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Rules Questions and Gameplay Discussion


First of all, I DID search for this subject in the threads, but didn't find anything relevant in the brief time I reviewed the search result. I have a few questions.

First, in all cases of blessings other than BotG, the phrase "If the card of the blessings discard pile matches this card, recharge this card instead of discarding it" can be found. Since this phrase refers to the POWER of the top card of the discard pile, using the Blessing of the Gods card to duplicate the top card of the discard pile does not entitle you to recharge that BotG card per the phrase found in the recharge section of the top card of the blessing discard pile. Is that correct? If you use a Blessing of the Gods card, you pretty much HAVE to discard it, regardless if you use it for it's own powers or the powers of the top card of the blessings discard pile. Correct?

Second, can a player play a Cure spell during another player, or can Cure spells only be played during the turn of the player casting the Cure spell? Can this action occur at any time (e.g. during the beneficiary's turn), or can it only be played during the casting character's turn?

Third, if a player is entitled to look at the top card of a location deck and then return the card to the deck, is that player allowed to share that information to the other players. For example, if a player is allowed to examine the top three cards of the location deck, can he reveal what cards he saw to the other players and in what order he placed them back into the location deck? Or is this information for his eyes only?


strigoi73 wrote:

First of all, I DID search for this subject in the threads, but didn't find anything relevant in the brief time I reviewed the search result. I have a few questions.

First, in all cases of blessings other than BotG, the phrase "If the card of the blessings discard pile matches this card, recharge this card instead of discarding it" can be found. Since this phrase refers to the POWER of the top card of the discard pile, using the Blessing of the Gods card to duplicate the top card of the discard pile does not entitle you to recharge that BotG card per the phrase found in the recharge section of the top card of the blessing discard pile. Is that correct? If you use a Blessing of the Gods card, you pretty much HAVE to discard it, regardless if you use it for it's own powers or the powers of the top card of the blessings discard pile. Correct?

Correct. See this FAQ.

strigoi73 wrote:
Second, can a player play a Cure spell during another player, or can Cure spells only be played during the turn of the player casting the Cure spell? Can this action occur at any time (e.g. during the beneficiary's turn), or can it only be played during the casting character's turn?

You can play a Cure during anyone's turn, as long as it isn't during an encounter. You also generally have to follow the "finish one thing before you start another" rule and doing things in the prescribed order. But nothing prevents Cure from being played on another turn.

strigoi73 wrote:
Third, if a player is entitled to look at the top card of a location deck and then return the card to the deck, is that player allowed to share that information to the other players. For example, if a player is allowed to examine the top three cards of the location deck, can he reveal what cards he saw to the other players and in what order he placed them back into the location deck? Or is this information for his eyes only?

He can tell the others and even show it to them. And since it is a cooperative, I would hope he'd so so.

You might find this guide helpful by the way.


You are correct that BotG does not recharge itself by copying another blessing. Even without getting into the technicalities and rules, this would make BotG absurdly powerful and would pretty much render all other blessings pointless.

As for when you can cast Cure... I have some pretty strong feelings on timing rules. I despise them. Almost as much as I despise communication rules. So I say go ahead and Cure away. Any time. All the time. Having said that, probably better to wait for somebody else to give you an actual answer that's grounded in the rules.


To expand on when you can play cards a bit, every version of the rules contains this sentence. I'm copying it from WotR since I'm not sure which game you have:

WotR Rulebook p9 wrote:
Anyone can play a card whenever the card allows it.

Nothing on Cure says it has to be played on your turn. Just like nothing on the spell Aid or Find Traps says you have to play it on your turn.

So, when would you NOT be allowed to play Cure? Well, during an encounter for on thing...

WotR Rulebook p10 wrote:
Encountering a Card ... Players may only play cards or use powers that relate to each step (or relate to cards played or powers used in that step).

Cure won't relate to any step of the encounter.

There is also the "finish one thing before you start something else" rule:

WotR Rulebook p29 wrote:
Finish One Thing Before You Start Something Else. You do many things in a specific order, and you need to finish doing each thing before you do the next thing. You move before you explore, not after. If a spell used in a check can be recharged, finish the first check before you attempt your check to recharge it. If a villain requires two sequential combat checks, finish the first before starting the second. Don’t start a new process until you’ve finished the last one. (That said, if the game doesn’t specify an order for things, you decide the order.)

When does that matter? Well, at the end of your turn step for one.

WotR Rulebook p9 wrote:
End Your Turn: First, apply any effects that happen at the end of the turn. While you do this, unless a power directed you to end your turn, you may play cards and use powers. If your number of mythic charges is greater than the scenario’s adventure deck number, discard any charges in excess of that number. Then, reset your hand (see Reset Your Hand on page 14). When you’re done, the turn passes to the player on your left.

So, you are told you have to do something "first" which is apply any effects that happen at the end of your turn. The next thing you have to do is reset your hand. Followed by passing the turn to the next player. So by following the prescribed order, there is no opportunity to play Cure.

But that leaves lots of opportunities to play Cure. You can play it at the start of your turn, after you advance the blessing deck and apply any "start of the turn" effects. Or you can play it after you explore. Or after you move. Or before you move.


That last bit from Hawkmoon that you can cast Cure after exploring, just wanted to point out that if you do cast Cure after an explore, you will typically not be able to play another card to explore again as most, if not all, cards that grant subsequent explores must be performed immediately after the previous exploration


NyteJKL wrote:
That last bit from Hawkmoon that you can cast Cure after exploring, just wanted to point out that if you do cast Cure after an explore, you will typically not be able to play another card to explore again as most, if not all, cards that grant subsequent explores must be performed immediately after the previous exploration

You could still play the typical blessing or ally. They do not require you to play them immediately after the previous exploration.


Was basing it off this confirmation from Vic that even an extra exploration from a blessing has to be immediately after the previous explore:

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2re11?Alahazra-Qs#48
...

Edit.
I will strike that comment, guess I should have read further and that they are indeed allowed

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2re11&page=2?Alahazra-Qs#53

Which I think I got mixed up with this FAQ entry...

http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1gu#v5748eaic9shs

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Hawk did a fine job (as usual) with his answers, but I would like to address this one:

strigoi73 wrote:
Third, if a player is entitled to look at the top card of a location deck and then return the card to the deck, is that player allowed to share that information to the other players. For example, if a player is allowed to examine the top three cards of the location deck, can he reveal what cards he saw to the other players and in what order he placed them back into the location deck? Or is this information for his eyes only?

The rules deliberately don't tell you what to do on that point; the closest we come is the "Should You Be Selfish?" sidebar (in the Wrath rulebook, it's on page 8), which says "This is a cooperative game, so sharing information and setting goals as a group is wise," then notes that "Some groups even play with their hands faceup on the table so everyone can help make choices. Other players do not share as freely, and there’s a good reason for it. Your character is a living, growing entity. Your choices will determine whether your character succeeds and improves. If you let your friends make decisions for you, you might not be looking out for yourself."

This is what we refer to as a "social contract" issue—it's up to you to determine the play style that best suits your own group.

Silver Crusade

strigoi73 wrote:
Third, if a player is entitled to look at the top card of a location deck and then return the card to the deck, is that player allowed to share that information to the other players. For example, if a player is allowed to examine the top three cards of the location deck, can he reveal what cards he saw to the other players and in what order he placed them back into the location deck? Or is this information for his eyes only?

Re: Social contract. In my groups, we've taken to leaving the cards face up on the deck, because as Rebel Song frequently reminds me, we are not playing Memory.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Some players even leave cards faceup when they recharge them, since you are allowed to know how many cards are above it in your deck when you put it on the bottom. (Obviously, if something causes you to shuffle your deck, you need to flip them back over before doing so...)


Vic Wertz wrote:
Some players even leave cards faceup when they recharge them, since you are allowed to know how many cards are above it in your deck when you put it on the bottom. (Obviously, if something causes you to shuffle your deck, you need to flip them back over before doing so...)

Actually, maybe because we come from decades of RPG, we decided to play this way :

- Anything that was played or encountered is common knowledge, so as Vic said, we do leave face-up (as long as not reshuffled) any card played that somehow returns to a deck (location deck, character's deck...)

- But we keep our hand hidden and only shere what we want to share from our bag of tricks. That especially prevents one player from playing the whole game for the others (i. e. solo) if he had a big mouth and full knowledge of all hands.


Hawkmoon269 wrote:


strigoi73 wrote:
... Can a player play a Cure spell during another player...
You can play a Cure during anyone's turn, as long as it isn't during an encounter. ...

I would add another important limit : you cannot play Cure (like any other card) between two players' turns.

So say you get to draw Cure when you reset your hand at the end of your turn, and the next character to play is at a location where something bad happens "at the beginning of her turn" (could be something like "bury cards from your discard"), you cannot play your Cure before that thing happens.


Vic Wertz wrote:
Some players even leave cards faceup when they recharge them, since you are allowed to know how many cards are above it in your deck when you put it on the bottom. (Obviously, if something causes you to shuffle your deck, you need to flip them back over before doing so...)

I hadn't thought of doing that. That would be super helpful for casters, to know which spells are coming back around (and in what order). "I know I have an Augury in here somewhere..."

Yes, when we scout we leave the cards face up (on either the top or bottom). I didn't sign up to play Memory/Concentration!

My house rule for non-OP (for me and my boyfriend) is that we can recharge BotG when BotG is the current blessing. It happens a lot less often than you'd think.

Grand Lodge

Frencois wrote:
Hawkmoon269 wrote:


strigoi73 wrote:
... Can a player play a Cure spell during another player...
You can play a Cure during anyone's turn, as long as it isn't during an encounter. ...

I would add another important limit : you cannot play Cure (like any other card) between two players' turns.

So say you get to draw Cure when you reset your hand at the end of your turn, and the next character to play is at a location where something bad happens "at the beginning of her turn" (could be something like "bury cards from your discard"), you cannot play your Cure before that thing happens.

True. As the time between someone resets and the start of the next player's turn is not actually part of a turn.

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