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So, I was wondering If as a PC you can ready an action to high jump if someone approaches during combat to attack you.
Normally it wouldn't be too crazy of a readied action as The dc to jump a couple of feet into the air isn't game breaking.
With a Dice roll total of 20, at most a PC would be jumping 5 feet into the air to only fall back to the ground instantaneously.
HOWEVER, I'm thinking of a Grippli LV5 Ninja/1 Far Strike Monk build.
Scroll down if you want to answer the simple question, or continue to read if you want the explanation:
Ki Pool Powers of a ninja:
As long as she has at least 1 point in her ki pool, she treats any Acrobatics skill check made to jump as if she had a running start.
Ninja Tricks:
Acrobatics Master: Use 1 ki point to get a +20 on an acrobatic check
High Jumper: DC to jump High is reduced by half.
Skill Check
Lv 6 = +13 to acrobatics (straightforward with no optimization and 18 Dex)
3 Favored Class Bonus + 6 ranks + 4 Dex
High Jump DC
5ft = 20DC (10DC with high jumper ninja trick)
10Ft = 40DC (20DC with High Jumper Ninja Trick)
15FT = 60 DC (30DC with high Jumper Ninja Trick)
20FT = 80 DC (40DC with high jumper ninja trick)
So on a natural 2 and 1 ki point, a grippli would get 35 on his acrobatics check.
BUT WAIT there's more
Glider(racial trait): Gripplis' aerodynamic bodies and thick webbing between the toes enable a falling grippli to treat the distance fallen as half the actual distance. The grippli can steer himself while falling, moving horizontally up to a number of feet equal to half the vertical distance fallen. The grippli cannot use this trait if it is wearing heavy armor, is carrying a heavy load, or is unable to react to the fall (such as being helpless). This racial trait replaces swamp stride.
So on a dice roll of 7, this grippli would be able to jump 20 feet into the air, and then glide 10 feet to the side, counting as he had fallen 10 feet.
Not to mention that at level 10 a ninja reduces the DC to jump by half again.
So,
Can you ready an action to high jump if an enemy comes up to attack you?
I'm pretty sure you can do this. You'd probably provoke an attack of opportunity if you tried to jump while they're in melee range. You'd want to ready the action to jump when they're 10 feet away from you to avoid this.
I wonder if you can acrobatics to prevent an AOO for using acrobatics... but the 10 feet sounds like a good rule of thumb.
though strike me if I am wrong, could you incorporate a 5 foot step as part as a readied action?
You can only 5-foot step with a readied action if you performed no other movement in that round. I'd say jumping 20ish feet in the air qualifies as movement.
Death from above! Strike from Space! Moving this from a readied action to a move + standard action, you could jump, attack their head as you come down in their square: you get +1 for attacking from higher ground, but then have to eat the AoO and be auto shifted to one square adjacent to them.
Or, for non-society play, ask your GM for permission to modify the Mouser underfoot assault action to include the readied action to a jump, then land in their space. I'd allow it for rule of cool. And if you do it when they come within 10', then you get your jump, their AoO, and you end up in their space - possibly not where they wanted to stop. They enemy gets a penalty to attack other party members, and if they try to move and leave you behind, you get an AoO on them.
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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If you do this when someone charges you, you can complete negate their attack, since a charge has to be in a straight line and you can glide to a spot that wouldn't be in a straight line once they already started their charge.
As for using offensively, combining with spring attack seems wise to get the +1 for attacking from higher ground without provoking an AoO.
The 2nd feat in the Monkey Style chain (Monkey Moves) lets you use a jump as a 5-foot step. That could be kind of useful for this character build.
Leaving aside the readied action, there is one big problem with this concept, in that by the rules, it takes no time to fall back down (even when gliding) this is all just part of the readied action movement.
As such, whether you can jump or not mechanically doesn't make much difference, as after your readied action you are still on the ground, somewhere fairly close, and almost certainly no farther than you would have been if you just moved in a regular manner.
Unless you can jump up on to something, jumping as defense is no more effective than moving as defense.
This is for a grippli, and they have a climb speed. Jumping up to the ceiling or wall out of reach and spidermaning is an option.Unless you can jump up on to something, jumping as defense is no more effective than moving as defense.
Add in Slippers of Spider Climbing and it'll be good upside down as well
Dave Justus has a good point about jumping as defense, you could get the racial glide ability to give yourself a little more distance
Death from above! Strike from Space! Moving this from a readied action to a move + standard action, you could jump, attack their head as you come down in their square: you get +1 for attacking from higher ground, but then have to eat the AoO and be auto shifted to one square adjacent to them.
Or, for non-society play, ask your GM for permission to modify the Mouser underfoot assault action to include the readied action to a jump, then land in their space. I'd allow it for rule of cool. And if you do it when they come within 10', then you get your jump, their AoO, and you end up in their space - possibly not where they wanted to stop. They enemy gets a penalty to attack other party members, and if they try to move and leave you behind, you get an AoO on them.
Oh dang! thats a really good idea! If I pick up mobility, I can get a +4ac to my "movement" AOO.
The 2nd feat in the Monkey Style chain (Monkey Moves) lets you use a jump as a 5-foot step. That could be kind of useful for this character build.
This is actually pretty revalent since I want wisdom to be second highest on the account of stacking monk ac, with dex ac.
Not to mention I would already have Improved Unarmed Strike from the dip!
Leaving aside the readied action, there is one big problem with this concept, in that by the rules, it takes no time to fall back down (even when gliding) this is all just part of the readied action movement.
As such, whether you can jump or not mechanically doesn't make much difference, as after your readied action you are still on the ground, somewhere fairly close, and almost certainly no farther than you would have been if you just moved in a regular manner.
Unless you can jump up on to something, jumping as defense is no more effective than moving as defense.
well also to extrapolate, a lv 10 ninja
Jumping 40feet into the air would be a DC 40. (normally DC160, or DC80, but a 10th level ninja cuts Jump DC's by half again.
And nothing is said about sailing down on a straight line, I could in theory glide towards or around a pillar or wall. or Grab said wall or pillar because a grippli has a climb speed.
This is for a grippli, and they have a climb speed. Jumping up to the ceiling or wall out of reach and spidermaning is an option.Unless you can jump up on to something, jumping as defense is no more effective than moving as defense.
Add in Slippers of Spider Climbing and it'll be good upside down as well
Dave Justus has a good point about jumping as defense, you could get the racial glide ability to give yourself a little more distance
Woah, This is actually pretty cool considering Im thinking of going flurry of blows with shruikens, so I could jump X amount of feet to touch the ceiling, and then throw shruikens and mooks.
You can ready a move action to jump, but you can't use a Ki point to increase your jumping because that is a swift action, and you can't use a swift action out of turn.
That is incorrect. You can perform a swift action Any time you can perform a free action, and you can perform a free action during a readied action, as long as you haven't used a swift or immediate action since your last complete turn.
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That is incorrect. You can perform a swift action Any time you can perform a free action, and you can perform a free action during a readied action, as long as you haven't used a swift or immediate action since your last complete turn.You can ready a move action to jump, but you can't use a Ki point to increase your jumping because that is a swift action, and you can't use a swift action out of turn.
The combat chapter of the CRB disagrees with you.
Swift Action: A swift action consumes a very small amount of time, but represents a larger expenditure of effort and energy than a free action. You can perform only a single swift action per turn.
Immediate Action: An immediate action is very similar to a swift action, but can be performed at any time—even if it's not your turn.
You can only use a Swift action on your turn.
That is incorrect. You can perform a swift action Any time you can perform a free action, and you can perform a free action during a readied action, as long as you haven't used a swift or immediate action since your last complete turn.You can ready a move action to jump, but you can't use a Ki point to increase your jumping because that is a swift action, and you can't use a swift action out of turn.
The combat chapter of the CRB disagrees with you.
You can only use a Swift action on your turn.Swift Action: A swift action consumes a very small amount of time, but represents a larger expenditure of effort and energy than a free action. You can perform only a single swift action per turn.
Immediate Action: An immediate action is very similar to a swift action, but can be performed at any time—even if it's not your turn.
Well I suppose that is a let down, which would require proper prediction as Acrobatic Master states
"As a swift action, a ninja with this trick can focus her ki to grant her a +20 bonus on one Acrobatics check of her choice made before the start of her next turn. Using this ability expends 1 ki point from her ki pool."
So you could use it as a gamble by using a swift action on your turn to activate acrobatic master, and then ready an action to jump.
Actually, a free action or swift action must be readied as its own action. You might be thinking of a 5-foot step, which can be taken along with any other readied action.That is incorrect. You can perform a swift action Any time you can perform a free action, and you can perform a free action during a readied action, as long as you haven't used a swift or immediate action since your last complete turn.You can ready a move action to jump, but you can't use a Ki point to increase your jumping because that is a swift action, and you can't use a swift action out of turn.
I suspect Paladin of Baha-who? was thinking of this sentence further on in the description of swift actions.
Swift Actions
A swift action consumes a very small amount of time, but represents a larger expenditure of effort than a free action. You can perform one swift action per turn without affecting your ability to perform other actions. In that regard, a swift action is like a free action. You can, however, perform only one single swift action per turn, regardless of what other actions you take. You can take a swift action anytime you would normally be allowed to take a free action. Swift actions usually involve spellcasting, activating a feat, or the activation of magic items.
I've seen this line quoted often on these boards without the context clarifying that Swift Actions are still limited to your own turn. The description of Immediate Actions makes this limitation clear.
Immediate Actions
Much like a swift action, an immediate action consumes a very small amount of time but represents a larger expenditure of effort and energy than a free action. However, unlike a swift action, an immediate action can be performed at any time—even if it's not your turn. Casting feather fall is an immediate action, since the spell can be cast at any time.
The next time they revise the CRB they should change the line to "You can take a swift action anytime during your turn that you would normally be allowed to take a free action." It would probably resolve a lot of confusion.
Free actions are normally limited to your turn as well, except for special cases like speaking.
It is possible to ready free actions and swift actions, but you need to ready them as their own action. You can't just add them onto any other action you ready.
You can ready a standard action, a move action, a swift action, or a free action.
I wasn't disagreeing with you on the use of Swift Actions outside of your turn. I was trying to explain why other people are commonly confused on this issue. I have run across the argument that "You can take a swift action anytime you would normally be allowed to take a free action," and speaking is a free action you can perform out of turn, so you can perform a swift action out of turn.
I wasn't disagreeing with you on the use of Swift Actions outside of your turn. I was trying to explain why other people are commonly confused on this issue. I have run across the argument that "You can take a swift action anytime you would normally be allowed to take a free action," and speaking is a free action you can perform out of turn, so you can perform a swift action out of turn.Free actions are normally limited to your turn as well, except for special cases like speaking.
It is possible to ready free actions and swift actions, but you need to ready them as their own action. You can't just add them onto any other action you ready.
You can ready a standard action, a move action, a swift action, or a free action.
I mean, if one wants to just read up on swift actions, its easy to see why they could be confused as to performing them at any time.
I wasn't disagreeing with you on the use of Swift Actions outside of your turn. I was trying to explain why other people are commonly confused on this issue. I have run across the argument that "You can take a swift action anytime you would normally be allowed to take a free action," and speaking is a free action you can perform out of turn, so you can perform a swift action out of turn.Free actions are normally limited to your turn as well, except for special cases like speaking.
It is possible to ready free actions and swift actions, but you need to ready them as their own action. You can't just add them onto any other action you ready.
You can ready a standard action, a move action, a swift action, or a free action.I mean, if one wants to just read up on swift actions, its easy to see why they could be confused as to performing them at any time.
I agree.
More on topic, I love this idea of yours. It's very Yoda.
When you begin performing your readied sction, is it not then your turn?
When you begin performing your readied sction, is it not then your turn?
I don't believe it is.
Ready
The ready action lets you prepare to take an action later, after your turn is over but before your next one has begun. Readying is a standard action. It does not provoke an attack of opportunity (though the action that you ready might do so).
Then that would imply you also cannot take free actions during a readied action, unless they are among the subset of readied actions that are usable with things like attacks of opportunity. So one could not use quick draw to draw a weapon during a readied action. One could not drop a held item or weapon during a readied action. Barbarians cannot enter rage. Investigators cannot use inspiration. Are you sure you agree with those consequences?
This all feels correct,looks like the ki point has to come on your turn before you ready the action. It's good for getting out of charge lanes and such, if you're willing to sacrifice your turn to do so. In some ways it can buy you a single turn of immunity, by putting your move after their (now failed) attack instead of before it. If you planned to move somewhere anyways, this is a good way to handle it in some cases.
I do feel it lacks proper "insanity" to be called a crazy build, but you could fix that with sneak attack dice and maybe some teamwork feat that deals with attacking from high and low that I vaguely remember? And the feat where you charge from dropping and deal major damage. For an indoors campaign (cave systems, forests, buildings) with lots of overhead topography? I can see this getting annoying for your enemies. Granted you only really do damage every other turn, and so do they, which means you're focused on delay tactics and distracting people from the real heavy hitters of your party.
I feel with mobility, and being hard to hit would be a fun class to play. And as stated before a level 10 ninja could reduce the high jump dc by half again gaining more height and more gliding. repositioning is always good for trying to get some sneak attack damage or flanking in.
Crazy optimal? Not really.
Crazy fun? Yeah :p
Then that would imply you also cannot take free actions during a readied action, unless they are among the subset of readied actions that are usable with things like attacks of opportunity. So one could not use quick draw to draw a weapon during a readied action. One could not drop a held item or weapon during a readied action. Barbarians cannot enter rage. Investigators cannot use inspiration. Are you sure you agree with those consequences?
That does seem to be what the rules say.
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Woah, This is actually pretty cool considering Im thinking of going flurry of blows with shruikens, so I could jump X amount of feet to touch the ceiling, and then throw shruikens and mooks.
Being a touch pedantic (always a risk for people drawn to look at Rules forums), I read this and processed as written, rather than using the "at" that was likely intended.
And I have to say, that as a character concept while playing a Grippli monk has very little appeal to me, playing a Gripplie monk who throw shurikens and mooks is indeed a crazy awesome build.
Fernn, please know that I find your ideas intriguing and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
I don't see anything in the rules that would prevent a swift action (or a free action) being done as part of a readied action. I'll admit it isn't spelled out in big bold letters that you can, but reading the entire action rules as a whole it certainly seems to me that whenever you can take another action you can take a free or swift action (assuming you haven't already used your swift).
A readied action is a special initiative action, which doesn't exactly make it 'your turn' but certainly does allow you do to things that aren't allowed unless it is your turn. Free actions (5 foot step is singled out) would be included and so should swift. A readied action is, in effect a special 'your turn' with only limited (predeclared) choices.
The difference between a swift and immediate action, is that you don't need to have an action (whether from it being your turn or being part of a readied action etc.) so you can use it totally reactively.
This reminded me of a idea I wanted to try, which is could you throw bombs while gliding as a grippli. Then you could be a gliding bomber. It gets weirder but I'll save that for another day.
Also in my opinion you could, but I would think it might take 2 different acrobatics rolls.
This reminded me of a idea I wanted to try, which is could you throw bombs while gliding as a grippli. Then you could be a gliding bomber. It gets weirder but I'll save that for another day.
Also in my opinion you could, but I would think it might take 2 different acrobatics rolls.
I actually had a grippli alchemist that basically did this, but i had an extra limb (tentacle) coming out of the back of my head that i used for the actual dropping.
Does anyone know if there is a rule/feat that allows for an attack at the apex of a jump? as in jump>attack>stick-the-landing? (i was going to make a new thread about it but i'll ask here first)
Woah, This is actually pretty cool considering Im thinking of going flurry of blows with shruikens, so I could jump X amount of feet to touch the ceiling, and then throw shruikens and mooks.Being a touch pedantic (always a risk for people drawn to look at Rules forums), I read this and processed as written, rather than using the "at" that was likely intended.
And I have to say, that as a character concept while playing a Grippli monk has very little appeal to me, playing a Gripplie monk who throw shurikens and mooks is indeed a crazy awesome build.
Fernn, please know that I find your ideas intriguing and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
I guess to have that working for a grippli, I would have to get titan mauler, and then the body bludgeon/hurling rage power. And also invest into some grappling feats.
Turn 1. Grapple foe.
Turn 2. Make sure I am not encumbered and jump (Activate rage for some added strength.) grab the ceiling with my feet (Slippers of Spider Climbing)
Turn 3. Double take three times! 1! 2! 3! Then bring it around town, bring it around town. Hurl enemy at enemy.
This reminded me of a idea I wanted to try, which is could you throw bombs while gliding as a grippli. Then you could be a gliding bomber. It gets weirder but I'll save that for another day.
Also in my opinion you could, but I would think it might take 2 different acrobatics rolls.
I actually had a grippli alchemist that basically did this, but i had an extra limb (tentacle) coming out of the back of my head that i used for the actual dropping.
Does anyone know if there is a rule/feat that allows for an attack at the apex of a jump? as in jump>attack>stick-the-landing? (i was going to make a new thread about it but i'll ask here first)
from what I have discovered
"Pathfinder has a Fly skill. Most people don't have it, but there is one. Make a Fly skill check - if you hit 10 you get one attack, and you get an additional attack for every 5 points over 10.This assumes it's a deliberate thing - like "jumping" instead of "falling" - if a monster did the teleport as a surprise this check would be 5 points harder.
You can maybe sub in Acrobatics, but again at 5 points harder on the check."
from what I have discovered
"Pathfinder has a Fly skill. Most people don't have it, but there is one. Make a Fly skill check - if you hit 10 you get one attack, and you get an additional attack for every 5 points over 10.
This assumes it's a deliberate thing - like "jumping" instead of "falling" - if a monster did the teleport as a surprise this check would be 5 points harder.
You can maybe sub in Acrobatics, but again at 5 points harder on the check."
well, i know there is a feat called Flyby Attack that lets you do this sort of thing for flying (even though its a monster feat now) but im looking for an equivalent jumping version (im going to go start a new thread about it now if you do find anything)
if there is one it would also go pretty well with your grippli monk jumper
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from what I have discovered
"Pathfinder has a Fly skill. Most people don't have it, but there is one. Make a Fly skill check - if you hit 10 you get one attack, and you get an additional attack for every 5 points over 10.
This assumes it's a deliberate thing - like "jumping" instead of "falling" - if a monster did the teleport as a surprise this check would be 5 points harder.
You can maybe sub in Acrobatics, but again at 5 points harder on the check."well, i know there is a feat called Flyby Attack that lets you do this sort of thing for flying (even though its a monster feat now) but im looking for an equivalent jumping version (im going to go start a new thread about it now if you do find anything)
if there is one it would also go pretty well with your grippli monk jumper
Spring Attack should work. It is actually better then Flyby attack as it prevents the AOOs.
Grab some Boots of Striding and Springing for more fun.
You get a speed enhancement of +10', which gives you +4 racial bonus for jumping.
You also get a +5 competence bonus for jumping.
So, for the low, low, , price of 5,500 gp, you can bump your jump skill by +9.
Much better than an Improved Ring of Jumping at 10,000 gp for just +10 on the skill.
On the other hand, as a 10th level ninja, you are using invisible blade to attack?
/cevah
Grab some Boots of Striding and Springing for more fun.
You get a speed enhancement of +10', which gives you +4 racial bonus for jumping.
You also get a +5 competence bonus for jumping.
So, for the low, low, , price of 5,500 gp, you can bump your jump skill by +9.Much better than an Improved Ring of Jumping at 10,000 gp for just +10 on the skill.
On the other hand, as a 10th level ninja, you are using invisible blade to attack?
/cevah
Does an enhancement bonus increase your base speed? Because I always read it as not increasing base speed but adding on to it, therefore not giving a bonus to jump checks as it's called out to use base speed. If I'm wrong then my monk will start being a lot jumpier.
Good question. Wish I knew.
I think it does. However, they probably don't want mere running to change your bonus, so they could not use "speed" since that can vary based on the form of movement you use.
/cevah
Does an enhancement bonus increase your base speed? Because I always read it as not increasing base speed but adding on to it, therefore not giving a bonus to jump checks as it's called out to use base speed. If I'm wrong then my monk will start being a lot jumpier.Grab some Boots of Striding and Springing for more fun.
You get a speed enhancement of +10', which gives you +4 racial bonus for jumping.
You also get a +5 competence bonus for jumping.
So, for the low, low, , price of 5,500 gp, you can bump your jump skill by +9.Much better than an Improved Ring of Jumping at 10,000 gp for just +10 on the skill.
On the other hand, as a 10th level ninja, you are using invisible blade to attack?
/cevah
I've been looking at making a sylph character and wondering the same thing. The Wings of Air feat grants them a fly speed equal to their base speed, and I've been trying to figure out if enhancing your base speed would also affect the flying speed.
I've been looking at making a sylph character and wondering the same thing. The Wings of Air feat grants them a fly speed equal to their base speed, and I've been trying to figure out if enhancing your base speed would also affect the flying speed.Does an enhancement bonus increase your base speed? Because I always read it as not increasing base speed but adding on to it, therefore not giving a bonus to jump checks as it's called out to use base speed. If I'm wrong then my monk will start being a lot jumpier.Grab some Boots of Striding and Springing for more fun.
You get a speed enhancement of +10', which gives you +4 racial bonus for jumping.
You also get a +5 competence bonus for jumping.
So, for the low, low, , price of 5,500 gp, you can bump your jump skill by +9.Much better than an Improved Ring of Jumping at 10,000 gp for just +10 on the skill.
On the other hand, as a 10th level ninja, you are using invisible blade to attack?
/cevah
Considering that Fly speed and ground speed are two distinct speeds, I would not think that the base ground speed would reflect the fly speed.
I think there might be spells or items that might affect fly speed, perhaps a shoulder item?
I've been looking at making a sylph character and wondering the same thing. The Wings of Air feat grants them a fly speed equal to their base speed, and I've been trying to figure out if enhancing your base speed would also affect the flying speed.Does an enhancement bonus increase your base speed? Because I always read it as not increasing base speed but adding on to it, therefore not giving a bonus to jump checks as it's called out to use base speed. If I'm wrong then my monk will start being a lot jumpier.Grab some Boots of Striding and Springing for more fun.
You get a speed enhancement of +10', which gives you +4 racial bonus for jumping.
You also get a +5 competence bonus for jumping.
So, for the low, low, , price of 5,500 gp, you can bump your jump skill by +9.Much better than an Improved Ring of Jumping at 10,000 gp for just +10 on the skill.
On the other hand, as a 10th level ninja, you are using invisible blade to attack?
/cevah
Considering that Fly speed and ground speed are two distinct speeds, I would not think that the base ground speed would reflect the fly speed.
I think there might be spells or items that might affect fly speed, perhaps a shoulder item?
You gain a fly speed equal to your base speed. Any bonus to your base speed would therefore give the same bonus to the fly speed.
Woah, This is actually pretty cool considering Im thinking of going flurry of blows with shruikens, so I could jump X amount of feet to touch the ceiling, and then throw shruikens and mooks.Being a touch pedantic (always a risk for people drawn to look at Rules forums), I read this and processed as written, rather than using the "at" that was likely intended.
And I have to say, that as a character concept while playing a Grippli monk has very little appeal to me, playing a Gripplie monk who throw shurikens and mooks is indeed a crazy awesome build.
Fernn, please know that I find your ideas intriguing and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
@Sundakan:
Bigger picture of same
/cevah
That is the exact same image URL. It shrunk.
Same image in a smaller form. Different URL.
/cevah