Unchained Martials


Homebrew and House Rules


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Ok so some time ago i asked the forum if martials really needed nicer things the answer was a resounding YES! I still belive that the disparity betwee caster and martials can be played arround as long as the roles dont overlap but im here to talk abot the disparity between martials. When Pathfinder Unchained book was anounced i found it strange that they put the barbarian on the book instead of the cavalier, the barbarian since day one has had things that'd make even the fighters moutht water the cavalier on the other hand only has rehashed features from other classes some of them like mount actually work for the class flavor most of them don't and tactician the truly innovative feature that is his own is limited in a way that makes it really hard to use.
Now ill write my small fixes to some of the martial classes that are in need of some help starting with the cavalier.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

UnchainedCavalier

Tactician (Ex): At 1st level, a cavalier receives a teamwork feat as a bonus feat. He must meet the prerequisites for this feat. As a standard action, the cavalier can grant a teamwork feat to all allies within 30 feet who can see and hear him. Allies retain the use of this bonus feat for 3 rounds plus 1 round for every two levels the cavalier possesses. Allies do not need to meet the prerequisites of these bonus feats. The cavalier can use this ability once per day at 1st level, plus one additional time per day at 3d level and for every 2 levels thereafter.

Cavalier's Charge (Ex): At 3rd level, a cavalier learns to make more accurate charge attacks. The cavalier receives a +4 bonus on melee attack rolls on a charge (instead of the normal +2). In addition, the cavalier does not suffer any penalty to his AC after making a charge attack while mounted.

Banner (Ex): At 5th level, a cavalier's banner becomes a symbol of inspiration to his allies and companions. As long as the cavalier's banner is clearly visible, all allies within 60 feet receive a +2 morale bonus on saving throws against fear and a +1 morale bonus on all attack rolls made. At 10th level, and every five levels thereafter, these bonuses increase by +1. The banner must be at least Small or larger and must be carried or displayed by the cavalier or his mount to function.

....Maybe also good will saves but that is not a must for me


All you mentioned are good but I'd also change Tactician to look more like a Vanguard Slayer's tactician.

Also I'd probably add an unmounted cavalier option baseline.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Unchained Monk

The Unchained monk is great i love what they did with him you'd still want to roll your stats or have a pretty high point buy to roll a monk but its a cool class my only real problem with monks its that unarmed attacks are still subpar compared to a temple sword or others monk weapons i mean you still need an amulet of mighty fist to make an unarmed monk work wich does not allow you to use an amullet of natural armor and the magic weapon is still cheaper so for me the only fix the monk needs is an item that substitutes amulet of mighty fist that only works on unarmed attacks (so the druid or dragon or animal companion can not use it) with a price similar to enchanting a weapon


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Secret Wizard wrote:

All you mentioned are good but I'd also change Tactician to look more like a Vanguard Slayer's tactician.

Also I'd probably add an unmounted cavalier option baseline.

the samurai is pretty much an unmounted cavalier


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Unchained Fighter

ok this one has more problems than the monk

Bravery (Ex): An experienced fighter has seen carnage first hand and the horrors of war has hardened his resolve.At 4th level the fighter becomes immune to fear effects

Weapon Training (Ex): Starting at 5th level, a fighter can select one group of weapons, as noted below. Whenever he attacks with a weapon from this group, he gains a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls.

Every four levels thereafter (9th, 13th, and 17th), a fighter becomes further trained in another group of weapons. He gains a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls when using a weapon from this group. In addition, the bonuses granted by previous weapon groups increase by +1 each. For example, when a fighter reaches 9th level, he receives a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls with one weapon group and a +2 bonus on attack and damage rolls with the weapon group selected at 5th level. Bonuses granted from overlapping groups do not stack. Take the highest bonus granted for a weapon if it resides in two or more groups.

A fighter also adds this bonus to any combat maneuver checks made with weapons from this group. This bonus also applies to the fighter's Combat Maneuver Defense when defending against disarm and sunder attempts made against weapons from this group.

When the fighter takes a feat that works on a specific weapon like Weapon Focus if the fighter has weapon training on that weapon group then the effects of this feat aplies to all weapons on this weapon group (exotic weapon training does not aply)

Weapon Mastery (Ex): At 20th level, a fighter chooses one weapon group , such as swords, axes, bows. Any attacks made with that weapon automatically confirm all critical threats and have their damage multiplier increased by 1 (×2 becomes ×3, for example). In addition, he cannot be disarmed while wielding a weapon of this type.

Also good reflex saves


Biztak wrote:
Secret Wizard wrote:

All you mentioned are good but I'd also change Tactician to look more like a Vanguard Slayer's tactician.

Also I'd probably add an unmounted cavalier option baseline.

the samurai is pretty much an unmounted cavalier

It's got a Mount and Mounted Archery, it really isn't. Not to mention Banner only applying to charge attacks too.

And most Orders requiring a pet.


Biztak wrote:

Unchained Monk

The Unchained monk is great i love what they did with him you'd still want to roll your stats or have a pretty high point buy to roll a monk but its a cool class my only real problem with monks its that unarmed attacks are still subpar compared to a temple sword or others monk weapons i mean you still need an amulet of mighty fist to make an unarmed monk work wich does not allow you to use an amullet of natural armor and the magic weapon is still cheaper so for me the only fix the monk needs is an item that substitutes amulet of mighty fist that only works on unarmed attacks (so the druid or dragon or animal companion can not use it) with a price similar to enchanting a weapon

I would probably make a Ki Power that grants 1.5x STR to unarmed attacks as long as you have 1 ki, and a baseline Ki Power that grants some Ki regeneration, perhaps on unarmed criticals only.

That way, some dude with Ascetic Style could probably enjoy those... but the unarmed monk could still go with Crane Style, Jabbing Style, etc.


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Thing is, from what I'm seeing your giving martials toys to make them better at things they're already good at.

Don't.

That's not the problem. They don't need to be better at killing stuff. (Well maybe the Unchained Rogue still needs help but that's a different story). In general the problem with martials is the scope of what they can do.

How do I cross this gap/chasm/continent?

Martial - I'll walk, maybe fly if I'm lucky enough to get a class feature that can do that. Jump across small things if need be.

Caster - I will just teleport (or fly, air walk, gaseous form, tree stride....the list goes on and on and on) across this obstacle

This represents the basic problem of martials vs casters.

The cavalier doesn't need more damage. He needs a horse that can dimension door across the battlefield and have it count as charging to boot (so he can also use it for combat and outside of combat).


As an example, the Mutation Warrior is a really good fighter archetype. Why?

He can pick up a bonus to any physical ability that will scale with ability selection, add natural armor, and can allow him to gain other abilities. Like flight. Or abilities that replicate things like fortification (which can prevent sneak attacks and critical hits).

He gets bonuses to things other than hit things more often or hit them harder.

And to be honest these abilities aren't "great". It's just that the normal fighter pretty much consists of only bonuses to being harder to hit and hitting harder.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Claxon wrote:

Thing is, from what I'm seeing your giving martials toys to make them better at things they're already good at.

Don't.

That's not the problem. They don't need to be better at killing stuff. (Well maybe the Unchained Rogue still needs help but that's a different story). In general the problem with martials is the scope of what they can do.

How do I cross this gap/chasm/continent?

Martial - I'll walk, maybe fly if I'm lucky enough to get a class feature that can do that. Jump across small things if need be.

Caster - I will just teleport (or fly, air walk, gaseous form, tree stride....the list goes on and on and on) across this obstacle

This represents the basic problem of martials vs casters.

im well aware of that issue but thats not what we are discussing here this is more like why can the barbarian pounce when other martials cant even do what they were designed to do


I'd drop the limitations on Cavalier animal companions, so long as you take an animal companion you can ride. It's strange how Sorcerers, Druids, and Oracles can get better animal companions than regular Cavaliers, despite Cavaliers being the class that most relies upon their mount.


Biztak wrote:
why can the barbarian pounce when other martials cant even do what they were designed to do

Because the cavalier doesn't need it. His preferred attack is intended to be mounted charge, and he is good at it: +2 attack at level 3, improved critical range at level 11 and more damage and effects at level 20. If that's not enough, pick up Mounted Combat, Ride-By Attack (high mobility), Spirited Charge (even more damage on hit) etc.. It all works well with the challenge damage bonus.

Luckily that's a game where we have more options in melee than pounce. Even if pounce would be the 'best' option (by which criteria?), being 20% less effective doesn't mean the end of the world.


Cavalier's still don't need pounce though. They have access to mounted skirmisher. If anything lower the requirements on mounted skirmisher from 14 ranks in ride to 10 and it comes online at the same time a barbarians pounce does.

But beyond that by the time the cavalier could be doing that, they can also instead be doing mounted lance charges with ride by attack and spirited charge to deal triple damage. Which will usually deal more damage (if it hits) than making a full attack with their weapon.

Honestly, cavaliers are actually really good at dealing damage. It's just that they only way the are really good at it is mounted lance charges.

My Self wrote:
I'd drop the limitations on Cavalier animal companions, so long as you take an animal companion you can ride. It's strange how Sorcerers, Druids, and Oracles can get better animal companions than regular Cavaliers, despite Cavaliers being the class that most relies upon their mount.

I think honestly many people house rule this to as long as you can ride the animal you can have it as a mount. I don't see it being a problem as the animal companion will be no more effective than a druid's animal companion. What really needs to be done is animal companions need to be a bit weaker at lower levels and a bit stronger at higher levels. (As a GM I've definitely had problems with Hunter/Druid animal companions with natural armor and barding. They basically become impossible to hit and just tank everything by walking in front of everyone else).


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Thing is that I don't think other martials exactly need an unchained version as opposed to just new things that fit in the class features they have. Basically I'd disagree with changes like the Unchained Monk that invalidates books of options and archetypes as they are written. For this I wound up making the following changes;

I universally gave 4/9 casters full caster level and remade their spells per day list to start at 1st level and end up with a base 4 spells per day at each spell level.

Instead of uses of Resolve, the Samurai gains a ki pool equal to 1 + ½ his level. He may use ki as if it were uses of Resolve. Additionally Samurai may take Ki feats in place of bonus feats. This grants access to ki and ki shenanigans but also third party ki feats resolve a lot of problems that Monks have and therefore help Ninjas as well.

For the Cavalier himself he has access to more third party feats which makes it pretty tough right away but I also dismiss the limitation on mounts for flavor.

Fighters get the Combat Stamina feat for free at first level. Combat pools are synonymous with Martial Pools from Book of Martial action and can be spent as if they were martial pool points. This gives fighters and any character that wants to invest in stamina access to a resource pool for techniques and other martial abilities that would normally be too powerful. This does not exactly bring them up to Path of War standards but allows for combinations with other strategies and they can handle things better. Also Fighters have two more specific pieces of third party help which includes Fighter Nuances and Bravery Feats.

I consolidated some combat feats to make room for these feat based options.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Claxon wrote:

Cavalier's still don't need pounce though. They have access to mounted skirmisher. If anything lower the requirements on mounted skirmisher from 14 ranks in ride to 10 and it comes online at the same time a barbarians pounce does.

But beyond that by the time the cavalier could be doing that, they can also instead be doing mounted lance charges with ride by attack and spirited charge to deal triple damage. Which will usually deal more damage (if it hits) than making a full attack with their weapon.

Honestly, cavaliers are actually really good at dealing damage. It's just that they only way the are really good at it is mounted lance charges.

I dont want the cavalier to pounce thats the barbarian thing i mean he is designed to be a a martial monster and thats whe he should be, now the cavalier tactician along with his chalenge are the things he should be good at but isnt

the fighter is supposed to be a weapon master with lots of tricks so let him be that, the monk its supposed to be the go to class if you want to play a character that fights with his fist but the price on amulet of mighty fist makes it subpar since you are also sacrifising your neck slot

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