What Happens When You Attack into a Spell Effect Area?

[Aluvial]

I'm curious if a creature is affected by a spell effect, if it is standing in a square right outside of the spell effect, but is attacking another creature standing right inside of the effect.

I have a few cases to discuss.

Wall of Fire is first. It has an emanation effect. If you are adjacent to a square that is just outside of the 20' of heat, and attack someone who is in the heat, do you take damage when you "reach in" to attack them in their square?

Glitterdust is the big culprit. If you are standing right outside of the glitterdust effect, which is an ongoing area, and attack someone inside of the area you are adjacent too, do you have to save vs. blindness? If you were invisible, and attack someone adjacent to you, inside of the area of effect, do you become visible?

Grease, I would assume that if you are adjacent to a character in the Grease spell, and attack them, you are not affected by the spell effect, because logic dictates that the grease effect is a plane on the ground (2d).

Bloodmist. If you attack an adjacent creature who is currently in the red algae cloud, are you entering the cloud and have to make a save?

I could give more examples, and am most interested in an official rule on this, preferably in one of the books.

I've always played that if you are attacking into an area of a spell effect, then that spell affects you as if you were positioned within the spell. Am I wrong?

[Mischief Mondragon]

No. Attacking into a spell effect is not the same as entering it. Also, Glitterdust is not an ongoing effect, you can freely enter the area. The ongoing part is only for those individuals in the initial blast.

For example the text in Grease states " A creature can walk within or through the area of grease at half normal speed with a DC 10 Acrobatics check". Notice walk through not attack a creature in.

[Dave Justus]

Spells affect where a creature is, not what he reaches into.

The type of effect you are talking about does happen with a few spells, like fire shield, that damage a creature that attacks someone who is under its effect, but it is an entirely different mechanic and specified in those spells.

[Aluvial]

If you did consider glitterdust an ongoing effect, like cloud kill, would you have to save by attacking someone just inside the edge of the cloudkill effect (i.e., reaching in to attack them)?

Fireshield and other emanations that do damage if you enter their threshold work this way. Why not a spell area that has a persistent ongoing effect?

I'm thinking of other spells as well, like from 3.5, Axiomatic Storm. If you were chaotic, and had to attack someone inside of the edge of the storm, would not the rain cause damage to you as you attacked someone inside of it?

[Gauss]

No, you are affected if you are inside the area, not outside of it and attacking into it, unless the spell effect specifically states otherwise.

There is nothing in the rules to support being outside of an area and being affected by it when you attack someone inside the area.

[Mischief Mondragon]

Again no. Spells that have the effect from attacking state that. Cloudkill specifically states:

"A living creature with 6 or more HD takes 1d4 points of Constitution damage on your turn each round while in the cloud (a successful Fortitude save halves this damage). Holding one's breath doesn't help, but creatures immune to poison are unaffected by the spell."

Note: "while in the cloud". This is very straightforward when reading the descriptions.

Axiomatic Storm is the same, it states "It falls in a fixed area once created" and "a gout of acid strikes a randomly selected chaotic outsider within the spell’s area" nothing about individuals outside of the area (which includes individuals adjacent to it attacking individuals within).

Fireshield does not have an area of effect it is "personal". It also clearly describes the effect on people attacking the individual with the spell in effect: "Any creature striking you with its body or a handheld weapon deals normal damage, but at the same time the attacker takes 1d6 points of damage + 1 point per caster level (maximum +15)."

Read the descriptions and then don't over apply the effects.

[Aluvial]

Mischief Mondragon wrote:

Again no. Spells that have the effect from attacking state that. Cloudkill specifically states:

"A living creature with 6 or more HD takes 1d4 points of Constitution damage on your turn each round while in the cloud (a successful Fortitude save halves this damage). Holding one's breath doesn't help, but creatures immune to poison are unaffected by the spell."

Note: "while in the cloud". This is very straightforward when reading the descriptions.

Axiomatic Storm is the same, it states "It falls in a fixed area once created" and "a gout of acid strikes a randomly selected chaotic outsider within the spell’s area" nothing about individuals outside of the area (which includes individuals adjacent to it attacking individuals within).

Okay, so what about the Wall of Fire example. Let me change the attack something just inside of the effect, to picking something up just inside of the effect. If you pick up your dropped weapon, which is just inside the 20' fire effect from a Wall of Fire, do you take damage reaching in to pick up the item?

[Mischief Mondragon]

Aluvial wrote:

Mischief Mondragon wrote:

Again no. Spells that have the effect from attacking state that. Cloudkill specifically states:

"A living creature with 6 or more HD takes 1d4 points of Constitution damage on your turn each round while in the cloud (a successful Fortitude save halves this damage). Holding one's breath doesn't help, but creatures immune to poison are unaffected by the spell."

Note: "while in the cloud". This is very straightforward when reading the descriptions.

Axiomatic Storm is the same, it states "It falls in a fixed area once created" and "a gout of acid strikes a randomly selected chaotic outsider within the spell’s area" nothing about individuals outside of the area (which includes individuals adjacent to it attacking individuals within).

Okay, so what about the Wall of Fire example. Let me change the attack something just inside of the effect, to picking something up just inside of the effect. If you pick up your dropped weapon, which is just inside the 20' fire effect from a Wall of Fire, do you take damage reaching in to pick up the item?

No.

[Gauss]

Aluvial, under no circumstances are you affected by an area spell when you are outside the spell unless the spell states otherwise.

This is just a basic premise of the game.

[Aluvial]

Okay,

Thanks!