I'm leaving kineticist-like archetypes to Mort...
I hope there's a "spirit monk" archetype of Yu Yu Hakusho fame.
I'm leaving kineticist-like archetypes to Mort...I hope there's a "spirit monk" archetype of Yu Yu Hakusho fame.
I have no idea what that is! ^_^
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I have no idea what that is! ^_^I'm leaving kineticist-like archetypes to Mort...I hope there's a "spirit monk" archetype of Yu Yu Hakusho fame.
I'll help Mort with it, it'll just take a long time to balance the power of that green jumpsuit.
Also, here's a preview of KOP 3, including the newest tristalt blast, Hellfire!
So, I apologize if it's been brought up before, but I don't have the time to look through the other pages for a mention of it, but I was wondering why exactly the Light simple blast is only bludgeoning, even though the other elements (aether, earth) that only have physical blasts lets you choose from bludgeoning, piercing, or5 slashing every time you use them?Air blast is bludgeoning. Not that I don't see a piercing ray of light as being pretty much more sense than bludgeoning, but still. Precedent is available I'd it works for you. I believe gravity as well.
Emphasis mine.
Air has both a physical and an energy blast, so precedent isn't set. Gravity, like air, also has a physical and energy blast.
|
So, I apologize if it's been brought up before, but I don't have the time to look through the other pages for a mention of it, but I was wondering why exactly the Light simple blast is only bludgeoning, even though the other elements (aether, earth) that only have physical blasts lets you choose from bludgeoning, piercing, or5 slashing every time you use them?Air blast is bludgeoning. Not that I don't see a piercing ray of light as being pretty much more sense than bludgeoning, but still. Precedent is available I'd it works for you. I believe gravity as well.Emphasis mine.
Air has both a physical and an energy blast, so precedent isn't set. Gravity, like air, also has a physical and energy blast.
My point exactly. Any element that has both an energy and a physical blast has a bludgeoning blast, but if the element has only a physical blast then it lets you choose between the three physical damage types, the presumption is that it lets you bypass a couple of DR types that the other elements can bypass by just switching to their energy blast. By only having a single damage type, it is marginally weaker than aether and earth. Also, I want to be able to do a destructo disc, or throw spears of light
|
|
My point exactly. Any element that has both an energy and a physical blast has a bludgeoning blast, but if the element has only a physical blast then it lets you choose between the three physical damage types, the presumption is that it lets you bypass a couple of DR types that the other elements can bypass by just switching to their energy blast. By only having a single damage type, it is marginally weaker than aether and earth. Also, I want to be able to do a destructo disc, or throw spears of light
This is being addressed in KOP 3 now that I am aware of it. I'm introducing a line of 'substitute basics', talents that can be taken in place of basic utility wild talents for their elements.
Things like wood can now control paper instead, water can now use a piercing blast, air gets slashing, aether gets a material specialization, and thanks to this conversation, light will now get slashing and piercing blast!
There isn't one for every element (yet), but this is to help make a difference to even 1st level kineticist, helping to vary them even more. And with the 'basic kinetic training' feat, you'll be able to snag back those basic utility wild talents if you miss them at all, giving you even more feats to use for the class.
Thanks for bringing this up, I will post the feat on the thread once the book releases (possibly adding it to the FAQ as well), just to make sure that everyone has access to it, since it is my fault for not remedying this issue as it arose.
EDIT: It's kind of funny, there's 2 mechanics I haven't been able to work into this book, one since KOP 1 and another since KOP 2, and both were supposed to be so cool, but as of yet I just can't manage it.
You might consider some tweaks I made for the kineticist in my games. Air, gravity, and fire can create small little displays with their element similar to using silent image. Essentially, they could make little dancing elementals out of wind/shadowa/lightning/fire. Water (ice), earth and wood can create small, brittle objects as per prestidigitation. This let's them create small, temporary tokens, like when Iceman made a rose for Rogue in the first Xmen movie.
A more substantial tweak is letting aether use their basic telekinesis to affect objects and creatures within their weight limit, but with a save based on the level of the talent. Telekinetic haul increases the weight limit as normal, letting a telekinetic pick up larger, and larger creatures.
|
|
This is being addressed in KOP 3 now that I am aware of it. I'm introducing a line of 'substitute basics', talents that can be taken in place of basic utility wild talents for their elements.
Things like wood can now control paper instead, water can now use a piercing blast, air gets slashing, aether gets a material specialization, and thanks to this conversation, light will now get slashing and piercing blast!
I hope you mean that light will get an errata rather than having to trade their utility talent, since it really should have had it from the get-go
|
|
You might consider some tweaks I made for the kineticist in my games. Air, gravity, and fire can create small little displays with their element similar to using silent image. Essentially, they could make little dancing elementals out of wind/shadowa/lightning/fire. Water (ice), earth and wood can create small, brittle objects as per prestidigitation. This let's them create small, temporary tokens, like when Iceman made a rose for Rogue in the first Xmen movie.
A more substantial tweak is letting aether use their basic telekinesis to affect objects and creatures within their weight limit, but with a save based on the level of the talent. Telekinetic haul increases the weight limit as normal, letting a telekinetic pick up larger, and larger creatures.
That's worth considering, it might be worth it to make a universal 'prestidigitation' like talent for some of the elements.
I hope you mean that light will get an errata rather than having to trade their utility talent, since it really should have had it from the get-go
I probably should just errata it, I'll just shake around the talent I had set up for that and change it into something else. There's going to be a new wave of errata/clarification coming up anyways, so I'll just add that to the change doc. I'm probably going to leave the composites as they are now though.
As of now though, word of god is that light can do b/p/s like earth and wood.
I'd like to get people's opinions on making Light-Speed Travel and other abilities work with the dimensional agility chain, it seems thematic so I'm basically for it. I'll probably allow it myself, maybe try to figure out if I should errata something or just FAQ it.
|
|
I'd like to get people's opinions on making Light-Speed Travel and other abilities work with the dimensional agility chain, it seems thematic so I'm basically for it. I'll probably allow it myself, maybe try to figure out if I should errata something or just FAQ it.
The only real problem I see with it is that the first feat is a complete waste, since Light-speed Travel doesn't immediately end your turn. Aside from that, I think it could be neat. Not enough classes outside of Synthesist Summoner can really make use of the Dimensional Agility line of feats, tbh
|
|
Something along the line of a "counts as having that feat" could be useful.
I like the dimensional line, the only question I have is how much more powerful that chain would be for someone dealing blast (whip) damage instead of keen scimitar damage.
There are talents now that will do this, included in KOP 3, although when we do the edit run of KOP 1, I think I'll insert them into that book, just to help people only picking up that one.
On the exciting front, KOP 2 was just reviewed by Malwing on their blog, check it out here!
And the KOP 3 previews continue with Malwing's blog, as their top 10 of the week includes both praise for KOP 1/2, but also an exclusive preview of KOP 3, including clarification on the new 'elemental mutations!'
All in all, it's been a big week for KOP 3, and it's looking to be slightly larger than KOP 1 or 2, as we're even including a 'run off' doc for ideas that don't make it into this one, possibly to be included in other PDG products or a theoretical KOP 4! Thanks to everyone who's helped out, another big thanks to Team KOP, and I'll keep you all updated on new content and such as it becomes available!
|
|
Another thing that could possibly be solved by my checking but I'll ask anyways since there is a follow-up question- Is there any errata already? I mostly ask because I notice that the elemental defenses of KOP 1 only increase in power when you take burn for them, and not at all by themselves (at least in the PDF that I bought), which is out of line of the core defenses that increase in power by themselves AND have an option to take burn to increase them, but it's mostly an issue for the Overwhelming Soul, that CANNOT take burn at all, and therefor those elements become sub-par choices
That particular tri-blast is not what I expected, but nice. I guess I got it in my head that you'd need three elements for a tri-composite blast.
|
|
Another thing that could possibly be solved by my checking but I'll ask anyways since there is a follow-up question- Is there any errata already? I mostly ask because I notice that the elemental defenses of KOP 1 only increase in power when you take burn for them, and not at all by themselves (at least in the PDF that I bought), which is out of line of the core defenses that increase in power by themselves AND have an option to take burn to increase them, but it's mostly an issue for the Overwhelming Soul, that CANNOT take burn at all, and therefor those elements become sub-par choices
Actually, this was intentional. The model used for these was the new elements in Occult Origin, and how they scale in level. The benefits of all three new element's defenses would be far too strong to auto scale in level while also allowing burn acceptable boosting, so I took this route to keep them in line with the power level of already established abilities. I mean light's still probably the best by far, but the way that these elements scale was intentional.
That particular tri-blast is not what I expected, but nice. I guess I got it in my head that you'd need three elements for a tri-composite blast.
There is actually 3 element blast (I think shatterstone blast is one), but remember the original tristalt was also a 2 element/1 element split, and there's a few more like that such as Meteor Blast (an idea I've been trying to work in since KOP 1), all of which should help the class along.
Also I remember why I haven't included your build into the guide yet, it only goes up to 11, and build guides are 1-20. I mean just reviewing it, I doubt I could have done better, so I can't comment too much on it, but if you want me to add it to the guide, I'd just expand the talent/feat selection to 20th (as I try to keep guide builds as simple as possible).
------------------------------------------------------------------------
And just made the sample character for this book, and first thoughts? Aether is the coolest element to use with Dimensional Ripper. Things like foe throw, friend throw, and telekinetic grasp (new talent) allowing you to throw people into dimensional tears has made for one of the most fun experiences I've had in forever.
For those of you wondering if I've been thorough on rulings with portals (which is very difficult), the description for Dimensional Rip is over 500 words, including rules for firing blast with a set area through them, rules on what happens if you make an infinite loop (don't do this), rules for making kinetic blade/whip attacks through them, and tons of others. And even with this, I'm certain I've STILL missed some that'll come up, but I also have 3 other sets of eyes on the project, so hopefully anything I've missed will be fixed.
Composite blast as a whole are more focused on here, as are composite utility wild talents, although seriously the pandora's box of ideas that concept has opened is enough that I could probably put out a KOP 4 based on those alone. Tristalts and composite utility wild talents are some of the new ideas coming in this book, and both are amazing. There's even some infusions that'll help out with people who have damage issues, lessening utility for the possibility of putting up far better damage numbers.
I'd honestly say this is the first KOP where I admit to power creep, but at the same time, most threads about it are begging for some kind of power creep, so I feel justified. I suppose it'll be up to everyone to decide if I've made the right decision here, but for now, I'll give the names of the new archetypes in this book:
Elemental Brethren Genie race exclusive
Corpse Puppeteer Viscera/void exclusive
Dread Soul Nonexclusive
Dimensional Ripper Aether/Time/Void exclusive.
So yeah, void just got a nice boost in its list of archetypes, each of its archetypes focusing on a different side of the element (C. Puppet for the negative side, and D. Rip for the gravity side).
And for other content, the brutal mutation is basically how I think the class should work. I would probably pick it on every character, even it's generally better for characters who get expanded element twice, and not just once. Sadly I had to give it a drawback, but I thikn it's fair.
I will remedy the build when I get home then. I know I have all the feats and relents written down somewhere.
|
|
Actually, this was intentional. The model used for these was the new elements in Occult Origin, and how they scale in level. The benefits of all three new element's defenses would be far too strong to auto scale in level while also allowing burn acceptable boosting, so I took this route to keep them in line with the power level of already established abilities. I mean light's still probably the best by far, but the way that these elements scale was intentional.
Well, to be completely honest, Occult Origins was pretty lackluster, especially the Defenses. Just comparing the base book to Origins, Flesh of Wood grants an AC bonus and doesn't increase by itself, whereas Water grants a choice of two difference AC bonuses (both higher than Flesh of Wood's bonus) that auto scale and can be increased via burn. Flesh of Stone gives you DR equal to half your level and can be increased via burn (I'd say that's rather powerful). Emptiness though, due to it's sloppy wording, can't even be increased more than once since it lacks the "can be used multiple times" line that is present in every other defense. Just saying, I don't think a lot of thought was put into that Occult Origins.
I really don't believe that scaling them with level and allowing for burn would be overpowering on any of your elements, so long as you did the scaling right.
Mostly though, I lament that I can't use Overwhelming Soul to make a Light or sound kineticist, as even though they both lend themselves well to charisma (what with the suggestions and illusions making for an interesting social character), they can never increase their defenses.
|
|
I will remedy the build when I get home then. I know I have all the feats and relents written down somewhere.
Sounds good, looking forward to it!
Well, to be completely honest, Occult Origins was pretty lackluster, especially the Defenses. Just comparing the base book to Origins, Flesh of Wood grants an AC bonus and doesn't increase by itself, whereas Water grants a choice of two difference AC bonuses (both higher than Flesh of Wood's bonus) that auto scale and can be increased via burn. Flesh of Stone gives you DR equal to half your level and can be increased via burn (I'd say that's rather powerful). Emptiness though, due to it's sloppy wording, can't even be increased more than once since it lacks the "can be used multiple times" line that is present in every other defense. Just saying, I don't think a lot of thought was put into that Occult Origins.
I really don't believe that scaling them with level and allowing for burn would be overpowering on any of your elements, so long as you did the scaling right.
Mostly though, I lament that I can't use Overwhelming Soul to make a Light or sound kineticist, as even though they both lend themselves well to charisma (what with the suggestions and illusions making for an interesting social character), they can never increase their defenses.
You won't find me as a staunch defender of O. Origins, although I appreciated the new direction in how to improve defenses. And yeah, wood/void's defenses weren't great, perhaps I'll make it a KOP 4 goal to fix them, as word count in KOP 3 is PACKED.
Your statement about overwhelming soul is a fair one, and while I'm not a fan of the archetype, I think a feat would help solve these issues, making OS slightly better than normal kineticist for these features. I've written something for KOP 3 as of reading this that should help with those issues, if you want I can PM it to you (I don't like posting unfinished content onto the boards), see what you think, hopefully we can come to an agreement that'll have an OS working wonders.
Definitely looking forward to KoP3, looking forward to an expansion on void and wood, which I think need it the most. Have a chaokineticist I'm working on for a game, and I wound up making my own utility talent to take at 2nd level due to lack of options (fortunately, my DM is willing to look over and approve homebrew material).
Something that you'll probably enjoy then is that all of the dimensional rip talents are aether, time and VOID, which gives void a lot of new tools to play around with. Counting the amount, void ends up with 3 new composites (hellfire and 2 other), 1 new infusion (we're running light on infusions this book), 12 new utility talents, and 4 new composite utility talents.
I think I might do some more spoilers for stuff later, although if we get a few more reviews, I might be persuaded to show off the stat block for the sample character, as well as her stats and tactics to give more of an idea what some of these class features can do.
|
|
Another thing that could possibly be solved by my checking but I'll ask anyways since there is a follow-up question- Is there any errata already?
Jeez, I actually missed a question that you had already about if there's an errata doc, and there actually is. I'm not sure if I should post that one, as that's a bit too 'behind the curtain', and a lot of it is clarification on typos and rules that need to be changed. Let me go see if I can find anything relevant from it to post here:
KOP 1 Errata
-Add line to ‘light blast’ about eruption only dealing ½ damage.
-Lower Negating infusion to 7th level and change to ‘Saving Throw: No’
-Add ‘if this space is filled with a solid object, dangerous terrain, or no solid ground…’ to Displacing Infusion’s description.
-Add the line ‘This rock can carry 200 lbs plus 20 additional lbs for each kineticist level you possess. This rock does 2d6 damage if dropped onto a creature.’ to the Earth Rider description
-Add ‘if you possess the extended range utility wild talent, you can increase the range you can move an ally up to 120 ft.’ to Friend Throw’s description
-Add ‘you must have line of sight to your destination’ to Light Speed Travel
-Add ‘if your clone is destroyed due to your explosive illusion talent, you are not forced to take burn’’ to Photo Doppelganger’s description
-Add ‘until you recover burn’ to Shroud of Darkness’s description
-Add ‘and increase the duration to 1 minute per 3 kineticist levels you possess’ to the end of Wood Prison’s description
-Change ‘for a number of rounds equal to your constitution modifier’ to ‘for 1 round’ in Toxic Barb’s description
-Add kinetic cover to light’s list of wild talents
-Increase Photo Doppelganger’s range to 300 ft.
KOP 2 Errata
-Remove ‘utility’ in crystal of elemental knowledge
-Clarify that preserved flesh doesn’t grant immunity to nonlethal damage
-Add friend throw to viscera’s talent list, caveat about incorporeal undead and constructs
-Add crippling infusion to viscera’s talent list
-Remove the word ‘infusion’ from extended infusion in the resonant detonation and attunement burst prerequisite, add “within 120 ft of you” to the description of the ability, and change “15-foot radius” to “15 ft. radius” in the description of the ability
-Change “Temporary hit points gained from this ability stack with those gained from other wild talents, but cannot be used to lower the cost of an infusion.” To “Temporary hit points gained from this ability stack with those gained from other wild talents, but temporary hit points gained from other wild talents cannot be used to lower the cost of an infusion.
-Change “You can accept 1 additional point of burn while using your kinetic healer talent” to “You can accept 1 additional point of burn while using your kinetic healer or regressive healing wild talent” in Kinetic Purification description.
-Change “You can select this utility wild talent up to 3 times.” To “This effect stacks with Elemental Overflow when determining your chance to ignore a critical hit or sneak attack damage.” To Petrified Innard’s description.
-Change “You can accept 1 burn” to “You can accept 1 burn as a swift or immediate action” to Skin Slough’s description.
-Change “Kinetic Blast 1d6” to “Any simple blast” in Brutal Blast’s prerequisites.
-Change “although the damage of their blast is reduced by 1 step (2 steps if they choose sonic).” To “although the damage of the converted blast is reduced by 1 step (2 steps if they choose sonic).” In Bracer’s of Elemental Conversion’s description
Most of it is clarifications, some slight tweaks that'll be impliented in future revisions.
And I think if either KOP 1, 2 or the Kinetic Codex (it's loosely in the KOP family) get a review either here, Drivethru RPG, or PFd20shop, I'll release the total amount of talents for each level. If we get 2, I could be persuaded to also give total for how many each element receive. And if we get 3, I might just be able to post the sample character, who is a dimensional ripper, to give everyone an idea of what you can expect from this class. If we somehow get more than that...I'll do something, I don't know. Personally, I'm just super amped for this book to come out, and I want to see it happen so soon, but while it's nearing the end of being written, there's still a ton of other stuff that has to be done.
And if anyone on Team KOP wants to talk about their fave stuff in the new book, go ahead and do so as long as you're not blatantly spoiling mechanics.
Hej Brian! One question, since I plan to playtest KOP 1 and 2 pretty soon - will the errata be incorporated in the pdf?
|
|
Hej Brian! One question, since I plan to playtest KOP 1 and 2 pretty soon - will the errata be incorporated in the pdf?
Actually, it's N./Ehn, I rarely like to go by my real name on the boards.
And yes, there's a much larger correction doc on the horizon, I'm simply waiting for Mark to give it the go ahead, since as we have KOP 3 to get out, we've got a lot on our plate at the moment. I have a feeling the errata doc will be applied to the books before too long though, along with the link to the FAQ doc being linked with the books as well, as Shiroi has been amazing about helping me compile it.
I'll have to send you a PM about why the errata is being held off, as the actual reason is a part of something that I'm not at liberty to discuss at large. Suffice it to say that incorporating all of the errata/corrections/typo fixes and such will be a larger project than one would expect.
Looking forward to what you think though, I've been having a blast writing these, especially with the slow growth of Team KOP to help me. It all started with Mort and I talking in a doc, and now I've got a great group of people together who have been amazing about making sure I don't print garbage.
P.(ost) S.(cript) Once Mort puts out her Kinetic Tome, I'd suggest checking out that as well, myself and Onyx are helping on that one, which thankfully means it'll avoid a lot of overlap between KOP content and itself.
Will we be getting any more previews for this book?
|
|
Will we be getting any more previews for this book?
I'd say depending on how long it takes to put out, I might see about getting more done, but at the moment it's not a huge priority, as things are syncing together with everything pretty well at the moment.
I think I can say that Elemental Brethren might be broken for Undyne who have good stats for the class, but for everyone else, EB breaks about even seeing as how little synergy there is with racial abilities.
Dread Soul is still getting some tweaking at the moment, the power level needs to be played with a bit. It's hard to balance something with mechanics as unique as this.
Dimensional Ripper feels about finished, as does corpse puppeteer, but I still need the rest of the team to look over things before we go any further with the project.
The bulk of this project is being taken up by utility wild talents though, and while you'll get more out of the book by owning KOP 1/2, you don't need either to enjoy KOP 3.
Cool, also is there going to be another update after kineticists of porphyra 3 comes out like with the other two??
|
|
Cool, also is there going to be another update after kineticists of porphyra 3 comes out like with the other two??
Probably, seeing as there's no way of me making sure that there won't be problems, but I'm willing to fix things when they're messed up.
And since we got a new review on KOP 2, let me give a level breakdown of all the new talents (that aren't archetype exclusive or reprints):
1st: 20 (3 infusions, 17 utility wild talents)
2nd: 18 (0 infusions, 14 utility wild talents [4 elemental saturation])
3rd: 29 (4 infusions, 25 utility wild talents [1 elemental saturation])
4th: 11 (2 infusions, 9 utility wild talents)
5th: 4 (2 infusions, 2 utility wild talents)
6th: 6 (1 infusion, 5 utility wild talents)
7th: 1 (0 infusions, 1 utility wild talent)
8th: 1 (0 infusions, 1 utility wild talent)
9th: 0 (0 infusions, 0 utility wild talents)
Total: 88 (12 infusions, 76 utility wild talents)
If anything from the KOP family gets another review, I'll also give an elemental breakdown, although this should show you just how much I've tried to make early levels that much easier. As before, there's going to be some reprints, but it's to make the material useable by people who haven't picked up KOP 1 or 2. I want this to be as inclusive as possible, even for people new to series.
And if anyone on Team KOP wants to talk about their fave stuff in the new book, go ahead and do so as long as you're not blatantly spoiling mechanics.
There is no question for me that making something for disabled adventurers was a highlight. Anything that lets you roleplay someone with visible injuries or looses is really cool and it was implimented in a surprisingly viable way by not taking away key resources.
I have a question about the Void element. Why did they make Emptiness so bad, and how are races like the dhampir supposed salvage it to be not as bad?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
And if anyone on Team KOP wants to talk about their fave stuff in the new book, go ahead and do so as long as you're not blatantly spoiling mechanics.There is no question for me that making something for disabled adventurers was a highlight. Anything that lets you roleplay someone with visible injuries or looses is really cool and it was implimented in a surprisingly viable way by not taking away key resources.
You could even say the differently-abled might get a leg up on some other kineticists. *hur hur*
Also, it's quite a coincidence that N. Jolly mentioned Hellfire Blast, as it's thematically linked with my favorite new archetype in the upcoming book. I don't wanna give away too much about it, but I'll just say it's so much sweeter when you can convince others to pay for things in your place. Especially when it leads to a big rock on your hand.
|
|
There is no question for me that making something for disabled adventurers was a highlight. Anything that lets you roleplay someone with visible injuries or looses is really cool and it was implemented in a surprisingly viable way by not taking away key resources.
Oh yeah, that one. It's gotten a buff as well to act as a free conduit glove. It was always one of those "why didn't we write that sooner" kind of talents to me, although there's a ton of those in this book, things that shouldn't have been held back until the 3rd one, but that we just didn't have enough awareness of how to write at the time (literally the story of elemental mutations).
While I'm personally a big fan of the basic ___kinesis stuff, I do really appreciate that we now have options for replacing them. I'm sure a lot of people will be pleased to see a more tailored level 1, that isn't forced to take a particular ability right at the start. If I had to pick one new thing to talk about for this book that hasn't already been mentioned, that's probably one of the neater intrigue points.
In the meantime, I've personally had a great time watching KOP grow, and especially enjoyed being able to offer a hand in shaping KOP3. I really hope it reaches the same level of community recognition as the first two, because it follows their example well in fixing old problems and offering new choices to kineticists. Thank you for giving me a chance to be part of the project, I'm looking forward to poking through the overflow dock for a possible KOP4. :)
Those were actually started because of the talent Mort's talking about, mostly because if you're going to play a disabled adventurer, I was certain that you'd need a way to still play with the rest of the party from the beginning, and the idea sort of evolved from there. I'll admit they're not all equal (wood's is AWESOME), but I think it's an idea that needed to happen eventually.
Also, it's quite a coincidence that N. Jolly mentioned Hellfire Blast, as it's thematically linked with my favorite new archetype in the upcoming book. I don't wanna give away too much about it, but I'll just say it's so much sweeter when you can convince others to pay for things in your place. Especially when it leads to a big rock on your hand.
That's basically your archetype. I had up a crappy framework that had a completely different end goal before you added your notes and completely flipped the script on me. But everything you had up was just so good that I scrapped the old idea and just ran with what you had, and I think it's a better book because of it (even if we did run super long).
------------------------------------------------------------------------
KOP is a funny thing, and I think I'll ramble for a bit here.
Elemental Homie(?): Does an element thing *GUITAR SOLO*
Then I'll add at least a few utility wild talents I have stuck in my head from whatever I watched most recently.
Elemental GUN
Element(s) GUN(?); Type awesome (Sp/u); Level X; Burn maybe?
You totally make a sweet gun, maybe it shoots fire? That'd be sick.
And I do that until it's at about nine thousand words.
Mort's generally on the project first because I show her random crap on skype and ask "is it broken?" to which she replies "The hell am I looking at?", which is my cue to realize I've written something dumb, and go back to fix it. Repeat this ABOUT nine thousand times. This is all while helping with Mort's project, to which I'm looking forward to everyone seeing once it's finished. It's a lot more of a departure from KOP, but I consider them vaguely related, like a distant cousin who went to art school and won't stop smoking cloves.
Once I hit 9k or so and the book has a solid enough basis, I bring in Onyx. The reason I originally brought Onyx onto the team was because with the first book, they would pull apart EVERYTHING, which as a writer is both annoying as hell AND useful as hell. Rather than get angry, I figured they were onto something this time, and asked if they wanted to help with KOP 2 so if they were going to nitpick at me, I could make sure the book was better for it. And it has DRASTICALLY improved because of them.
This time I brought along Shiroi as well, since I'd worked on some of their homebrew with them, and they were capable of letting me know when my word choice was being a dumb thing. You know, like there. It's been a good experience overall, and they've helped up the quality of the book like everyone else but in a different way, one that wasn't getting as much attention beforehand. They also helped me compile the FAQ doc, which will be included in the project.
Personally, even though they didn't have time to help with everything, I still consider Texas Snyper a part of the team too, and I hope we'll be able to work something out to help with later books. The KOP overflow doc is large enough to the point where we have a good jump on a possible KOP 4. I really thought I'd be done after KOP 3, but with the overflow doc as healthy as it is, if KOP 3's sales are anywhere close to 1 and 2, we'll be seeing it come out eventually.
So really, thanks to Team KOP for helping to keep me from looking stupid, you're all the best.
P.S. My fave thing from the new book is obviously Dimensional Ripper, which got WAY too much time and word count put into it, but is awesome and amazing.
That's basically your archetype. I had up a crappy framework that had a completely different end goal before you added your notes and completely flipped the script on me. But everything you had up was just so good that I scrapped the old idea and just ran with what you had, and I think it's a better book because of it (even if we did run super long).
I swear, my intent wasn't to usurp the archetype. I just happened to see the one thing and thought it'd be something interesting to expand upon. Damn, now I kinda wanna know where you were originally gonna take it.
Once I hit 9k or so and the book has a solid enough basis, I bring in Onyx. The reason I originally brought Onyx onto the team was because with the first book, they would pull apart EVERYTHING, which as a writer is both annoying as hell AND useful as hell. Rather than get angry, I figured they were onto something this time, and asked if they wanted to help with KOP 2 so if they were going to nitpick at me, I could make sure the book was better for it. And it has DRASTICALLY improved because of them.
Bruh, that's one of the biggest compliments you could've given me. Including the part about being annoying. XD Seriously, I do appreciate it, as well as the opportunity to help work on this series.
P.S. My fave thing from the new book is obviously Dimensional Ripper, which got WAY too much time and word count put into it, but is awesome and amazing.
Agreed, that did turn out quite well, even if it took a lot to hammer out. I think a lot of people will be excited to test it out.
|
|
So you know how I said we were talking sometime around may to june for KOP 3?...I might have been being a bit conservative...
Also KOP 1 beat Path of War Expanded, and I am humbled by that. I'm on the top 10 in 3 different slots, and I thank everyone on team KOP 3 for this. You're all awesome!
So does that mean that kineticists of porphyra III is out already, or is that just a teaser?
It is available at Rpgnow... right now. It is loaded to Paizo but products here need to be manually activated so it might not go live until Monday or Tuesday.
|
|
I'm sure it'll hit Paizo soon enough. As of now though, all of the content in KOP III has been added to the guide as a preview for those who'd like to see some of the new content available. I'll hopefully find someone else to do the reviews for it with the guide, but if I can't, I don't mind reviewing my own work again. As people can see from KOP 2's reviews, I wasn't softballing myself.
I'm really looking forward to doing the Dev post for this one, as we got a lot of people coming in and helping with this product, and it was a ton of a fun to do.
So, I love the dimensional ripper (anything that makes aether more awesome is golden), but I've noticed aether doesn't get a composite with this archetype, is that intended?
I don't understand the last sentence of Hyper-dimensional blast: what does it mean when it says "the object used for this blast
cannot be thrown"?
Do you think it would be too much to give a free upgrade to greater teleport at lvl 16 in the long distance travel wild talent?
|
|
So, I love the dimensional ripper (anything that makes aether more awesome is golden), but I've noticed aether doesn't get a composite with this archetype, is that intended?
I don't understand the last sentence of Hyper-dimensional blast: what does it mean when it says "the object used for this blast
cannot be thrown"?Do you think it would be too much to give a free upgrade to greater teleport at lvl 16 in the long distance travel wild talent?
Dimensional Ripper is awesome. And they do get expanded element, so aether can get a 'faux' composite blast, but not really a full one. Originally the archetype was going to work like my others (expanded at 10th), but there was seriously so much I had to push into this archetype that the expanded element got pushed back towards 15th. So in a way it was intentional, but more out of convenience rather than balancing.
As for thrown, remember that aether can involve throwing an object when loosening the etheric strings on it, which is what that was meant to cover, since we had to account for everything you could do.
And I really don't think it would, seeing as there'll be an update doc coming up after this that'll include a few more talents (I don't know HOW one of the dimensional ripper talents got left out), and I'd be fine with including one that did just that. Part of me wanted to include light in the dimensional ripper family, and I'm seriously thinking about doing that, updating hyper-dimensional to include light as well.
If you enjoyed the book, feel free to leave a rating for it. I'm really looking forward to it hitting Paizo soon!
It's a trade of utility for damage then?
Because a void/void dimensional ripper (or a light/light one if you add it) will have much more damage while light will still get the utility of the illusions and if I remember correctly, time/time still deals more damage while having really good utiliy.
EDIT: I think it's good that only single element can do that (more damage, less diversity) but not that aether cant.
|
|
It's a trade of utility for damage then?
Because a void/void dimensional ripper (or a light/light one if you add it) will have much more damage while light will still get the utility of the illusions and if I remember correctly, time/time still deals more damage while having really good utiliy.
Basically. During the playtesting I did with it, the amount of awesome things D. Ripper can do with utility wild talents plus rips is just too good. Friend throwing people through portals, telekinetic grasping them through them, and everything else gives aether some of the BEST tools to abuse this.
Consider that vs. void, which has either high gravity infusion, low gravity infusion, or gravity master, all of which lack the same kind of versatility compared to what aether can do with rips.
Same with time, but even more so. Time just doesn't get anything to play with, although it does get its old tools to help manipulate opponents, so it's not a total wash.
Personally, I think light would be a cool addition to the family with the increased potential for kinetic cover with it, but in the end, it was really an issue of utility vs. damage. If a D. Ripper goes into void, they could pick up the Composite Blast Technique feat and snag Void blast too, so they can still get the same power, it'll just require a bit more expenditure of resources, which I think is fair for the silly awesome things it can do with telekinesis and rips.
I can't seem to find composite blast training anywhere. If you meant composite blast technique I don't see how you can get void blast... unless you go void/aether into composite blast techique for void blast? But then you delay your awesome telekinetic powers to lvl 15 and I don't think you can take enough aether wild talents to make telekineis awesome?
|
|
I can't seem to find composite blast training anywhere. If you meant composite blast technique I don't see how you can get void blast... unless you go void/aether into composite blast techique for void blast? But then you delay your awesome telekinetic powers to lvl 15 and I don't think you can take enough aether wild talents to make telekineis awesome?
Yeah, sorry that's what I meant. The name switched around a bit while I was writing it. The wording was changed around a bit, which threw me off.
I'd say if you were going to go like that, you could start void, go brutal mutation (which dev notes here is how I think the class SHOULD work by default), retrain some feats into EWT a few times, and you're good.
With Basic Kinetic Training, you could snag Basic Telekinesis early, you're getting the prereqs for things, and then you can use the retraining of the class itself to swap out some of the talents you're not using anymore for more telekinetic goodness, although I suppose you're still giving up on a good amount of potential kinetic powers since there's so many solid telekineticist powers to snag.
So really, it does boil down to if you want to do awesome things like foe throw someone through a rip at 5th level (taking Kinetic Prodigy to qualify for Foe Throw early) or if you want the gravity/necromancer feel of void. But really, it's good game design to make people want to take different options rather than making a clear goal, and there's a LOT of different ways you can build a D. Ripper, especially with all of the D. Ripper exclusive talents.
I think I really wanted to find a way to make pure aether worthwile and I wanted it to be the dimensional ripper. As is I still can't find it in me not to expand into another element.
As I was doing the dishes I thought of a thing I would expect the dimensional ripper to do, going to other planes. If a wild talent I think it would be too situational... maybe folded into an improved long distance travel that granted greater teleport and plane shift as an 8th level talent?
|
|
I think I really wanted to find a way to make pure aether worthwile and I wanted it to be the dimensional ripper. As is I still can't find it in me not to expand into another element.
As I was doing the dishes I thought of a thing I would expect the dimensional ripper to do, going to other planes. If a wild talent I think it would be too situational... maybe folded into an improved long distance travel that granted greater teleport and plane shift as an 8th level talent?
I could see doing something like that. I think you could still go pure aether and make a solid ripper, you just won't have the best blast to go along with it. On the flip side, you have plenty of gather energy/supercharge free burn to quicken or double another blast, so you can still put up a lot of damage regardless. I think I'll probably include an expanded feat that lets you basically use CBT for your expanded element in the revamp.
And yeah, a talent like that wouldn't be a bad idea. As with all my books, in the revamp I will be adding a bit of content, so I'm fine with getting pitches as long as it's not too word intensive, as KOP 3 is a massive book already.
Now available at Paizo
|
|
Now available at Paizo
Awesome, let's shoot for the top ten this week too! I'll be giving my dev post in a little bit, and just like always, I'll be collecting information on errors and such, throwing them into the edit doc, taking your ideas for new talents for something to throw in, and everything else that I do to make sure you're all totally set to dominate with this awesome class.
Thanks to Mark, Perry, and Team KOP for helping make this book amazing!
Also wow, 300 post and only a third of them are mine! Crazy how big this thread has gotten.