Is the update going to have any new content like the older ones did?
As far as I know, yep! As N. Jolly mentioned, there's going to be a handful of new talents. You guys are gonna love them, I can feel it in my guts.
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So, I have noticed something odd in my KOP 3 PDF (may be an old problem by now, but thought I'd mention it), is that Heirloom Affinity mentions that Aetheric Tempering is a prerequisite... But that talent doesn't seem to exist, as far as I can tell. Is it in a different product, because I can't find it in any of the KOP books I bought (1, 2, or 3).
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So, I have noticed something odd in my KOP 3 PDF (may be an old problem by now, but thought I'd mention it), is that Heirloom Affinity mentions that Aetheric Tempering is a prerequisite... But that talent doesn't seem to exist, as far as I can tell. Is it in a different product, because I can't find it in any of the KOP books I bought (1, 2, or 3).Aetheric Tempering is from Kineticists of Porphyra II; do you have the latest copy of it? I believe it was included after one of the updates and not in the original copy, if I recall correctly...it's on page 30-31 for me.
HRM... I got my copy from www.opengamingstore.com, and it seems like they haven't updated their copy of the PDF as I just redownloaded it, and there is no Aetheric Tempering talent in it.
I will send John an email.
There's no feat or talent to let telekineticists catch ranged attacks from enemies (as so many telekineticists do in nearly every media) and then throw them back right? There should be. As an off shoot of that, let the telekineticist catch and hold spells/rays/lasers ala Force Awakens. Possibly accepting burn to redirect them to a new target.
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GDI, it's not something I can affect on my end since I'm just a writer, but if you get me your email address Hunterofthedusk, I can send you the copy I have, which DOES have the wild talent in question. The new edit doc is going through this weekend, so I do appreciate you telling me this so I can make sure Mark G. updates this on all sites. Feel free to PM me your email and I'll do my best to get this correct.
EDIT: Seems I got to this a bit late, Mark G. is on it. We'll have to make sure the new doc goes up in all places.
EDIT 2.0: That is a solid idea for a talent Tels, seems like the overflow doc is going to keep growing. I've just gotten work on some of the gravity related talents that Luthorne inspired (Onyx commented on it, talking about how I was finally giving Gravity some attention), and there's quite a few in the overflow doc at this point.
It might be an air ability as well. Catching boulders with the wind and hurling them back at giants, for example.
It's always bothered me that so many telekinesis have been able to catch like, a bunch or arrows, or enemy bullets, or hurled stones, stopping them in-flight, and then throw all of them back at their attackers. I mean, if a mid-high level telekinesis goes up against a horde of Goblin archers, you'd think it'd be trivial for him to catch all of their arrows and shoot them back.
The unfortunate part is, the closest ability to this is Many Throw and it comes on line really late in the game.
[Edit] Perhaps a talent that simply catches or stops ranged attacks, like Solid Fog/Wind Wall, but you can chain it together with Many Throw to return fire?
There's no feat or talent to let telekineticists catch ranged attacks from enemies (as so many telekineticists do in nearly every media) and then throw them back right? There should be. As an off shoot of that, let the telekineticist catch and hold spells/rays/lasers ala Force Awakens. Possibly accepting burn to redirect them to a new target.
I might be wrong, but couldn't you ready a TK blast in the event that projectiles are fired or thrown at you? Might be up to GM fiat but I'd think an arrow is no longer attended once it's been loosed from a bow.
Had another thought before going to sleep: Projectile Vortex. Aether/Void talent that causes non-spell/SLA/SU ranged attacks (possibly accepting 2-4 burn to affect spells/SLA/SU attacks) to veer towards a target in an AoE around them. Something like a radius of 5 ft./4 kineticist levels and a duration of concentration +3 rounds. Might be fun to chain together with a Many Throw to target all the attacks on a boss in the middle or something.
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@Luthorne: I completely agree, Wood just doesn't have a real place where the other elements do. I mean, there's vague ties to schools of magic in the core elements, although the KOP elements have VERY obvious corollary schools of magic:
Light-Illusion
Sound-Enchantment
Time-...kind of a janky transmutation?
Viscera-Transmutation
Poison-...kind of a conjurationist vibe with heavy poison overtones
Wood just...like I think Mort's working on something like what you're talking about, I'll have to talk to her about it later, but you're completely right that there's just nothing that wood does that's really unique.
I'll probably try to work with something that you've got there, although even though the KOP overflow doc is HUGE now, I want to curb things at the moment, as I want to see what Horror Adventures brings to the class. I personally wouldn't mind too much if the book word for word stole Viscera.
I will admit the garden talents do have a bit of an allure to me as the atrophy field line was something that I really liked working on, as it gave a very 'master of undeath' feel, and I feel like would could really use a 'master of nature' vibe. It's definitely something I'll think about, as my goals are to make my works help out the weaker elements, and as we've talked about, I've done a lot to make void worth using by itself, at least on the necro side.
I'll probably see about working a few of these ideas into future projects. Also thanks to everyone for helping make KOP 3 the number 1 download this week. At this point, every volume of KOP has had the top slot at least once, and I think KOP 1 held it for like a month.
@Tels: I could see something like that, originally I thought I'd have a ton of swift action talents for this class, but somehow those have fallen through the cracks.
Full disclosure here, KOP won't be the only thing that I work on that has kineticist content, and since this is the KOP thread, I don't want to talk about it a lot here, but I am working with another publisher to put out another kineticist book, it will include a new element (my LAST new element as far as I'm concerned), some non kineticist archetypes that relate to the kineticist, and more general talents. So if you mention something in here, it might end up in that, but I consider it (as well as everyone who's helped work on this project) a part of the KOP family, so I'll be working to keep everything as compatible as possible (even if some things are similar just because I can't rely on KOP content for this new venture). Team KOP will be helping with it (Onyx is already outpacing me there), so it'll be to the same standards, just a heads up on that.
I'm not abandoning KOP, this is more of a side project, and if there's demand for it, I will be doing a KOP 4 since there's material for it (rough material, but material), I just want to keep you all in the loop.
Also Hunter, did you get my email? I want to make sure everything sent out. Hopefully the new versions of the docs will be up on their respective sites this week.
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Yeah, mostly just sharing some musings on the off-chance it inspires you for future work, or anyone else browsing the thread, really, there just isn't a lot of kineticist material being produced for third party beyond the Kineticists of Porphyra line, though I did snag Occult Archetypes from Legendary Games. But yeah...I love kineticists conceptually, but they need a lot more material. which - somewhat understandably, Paizo hasn't been dedicating the pagecount to, given how many other things they're generating material for - and you've been filling that void so far pretty nicely, so. But yeah, I think most elements need a 'ooh I want do THIS' factor that makes you pick it, and while I almost want to play Wood just to have my super sentai wood golem team, that's 18th level, and they're not that impressive...even if the idea's fun.
I certainly am curious about what Horror Adventures might add to the kineticist, though. Amongst other classes.
But yeah, I will probably snag Kineticists of Porphyra 4 if it comes out, as well as other kineticist third party material I spot, presuming it's reasonably priced, at least.
There are 2 that I know of off the top of my head, I know FPG's is already coming out soon, not sure about Everyman Game's (looking forward to seeing the 'dream' element), but I'd say I'm the only one actively working on new content for them at this point. In the guide thread, Mark S. talked about how he wasn't getting the page count that 3p was for them, which makes it feel like kineticist aren't getting a ton of love in official products. KOP 4 will be held back until after Horror Adventures for reasons of seeing what they have, as I'd like to try to incorporate some stuff from it.
Oh, unrelatedly, do you think a feat or utility talent that allows you to create a small dimensional tear would be worthwhile? You've got one for a larger dimensional tear, but I'm imagining a micro-tear about six inches to a foot in size for more covert portal shennanigans, that probably only a Fine or Diminutive creature could pass through (maybe a Tiny creature with an Escape Artist check). Or, of course, an arm or a head...would probably require Improved Tearing or Improved Dimensional Rip to be useful, so it could be off the ground. There is Deceptive Rip, so it might be too niche, but I just like the idea of creating a tiny little portal and reaching through to steal something or try to pickpocket someone or just toss a grenade or smokestick through...
Tangentially, since you've got a few space-warping talents, any thoughts about being able to create a pocket dimension ala rope trick or shadowy haven, or even just replicating a bag of holding? Being able to keep a few items hidden up your sleeves (possibly literally?) could be fun.
I could see including something like that, really I myself love the D. Ripper and everything that comes along with it, so making new rip stuff is always on my mind. So glad I made those general infusions. As for pocket dimensions, that's probably something I should have included, but I might make some online talents for them, throw them into the FAQ which is now linked to the new edit doc of KOP 1-3 (once those come out), and give you all some more stuff in that respect.
I'd like to see suggestions/insights for some of the archetypes. For instance, for the Elemental Scion, I'd like to know your opinion on which element is "the best option" for it. Same goes for the Fusion Kineticist, with "the best two-elements combos".
Ok not really an URGING advice, but it would be nice to have this kind of info for the long run ;)
I don't think I can say there's a BEST for Elemental Scion, but I can say that I have a favorite for it, and that would either be Viscera or Earth. Both have such a nice line up of talents that work well with each other, great control and manipulation, and solid damage. I know both are physical only, and I'd rather not have that if possible, but I tend to play Viscera as a natural attacker myself, so that never really factors in for me.
For Fusion Kineticist, it gets harder, since I have to talk about which I like as a main element and whatnot. It might sound odd, but I really like Time/Aether for fusion. It's low damage, for sure. But it's also high utility with Time being used for a lot of heavy lifting in single target battles and both having a great defense that works well together (miss chance keeping those temp HP high), and thanks to the D. Rip talents, both would really well together.
If I'm being honest, I consider Aether as such a good secondary element for Fusion Kineticist due to gaining access to the D. Ripper line, solid defense, and great utility with the talents. It's like my table salt of secondary elements. I'd say that even for non fusion kineticist, it's become my go to with things like this, even if it does stifle my damage. I'd rather do meh damage with tons of utility myself.
I have to confess I don't really get the point of Fusion Kineticist for non-damage focused kineticists. What is the benefit of going with that as opposed to just doing normal Time kin expanding into Aether? Or, probably better, Dimensional Ripper? I don't see a lot of synergy between the two elements that would make Cross Infusion as useful for a Time/Aether kin as it would be for a more traditionally blasty kin who really just wants to make their blasts more versatile. Also, it seems like the ability to treat your second element as the same level as your primary element kicks in too late for most games, so it doesn't really seem like it could really be built much differently than a normal kineticist.
I'm probably missing something obvious, though. Do you have a specific build you use that you could show to demonstrate the benefits?
I have to confess I don't really get the point of Fusion Kineticist for non-damage focused kineticists. What is the benefit of going with that as opposed to just doing normal Time kin expanding into Aether? Or, probably better, Dimensional Ripper? I don't see a lot of synergy between the two elements that would make Cross Infusion as useful for a Time/Aether kin as it would be for a more traditionally blasty kin who really just wants to make their blasts more versatile. Also, it seems like the ability to treat your second element as the same level as your primary element kicks in too late for most games, so it doesn't really seem like it could really be built much differently than a normal kineticist.
I'm probably missing something obvious, though. Do you have a specific build you use that you could show to demonstrate the benefits?
Time and Aether is probably a poor combo for the archetype.
On the flip side, Time + Fire = Battlefield control master. You end up paying a bit of extra burn for this combo, but adding your substance infusions to AoE attacks is HUGE. Take the best feat in KoP1 to never hit your allies and you end up being able to slow down groups in a big way without killing your allies.
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Ooh, new Everyman Gaming content for the kineticist? That certainly sounds exciting, I'm generally a fan of Alex's work...and I thought his ninja archetype that got a little kineticist fun fueled by ki was really interesting.
And yeah, I've got a chaokineticist my GM is letting me port over to being a dimensional ripper, which should be fun, so looking forward to the new document going up so I can check if I need to modify my sheet at all. Also want to design some kinetic duelist mooks...
I saw them put up a preview for it a while back, but I haven't heard anything about it since. Again, it seemed like an interesting concept, so I want to see where it goes.
The new doc isn't as change heavy as the others, although that's partially due to how much was in the initial doc. Mostly clarifications, and the visceral whip line of talents.
I have to confess I don't really get the point of Fusion Kineticist for non-damage focused kineticists. What is the benefit of going with that as opposed to just doing normal Time kin expanding into Aether? Or, probably better, Dimensional Ripper? I don't see a lot of synergy between the two elements that would make Cross Infusion as useful for a Time/Aether kin as it would be for a more traditionally blasty kin who really just wants to make their blasts more versatile. Also, it seems like the ability to treat your second element as the same level as your primary element kicks in too late for most games, so it doesn't really seem like it could really be built much differently than a normal kineticist.
I'm probably missing something obvious, though. Do you have a specific build you use that you could show to demonstrate the benefits?
For that, you're getting time stuff earlier rather than later with a fusion over a D. Ripper, but never make me choose between anything AND a D. Ripper, as D. Ripper will always win. Really, I think it's just my love of messing around with time stuff. Mort's got the right of it with fire being fun, I also like light/sound as a combination just for the synergy they have in base talents. Earth/aether can be fun too just as your defensive tank, and again ripper talents make everything better.
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And Everyman Options: Kineticists is out! ...though this might be the wrong thread to mention it, but since it was here I heard it was on the horizon...
Technically this IS the guide thread too, and the guide does include all 3p that is sent to me, although anything aside from the ratings of 3p belongs in its own thread which has already been made.
I've already requested a review copy to add it to the guide, so we'll see where that goes from there.
Aside from that, my new kineticist project is getting closer to wrapping up, and really all I can say is that the Elemental Shinobi unchained rogue and Surge Fist unchained monk are looking really cool
Cool are you going to do previews for the new book? This sure is a lot of content coming out at once!
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Cool are you going to do previews for the new book? This sure is a lot of content coming out at once!
That's up to the publisher, we'll see what they want to do.
And yeah, it is, but at least for what's coming out, it's very centered around 1 thing in particular, and that one thing will fill a niche that's been needed in the class, so it won't be along the same lines as KOP which fills EVERY niche, including those it has made for itself. Once it comes out I'll be making a thread for it, but as with Mort's KT, it's still in development.
Once the KOP 3 edits go through, I'll be giving reviews for that content, so that should be in the next week or so.
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Here's a question for you. If you're a corpokineticist with mutable visage and improved elemental limb, missing your arms, do you have your arms back when you use mutable visage to transform, and thus can't really benefit? Or is it the corpokineticist's choice whether or not to have proper arms when turning into whatever?
Also, side note, I presume when it says for improved elemental limb, "you may choose to have these manifest as two weapons", they're still natural weapons, right?
It's totally up to you if you want to grow back your limbs with mutable or keep your elemental limb(s). And I think for that it should be natural weapons, although if you wanted to make them into a sword like shape (which I think was the reason for that ability to be worded like that), go ahead and be Tommy Scissorfist.
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Hmm, going to make some of them available to the Dream element? Neat, cool to hear there'll be some cross 3pp support. Definitely curious about your upcoming product.I'll add that to the edit doc, since it looks like I'll have time to do that.
And hopefully in the next book I put out (pre-KOP 4), you'll be able to snag some talents from the neurokineticist I'm working on to help augment your psychokineticist.
Technically not DIRECT cross support, although I do have plans after getting permission to do a 'KOP Compatibility' section for my guides, things like mentioning archetypes that would work for KOP elements (Poisoned Earth from Occult Archetypes and the Poison element for example), allowing for those who are picking up multiple products to be able to better integrate them with KOP.
Once I get a review copy of EG: Kineticists, I'll be doing some compatibility notes of KOP/EG:K/OA, as well as any others who are looking to have their products included since really, basically I'm a hero. What can I say, I love the class and I want to try to integrate as much 3p into it as possible.
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Adaptive Utility and Kinetic Prodigy are two feats I would straight up rewrite for this new project if I could. But at this point, I assume those as class features.
OA will be fun to work with, the author and I are in contact, so I can get word of god on things from them.
I can't speak to the compatibility of things that I don't put out myself, but I'll probably be able to work out something.
From the perception I get of Psychokineticist, it should play very well with mind, there's a few dream options for Neurokineticist in the book, and I think they'll work well as sibling elements (like a less janky wood and earth).
And since I absolutely love boosting my ego, KOP 3 is number one on Paizo's downloads for other companies for the second week in a row, while KOP 1 has been on the top ten since it released (as far as I'm aware, we might have had one week off the list), so again I thank everyone for supporting this product line, you've all been amazing and I am thankful for everyone who's helped make KOP unstoppable.
Also as always a huge thanks to Team KOP, who help me from putting out garbage. You people are amazing, and I literally couldn't do this without you. Having a team of talented people like yourselves helping me with things like this really spurs on my desire, and this is as much your accomplishment as it is mine. Mort, Onyx, and Jacob are some seriously talented people to worth with.
BTWay, since I am a sham, if anyone here hasn't already, please leave a review for KOP 1-3 if you get the chance. Doesn't have to be long, just an honest review will do!
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Don't know if this has been pointed out yet but KOP 3's credits page lists an "Onyc Tanuki". I assume that's a typo.
[sarcasm]Onyc is the most important member of team KOP obviously[/sarcasm]
Yeah that should be in the first round of edits for KOP 3, as well as adding Jacob to the credits of team KOP. Thanks for the update though, I'm sure Onyx appreciates people looking out for them too.
Also as an aside, I think the best way to build Sans from Undertale would be as a fusion kineticist selecting aether/viscera with the brutal mutation due to how fragile he is.
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Personally, I think you'd be fine giving them VoOP for this, it shouldn't increase your power beyond acceptable numbers in my estimation.
And yeah, you're probably right on treating it as about as effectively as AoMF. Sure if you go Ragebred hate monster along with Corpokineticist, you're going to end up as a god, but to be fair, that's true no matter what, so Ragebred is banned. Sorry, I don't make the rules, Ragebred banned (that means for you too, Onyx!).
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All of that math in that last post my have killed me. I am dead, and I have deserved this death.
Progress report from N. the Jolly:
1. The edits for KOP 3 are up so feel free to redownload that to make sure you have the most up to date version with the visceral whip talent line and other changes. I know there's other stuff I missed, but at the moment I'm going to leave KOP 3 as it is for the moment, updating it only if there's a large shift in things that need to be addressed.
2. KOP 3 has been added to the guide completely, so if you wanted to see how the talents stacked up, now's your chance. I have to admit, it was a lot harder rating them then the last two, for some reason it felt more subjective this time, but as always I went with my gut, and my gut told me that I am amazing.
3. My new kineticist project is wrapping up on the writing end of things, I'll keep you all updated in a new thread about it once I pass it off to the publisher, hopefully they'll be as cool as Mark G. has been about letting me do previews, since I love slowly doling out information on things that I'm working on.
4. The guide has been split into multiple pages, this is good since the talent/elements section is 50 pages, and it's only going to get larger. I need to update the 3p section with KOP 3.
That's all on my end as well as on the end of the guide, KOP, and my other kineticist projects. Sorry to use this as a faux blog, but my real blog is filled with pictures of cats laughing at smaller cats wearing ill fitting hats, and I don't think this is the kind of content they would enjoy.
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Where is this "silverlight blast" you're rating?It's from Kineticists of Porphyra III.
Yeah, Silverlight is in the update to KOP 3, it was one of the inclusions along with the Visceral Whip talent line.
Also small update, sadly the elemental shinobi archetype has been nixed. The good news is that it's going to be made into its own class, it's right now working as a hybrid ninja/kineticist.
On the KOP front, while I'm not working on KOP 4 (yet), but I am working on something KOP related, including a few more elemental saturations for Porphyra as well as a few more sample characters for the other elements, so I'll keep you all posted on how things shape up.
No pressure, but I need that neurokineticist you mentioned asap.
Also, I think this is the first I've heard of the elemental shinobi, but I'm already stoked. Did you mention it earlier in this thread and I just missed it?
Also small update, sadly the elemental shinobi archetype has been nixed. The good news is that it's going to be made into its own class, it's right now working as a hybrid ninja/kineticist.
A new class? I'm eager to that ^_^ Frankly, I always thought that it would be easier to just add kinetic blasts and talents as new ninja tricks, but a brand new class should be interesting ;)
Kineticists of Porphyra III has now broken even. Thank you for your continued support on this series.