did not say.

I guess I was just odd then in that things with an [Evil] tag being Evil aligned seemed plain as day to me before it was outright clarified.

Grand Lodge

There is a difference between what the rules imply and what the rules say. I never said it was an unreasonable assumption.

Silver Crusade

TriOmegaZero wrote:
There is a difference between what the rules imply and what the rules say. I never said it was an unreasonable assumption.

Ah, Okies.

Liberty's Edge

OP: Just cast some spells with the good descriptor like celestial healing, prot from evil, or summoning good things. It should counteract the evil descriptor.

Although, you should probably be some neutral alignment on the good--evil scale to do this. Neutral alignments seem to fit better with the balancing act of alternating good and evil descriptor spells.


Paizo could start by making Celestial Healing approximately equal to Infernal Healing. Why have the one level 1 spell 20 levels harder to use than the other? Are sorcerers just that much better at tapping demon blood vs. good vibes?

Or is Eschew Materials [default feat for Sorcerer] supposed to render Infernal Healing effectively neutral (as you wouldn't need the demon's blood, or do I misunderstand that feat)?

[That's the most logical conclusion I can draw from the FAQ on Infernal Healing linked earlier in this thread]

Edit: and yes, I know the thread title is regarding Wizards, but Sorcerer is just as interesting.


[Evil] = Evil I don't have a problem with, it's the baggage that comes with it that I dislike.

By making descriptors affect alignment you take any meaning out of the action itself. The nature of the spell becomes more important than the spell itself and how you use it.

And if the very act of casting a spell is an aligned act it has to be equal across the board, because the casting of the spell is more important than what you use it for. There is no rule that allows you to treat them differently.

Law of unintended consequences - this rule does not just apply to [evil] spells. Casting protection from law should not make you more chaotic, but apparently it does.

Casting [good] spells in my game will not make you good. I cannot see any reasonable justification for treating evil spells differently.


Rysky wrote:

This whole thread has been a poor discussion.

How can [Evil] =/= Evil???

The same way beings of [Evil] have become neutral and even good aligned?

Silver Crusade

deuxhero wrote:
Rysky wrote:

This whole thread has been a poor discussion.

How can [Evil] =/= Evil???

The same way beings of [Evil] have become neutral and even good aligned?

That doesn't have anything to do with what I said.

... Unless you're of the opinion that creatures keep their Evil subtype if they change their alignment. Which in Pathfinder they do not.

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