RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32
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So, just finished reading this, and I have to say, I rather enjoy it. I look forward to running it soon. I do have one concern, however - how often can a PC use the Flask of Reconcoction between scenarios? There is an indeterminate amount of time between scenarios, so is it limited to once between scenarios? Once every actual week? Any input?
Second, it is only mentioned briefly, but the scenario references Tseka's body double, but seems to behave as if you actually are fighting Tseka. Does anybody have any ideas there?
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I played this one yesterday in high tier. Had me playing my Fighter(Two-Handed)/Inquisitor(Sanctified Slayer)/Ranger(Trapper) 5, an archer with a level of diviner, a ranged based arcane Vigilante, a pre-gen shaman, a dex based monk, and a dragon disciple sorcerer.
We had fun going through it, the role-play was good, and the combats were fun, but one thing I noticed was that the GM had had a hard time keeping up with all of the archetypes and prestige classes the enemies had.
Beyond that I think the only odd thing was the one note found, which was based on scent based perception and an understanding of the deepfolk language. Luckily we had the right party make-up and resources to decipher it, but I can see where others could have problems with that.
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The Guide says:
Additionally, any magic items whose usage frequencies are less than 1/day (such as 1/week or 1/month and so on) are considered to have the frequency of 1/scenario....which I guess would apply to downtime too?
Technically you can use it all you want during a scenario, but it doesn't really matter. It remakes the potion only if you drink it, so you'll never have more potions than what you started with. So you can drink that potion of bull's strength all you want during downtime - not really going to help you once the scenario starts again.
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Technically you can use it all you want during a scenario, but it doesn't really matter. It remakes the potion only if you drink it, so you'll never have more potions than what you started with. So you can drink that potion of bull's strength all you want during downtime - not really going to help you once the scenario starts again.The Guide says:
Additionally, any magic items whose usage frequencies are less than 1/day (such as 1/week or 1/month and so on) are considered to have the frequency of 1/scenario....which I guess would apply to downtime too?
As I didn't see it specifically called out in the item's description, I have a feeling that there are people who will think they can alchemical allocation the contents into an empty vial, thus creating effectively infinite amounts of the same potion (and in an indeterminable downtime one could potentially exploit this greatly). I do understand that the allocated potions cannot be sold for value, however they allow for surplus potions of a potentially useful sort (CSW, Fly, Bull's Strength, Enlarge Person, etc.).
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As I didn't see it specifically called out in the item's description, I have a feeling that there are people who will think they can alchemical allocation the contents into an empty vial, thus creating effectively infinite amounts of the same potion (and in an indeterminable downtime one could potentially exploit this greatly). I do understand that the allocated potions cannot be sold for value, however they allow for surplus potions of a potentially useful sort (CSW, Fly, Bull's Strength, Enlarge Person, etc.).Technically you can use it all you want during a scenario, but it doesn't really matter. It remakes the potion only if you drink it, so you'll never have more potions than what you started with. So you can drink that potion of bull's strength all you want during downtime - not really going to help you once the scenario starts again.The Guide says:
Additionally, any magic items whose usage frequencies are less than 1/day (such as 1/week or 1/month and so on) are considered to have the frequency of 1/scenario....which I guess would apply to downtime too?
Alch alloc specifically indicates that you have to spit it back into its container, not another container.
you can spit it back into its container as a free action.
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32
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As I didn't see it specifically called out in the item's description, I have a feeling that there are people who will think they can alchemical allocation the contents into an empty vial, thus creating effectively infinite amounts of the same potion (and in an indeterminable downtime one could potentially exploit this greatly). I do understand that the allocated potions cannot be sold for value, however they allow for surplus potions of a potentially useful sort (CSW, Fly, Bull's Strength, Enlarge Person, etc.).Technically you can use it all you want during a scenario, but it doesn't really matter. It remakes the potion only if you drink it, so you'll never have more potions than what you started with. So you can drink that potion of bull's strength all you want during downtime - not really going to help you once the scenario starts again.The Guide says:
Additionally, any magic items whose usage frequencies are less than 1/day (such as 1/week or 1/month and so on) are considered to have the frequency of 1/scenario....which I guess would apply to downtime too?Alch alloc specifically indicates that you have to spit it back into its container, not another container.
you can spit it back into its container as a free action.
Certainly, but it doesn't indicate in the text that the item behaves according to the rules of alchemical allocation. While it is used in the creation of the item, items don't always follow the rules of the source spells. The item's text does not indicate that the potion must be drunk from the flask.
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This discussion should probably move to another thread. However, it does say that:Certainly, but it doesn't indicate in the text that the item behaves according to the rules of alchemical allocation. While it is used in the creation of the item, items don't always follow the rules of the source spells. The item's text does not indicate that the potion must be drunk from the flask.As I didn't see it specifically called out in the item's description, I have a feeling that there are people who will think they can alchemical allocation the contents into an empty vial, thus creating effectively infinite amounts of the same potion (and in an indeterminable downtime one could potentially exploit this greatly). I do understand that the allocated potions cannot be sold for value, however they allow for surplus potions of a potentially useful sort (CSW, Fly, Bull's Strength, Enlarge Person, etc.).Technically you can use it all you want during a scenario, but it doesn't really matter. It remakes the potion only if you drink it, so you'll never have more potions than what you started with. So you can drink that potion of bull's strength all you want during downtime - not really going to help you once the scenario starts again.The Guide says:
Additionally, any magic items whose usage frequencies are less than 1/day (such as 1/week or 1/month and so on) are considered to have the frequency of 1/scenario....which I guess would apply to downtime too?Alch alloc specifically indicates that you have to spit it back into its container, not another container.
you can spit it back into its container as a free action.
If a potion in the flask is poured out of the flask, rather than drunk directly from it, the flask does not reconcoct that potion.
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Second, it is only mentioned briefly, but the scenario references Tseka's body double, but seems to behave as if you actually are fighting Tseka. Does anybody have any ideas there?
Good evening Andrew!
My name is Nathan King and I'm the author of 7-15. I wanted to pop in and see if I could offer some insight in your second question regarding Tseka's body double.
(I would like to preface my comments with the statement that my comments are just my opinion and are not the end-all-be-all; any offical ruling would need to come from John or Linda. As well, I will be spoiler tagging my comments as I feel it is pretty revealing of the last encounter.
With that out of the way, I'm confused about your comment regarding Tseka's body double. On page 21 of the scenario, under the bolded "Creatures" section, it begins talking about the tactics of the body double as well as Tseka.
... Trusting in the fact that few have seen her true face, she [Tseka] hides in the shadows and orders one of her subordinates to pretend to be her. In Subtier 3–4, the fake Tseka is a ratfolk scoundrel, and in Subtier 6 –7, she is a ratfolk sentinel.
As the PCs enter the chamber, the false Tseka addresses the PCs from atop the stage in the southeast corner of the room. Meanwhile, the real Tseka hides in the shadows behind one of the room’s pillars (in Subtier 6 –7, her shadow Despair lurks in the square just below her).
The false Tseka proposes a trade: their traitor Makino for her freedom. The real Tseka has no intention of giving Makino to the PCs, but she wishes to gauge the PC’s interest in their former comrade, so she told her body double that she plans to make this trade.
...With her bargaining chip gone, the fake Tseka chuckles and tells the PCs she’ll kill them like her agents did the PCs’ fellows at the Grand Lodge.
I have quoted the bulk of the tactics that the body double should use before combat erupts. Regarding the in-combat tactics, each of the creatures have their tactics listed in their statblocks, including what Tseka will be doing in combat.
If I have missed answering your question, please let me know as I am available to answer any questions you might have as best I can. I want to make sure that you are able to provide the best experience for your players!
Cheers!
Nathan King
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Another question about loot. The previous Serpent's Rise scenarios provided a method of purchasing the item for cheaper if you had played the character. There is no such option of Marnarius' blade. Should there have been?
I suspect this isn't a Serpent's Rise scenario. It wasn't directly mentioned in the blurb, and as you said, it didn't follow the standard custom magic item for 8,000 format. Of course, I have a horse in the race since I played Marnarius.
Developer
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Another question about loot. The previous Serpent's Rise scenarios provided a method of purchasing the item for cheaper if you had played the character. There is no such option of Marnarius' blade. Should there have been?I suspect this isn't a Serpent's Rise scenario. It wasn't directly mentioned in the blurb, and as you said, it didn't follow the standard custom magic item for 8,000 format. Of course, I have a horse in the race since I played Marnarius.
That's a mistake on my part when I wrote up the product page. This is absolutely a Serpent's Rise-related scenario.
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Another question about loot. The previous Serpent's Rise scenarios provided a method of purchasing the item for cheaper if you had played the character. There is no such option of Marnarius' blade. Should there have been?
As an add-on to this question - should GMs cross off the blade from the all tiers section of the chronicle sheet for players who do not bring a Marnarius' "Spoils of the Siege" boon to the table?
(Previous "Spoils of the Siege" boons have unlocked those items for those players only, whereas this scenario has the item on the chronicle sheet itself?)
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As an add-on to this question - should GMs cross off the blade from the all tiers section of the chronicle sheet for players who do not bring a Marnarius' "Spoils of the Siege" boon to the table?
Yes. The chronicle itself does not specify, but it refers the GM to the sidebar on page 21 of the scenario...
Only players who played as Marnarius in Serpent's Rise earn the boon. The initial text just tells you that at least someone at the table has to have said boon otherwise Tseka does not have the blade at all.
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The Lesser Sword of Subtlety is very confusing. First, if I read the item correctly, it's a +1 shortsword that becomes a +2 when sneak attacking. But it costs 9,310gp. A +2 shortsword would be 8,310 and would be +2 on every attack. Not just sneak attacks. The construction cost is also listed at 13,500.
Is it meant to be an additional +2 when sneak attacking? So a total of +3?
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It's not an issue of it not being in line with the normal sword. It's that the way the item reads, it's only a +2 total bonus when you're sneak attacking, but it's more expensive than a regular +2 weapon that would be +2 all the time.
I'll just assume it's meant to be an additional +2 for a total of +3. That's the only thing that makes sense. I think it's doubtful the table I'm running will have someone who played Serpent's Rise with Marnarius. If that does happen, though, I just want to make sure I run things correctly and can explain the item to them.
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Hey there Ferious Thune! My name is Nathan King and I am the author of 7-15. Hopefully, I'll be able to answer your question about the item in question below. (I am going to spoiler my comments as I feel it could be a spoiler to some players who qualify to unlock this.)
"The Lesser Sword of Subtlety is very confusing. First, if I read the item correctly, it's a +1 shortsword that becomes a +2 when sneak attacking. But it costs 9,310gp...."
This is not actually true. The lesser sword of subtley is a +1 short sword that grants a +2 bonus to attack and damage rolls while sneak attacking that stacks with the sword's enhancement modifier. An example would be if a PC (who had the sneak attack class ability) had a +3 to hit without this weapon, would now have a +4 to hit when they acquire this weapon (+6 to hit if sneak attacking, not counting flanking or any other modifiers that the PC might have had at that moment).
"...The construction cost is also listed at 13,500...."
This is because the construction cost is for the standard version of this weapon.
I hope I answered your question!
Nathan
(P.S - My comments are not the end-all-be-all. This is just my interpretation of the item in question and you would want to refer to John or Linda for any final thoughts on your question.
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Thank you Nathan! That's how I suspected it was meant to work, and is much more useful. The base item is worded similarly. So I suppose that means the normal one grants a total of +5 when sneak attacking.
Tseka is meant to have the weapon and be able to use it against the PCs if there is a player in the group who qualifies for the item, correct? So in high tier, her sneak attacks would look like:
Assuming she's using that instead of the virulent shortsword. Correct?
EDIT: And a question about Despair. Despair is a Summoned creature, correct? Even though it's a long duration? So it would be subject to the restrictions set forth by Protection from Evil or Magic Circle Against Evil on natural attacks from summoned evil creatures?
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Venture-Captain, Michigan—Mt. Pleasant
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Huh, I thought someone would have asked already. The Flask description on the chronicle is missing the line from the item in PU "6th Level: The flask takes only 1 day to reconcoct a 1st-level potion, rather than 1 week." I'm hoping that was just an editing mistake, right?
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Thank you Nathan! That's how I suspected it was meant to work, and is much more useful. The base item is worded similarly. So I suppose that means the normal one grants a total of +5 when sneak attacking.
Tseka is meant to have the weapon and be able to use it against the PCs if there is a player in the group who qualifies for the item, correct? So in high tier, her sneak attacks would look like:
** spoiler omitted **
Assuming she's using that instead of the virulent shortsword. Correct?
EDIT: And a question about Despair. Despair is a Summoned creature, correct? Even though it's a long duration? So it would be subject to the restrictions set forth by Protection from Evil or Magic Circle Against Evil on natural attacks from summoned evil creatures?
I'm not quite sure how the ruling would go for Despair, since its presence is via the Shadowdancer's class feature:
If a shadow companion is destroyed, or the shadowdancer chooses to dismiss it, the shadowdancer must attempt a DC 15 Fortitude save. If the saving throw fails, the shadowdancer gains one permanent negative level. A successful saving throw avoids this negative level. A destroyed or dismissed shadow companion cannot be replaced for 30 days."
If I had to rule it I'd say that Despair doesn't count as a "summoned" creature, since those only come from the Summon Monster X spells, but I also think it would be completely fair to rule it the other way. It doesn't seem very clear.
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The word "summon" appears twice in the text that you quoted, and it is even called a "summoned Shadow" in the description. It didn't come up when I ran it, as no one had protection from evil going. I had Magic Circle going when I played it, but wasn't sure about the ability.
My understanding has always been that a summoned creature is one that is present only in a representative form, and when killed, is returned to its home plane and can be summoned again later. But a called creature or one that planar travels is actually present on the material plane (or wherever the scenario is taking place) and can be killed for good. I don't know how that works with Shadowdancer, but what you've quoted makes me believe it is a summoned creature, since that's the terminology that is used. There are many ways to summon creatures other than the Summon Monster spells. An evil Eidolon, for example, I would assume would be subject to Protection from Evil/Magic Circle versus Evil's protection against summoned creatures. You can't actually kill it. Just send it home. The protections spells and spells like Dismissal are part of the balancing of that.
I likely would have let it work, because there a few ways for the PCs to protect themselves against an incorporeal creature. Anti-incorporeal Shell would definitely work, but I doubt many players even know that exists.
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Hmm, perhaps you're right. What trips me up about the description is that it calls it a "shadow companion", and mentions that if it is killed or dismissed then it has to be "replaced", which I took to mean that it was a specific shadow that is unmade when killed or dismissed. It appears to work more like an animal companion than a summoned creature, but your reasoning is sound. In any case, when I ran it Tseka actually went into -hp because of the negative level she gained when Despair was killed. Lucky for the PCs, since they then were able to bring her back alive; up to that point they seemed to not care much for the "bring back alive" instructions!
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Yeah, the second half of it, that when the companion is killed, it's killed, is why I'm not sure. It may just be that they chose the wrong language when they wrote up the ability, and it's meant to be called, not summoned. Without something clearer, I'm just not comfortable denying the PCs the tactic of using Protection from Evil against a creature that can kill a large portion of characters (anyone with a 12 or less strength) in two rounds.
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I'm not quite sure how the ruling would go for Despair, since its presence is via the Shadowdancer's class feature...
Actually protection from evil will not work in this case because the shadow is not actually evil. The stat block shows an alignment of CE, but according to the summon shadow ability, its alignment matches that of the 'dancer, in this case, N.
Now, it could be that Tseka is supposed to be CE, but without clarification, I would err on the side of the shadow's alignment being the same as the 'dancer rather than vice versa. Of course you could always site the RAW rules and play the shadow as the stat block says.Another small error is with "Doctor" Yekai. His stat block shows SLA, presumable based on his Shadow Magic racial ability. However, that requires a Charisma of at least 11 and he only has a 10 at both tiers. Personally, I strike them from the stat block to be rules compliant, but in reality, I doubt he'll use them. Either way, its a minor issue.
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Developer
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Huh, I thought someone would have asked already. The Flask description on the chronicle is missing the line from the item in PU "6th Level: The flask takes only 1 day to reconcoct a 1st-level potion, rather than 1 week." I'm hoping that was just an editing mistake, right?
That was indeed an error. The item should be the same as the flask of reconcoction on page 172 of Pathfinder Unchained, except that its base cost is 300 gp rather than 2,650 gp. Players and GMs are free to use the text from Pathfinder Unchained instead.
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Venture-Captain, Michigan—Mt. Pleasant
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Huh, I thought someone would have asked already. The Flask description on the chronicle is missing the line from the item in PU "6th Level: The flask takes only 1 day to reconcoct a 1st-level potion, rather than 1 week." I'm hoping that was just an editing mistake, right?That was indeed an error. The item should be the same as the flask of reconcoction on page 172 of Pathfinder Unchained, except that its base cost is 300 gp rather than 2,650 gp. Players and GMs are free to use the text from Pathfinder Unchained instead.
Thanks Linda!
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I had the same concern while preparing and running this (I have run it twice thus far, both subtier 6-7, one with the four-player adjustment, the other at full).
I will say that most groups will have difficulty making the 2nd round of Disguise checks when they arrive at the Aspis base. Unless you have a group of well-prepared PCs, it is unlikely that more than half will make the elevated DC.
However, if that were to occur, the adventure does not really cover what happens next.
After giving it some thought, here's my recommendation:
Tseka is half-expecting Pathfinders to show up (as per the description in Area B9). Thus she will assume the worst of any supposed traders coming to meet her out of the blue.
Thus if the PCs convince the guards in B1 of their cover story, have the guards send a runner to Tseka by relaying a message via Yekai in B8. She will return with instructions to let the PCs make themselves comfortable in B2 until she is ready to meet with them. Then she lets them cool their heels, and see what they decide to do.
If the PCs go along with this, they get the pleasant experience of spending a night "resting" in the old temple of Lamashtu. There's a good chance they'll try to surreptitiously explore the lair once they've settled in; if so, proceed with the scenario encounters normally.
If after a day or two the PCs still haven't budged, Tseka sends in her body-double speaker to talk business with them and try to hammer out a deal, inspecting merchandise and listening to their offer. You can use the guards in B1 and the fake Tseka in B9 to handle this (with another round of Bluff/Disguise possibly). As long as the PCs stick with their ruse, Tseka is willing to go along with it, hammering out a trade agreement if need be through her intermediary, then sending them on their way.
Because the PCs are on a mission, sooner or later they'll break cover. When they do, only a few Aspis minions will be inconvenienced.
What I would avoid doing (if they talk their way past B1) is to take them directly to B9 and have them speak with Tseka directly, since this runs the likelihood of a TPK with most of the lair on hand to engage the PCs.
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If the PCs trick their way past the guards at the front, the GM has some flexibility in how to proceed, specifically in terms of how the guards behave. In general, if the PCs trick their way past the guards, they shouldn't have to fight the guards in combat. When I ran this scenario, the PCs convinced the guards that they had important business with Tseka. The guards stayed at their posts but described how to get to Tseka's room. When combat broke out deeper in the complex, the guards weighed the risk of retribution for letting the PCs stroll past them against their questionable loyalty to Tseka and fled.
The rest of the encounters in the complex have specific provisions to prevent combining into one massive terror.
If Yekai joins Tseka's encounter, he does so in a way that encourages the PCs to face him separately first, and that prevents the full force of both encounters from hitting at once.
The Myceloid doesn't join a fight with Tseka or Yekai.
It's worth noting that no matter how good the PCs are at tricking people, Tseka doesn't fall for their schemes. Whether she would pretend to or not, well, that's a different story.
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Couple of other observations from my sessions:
1. If your time is limited, be ready to provide more guidance at the outset of the scenario. In both games I ran, it took the group about 10-15 minutes of talking over their cover story and disguises before realizing they didn't actually know how to get to Undermarket. I recommend in the mission briefing, having Amara Li specifically tell the PCs that their first step should be to locate an entrance to Undermarket, since she does not know one herself.
2. For the optional encounter, it recommends only running it if more than two hours remain. I would bump that up to 2-1/2 or even 3 hours, unless the PCs have already fought Yekai and/or Tseka. (I will say that the optional encounter really did a number on my second running of the scenario, with all the ability damage, and they only had one scroll of lesser restoration between them.)
3. When drawing the map for Tseka's lair, I'd make the pillars a little thicker than they appear on the map, since otherwise it seems unlikely that Tseka could hide behind one.
4. The triggering conditions for the pit in Yekai's chamber are not described in detail. I decided that since Yekai designed the trap, he would set it so that it would require a greater total amount of weight than his own (say, 150 pounds) to trigger it. That allows him to be able to actually enter and leave the chamber without triggering his own trap, and aids in his hit-and-run tactics. (By the way, the combination of a pit, 1-2 guardian beasts, and a bomb-throwing alchemist is a nasty combination.)
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I had the higher level guard escort them to the door, knocking and communicating their arrival. In hindsight, probably should have had one of the weaker guards be the escort and count that one towards the number hiding in the room with Tseka. The body-double unbarred the door and proceeded to negotiate, until the party indicated they saw through the ruse. Then Tseka emerged from hiding to continue negotiations. The party was able to keep up the bluff the entire time, and got a surprise round on the enemy. The sounds of combat brought Yekai to try and draw them off, but they just shut the door after he hit and ran. After dealing with everyone in the war room, they followed the tunnel to Yekai's room and engaged there. I used his expeditious retreat speed to easily clear the pit with Acrobatics and lead the party to chase after and fall in. Over all, it went fairly well once I figured out how to handle it. The optional encounter was skipped due to time. I'll definitely remember Damien's alternative to leading them all the way in next time, and point my local GM to this thread to help his prep for this weekend.
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I will be running this scenario in a few days and I have a couple questions:
A PC who succeeds at a DC 20 Perception check locates a secret door in the south wall, as well as the secret door at the other end of the short tunnel that opens into the corridor outside of area B7.
This references two secret doors; I only see one (that opens into the corridor outside of area B7). Help?
Makino stands in the square next to the secret door in the north wall
I only see secret doors in the south and east walls. Help?
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Since this is specifically the thread for the scenario, I'm not gonna bother with spoilers.
There are seven secret doors in total as I understand it. The first two are at eaither end of the short corridor between B5 and the hallway outside of B7. Another pair of secret doors flank the short corridor linking B5 to B8. There is a secret door concealing each of the narrow tunnels in B9. And finally, there is a secret door under the raised stage in B9.
Sorry for raising this thread after almost two years, but do GM's have access to the unique weapon that was spoilered above even if none of the players played the correct pregen in Serpent's Rise? I know the chronicle sheet GM's receive isn't dependent on player success, but this seems to be a unique situation.
EDIT: Similarly, what happens if the GM has the appropriate chronicle, but none of the players do?
That's what I suspected, I'll roll with that unless notified otherwise! It would make sense then that the GM having the chronicle shouldn't effect the players either.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
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In almost all cases what the players do and what the GM gets are kept entirely separate. The GM has no undue incentive to give things too easily to players / is not screwed if the players are incompetent. But, also doesn't profit from players having something he hasn't.
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Regarding the discussion above of the Flask of Reconcoction on the chronicle in this scenario:
If your players ask you if it's worth it to buy it or not, you can explain to them that it is similarly-priced to an equivalent Pearl of Power or Boro Bead, except that anyone can use it and put in any potion.
Pearl of Power/Boro Bead: 9000gp to recall a 3rd-level spell you previously learned once/day (limited to any spell known and class lists, etc.)
14th Level Bauble Price (max capability of the FoC): 9250gp to use any 3rd level potion once/day (usable by anyone, but only for potions)
It pays for itself after 12-13 uses at it's maximum price. And, because it scales in price and capability, it's useful at lower levels. For example, it's a daily 2nd level potion at 10th for 3100gp @ 300gp/potion (cost recovery in 11-12 uses, adding in the potion cost).
If you're an upper-level alchemist, you might get the most utility out of a Boro Bead because you already have Alchemical Allocation to reuse any 3rd-level potions, for example (@750gp/2PP). But, to gain out-of-class access, or for non-spell classes, it could be a great item offering the unobtainable - like a fighter who wants daily Heroism, Fly or Cure Serious Wounds; or a rogue or cleric who wants Displacement or Burrow to move around the battlefield more stealthily or safely; or for a reusable Barkskin at 8th-10th (~3.4K for the FoC 30-minute version and a free neck slot vs. 8K for an always-on +2 Amulet of Natural Armor)...or maybe even to get a Gaseous Form to sneak into the Decemvirate's hidden cranberry farm deep within the heart of the River Kingdoms.
Anyway, if your players ask, maybe the above will help. It definitely has some cool and cost-effective uses to get something a PC might not ordinarily have or to otherwise help with certain types of resource management.