If spells are involved in the prerequisites for making the item, the creator must have prepared the spells to be cast (or must know the spells, in the case of a sorcerer or bard) but need not provide any material components or focuses the spells require. The act of working on the item triggers the prepared spells, making them unavailable for casting during each day of the item's creation. (That is, those spell slots are expended from the caster's currently prepared spells, just as if they had been cast.)
Let's say I want to craft a Headband of Intelligence:
DC is: 5+8(CL)+5(because I don't know Fox's Cunning)= 18
I was looking at this and it doesn't make sense. How am I supposed to craft the item while consuming the spell if I don't know the spell?
Does this mean I still use a spell slot of 2nd level?
You obviously don't expend the spell since you don't know it. Lucky you. You do, as you noted, have a harder DC for this. But, in exchange for that harder DC, you don't use any spells or slots to create the item.
You obviously don't expend the spell since you don't know it. Lucky you. You do, as you noted, have a harder DC for this. But, in exchange for that harder DC, you don't use any spells or slots to create the item.
So even if I have the spell, can I chose to add +5 DC so I won't be using a spell slot?
I'm asking because it seems that knowing the spell could be a disadvantage (using spell slot) when it's so easy to reach the desired DC if taking 10 and some cheap items.
Everyday you work on the item you must supply the required spell. You can also raise the spellcraft DC to create wondrous items by +5 per prerequisite not met (but you must always have Craft Wondrous Item feat). It is unclear if a spell slot still needs to be expended in this case. I think the answer is no, the spell slot is not expended. Though that seems too easy, but if you're ignoring the prerequisite spell I don't know why you'd expend the slot.
Please note Scrolls and Wands always require the spell to be cast and that prerequisites cannot be ignored.
You obviously don't expend the spell since you don't know it. Lucky you. You do, as you noted, have a harder DC for this. But, in exchange for that harder DC, you don't use any spells or slots to create the item.So even if I have the spell, can I chose to add +5 DC so I won't be using a spell slot?
I'm asking because it seems that knowing the spell could be a disadvantage (using spell slot) when it's so easy to reach the desired DC if taking 10 and some cheap items.
I wouldn't require it. As written, I read that the requirement of having the spell and using the slot is a requirement to avoid the +5 DC penalty. Since an option exists to accept the penalty for people who have no choice, it seems like avoiding or accepting it should be a CHOICE for anyone who knows the spell. They should never be disadvantaged for being better (or more knowledgeable) at something.
To rephrase, I think the sentence reads "If you don't cast the spell daily, you must take a +5 penalty to the DC, but if you have the spell and cast it daily you can avoid this penalty". IMO, that says the same thing but turns the sentence around to make it clear that there is a choice for those who have the spell.
I admit, it's a liberal interpretation.
Everyday you work on the item you must supply the required spell. You can also raise the spellcraft DC to create wondrous items by +5 per prerequisite not met (but you must always have Craft Wondrous Item feat). It is unclear if a spell slot still needs to be expended in this case. I think the answer is no, the spell slot is not expended. Though that seems too easy, but if you're ignoring the prerequisite spell I don't know why you'd expend the slot.
Please note Scrolls and Wands always require the spell to be cast and that prerequisites cannot be ignored.
In addition, you cannot create potions, spell-trigger, or spell-completion magic items without meeting its prerequisites.
I know this apply to Scrolls, Wands, Potions and Staves.
But it's not clear for Wondrous Items, right? Rules-wise you can bypass with +5 DC but you get confusing information on the other part of Crafting Magic Items.
Basically almost all Wondrous Item have spell prerequisites.
@DM_Blake Yes, that was I was afraid of. It is after all a RAI, because RAW you can't be certain of it.
I just hope someday they'll make an Ultimate Crafting book or something.
Using the spell slot is typically trivial anyways, it is being done during "downtime" the vast majority of the time.
You don't need the spell slot during downtime so it isn't a "hardship" to have to cast it.
Using the spell slot is typically trivial anyways, it is being done during "downtime" the vast majority of the time.
You don't need the spell slot during downtime so it isn't a "hardship" to have to cast it.
I'll be crafting during adventures, using Rope Trick and such, unless specific circumstances allow me to stay at home
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Completely irrelevant to the actual question, when I read the the thread topic, I read "CWI" and thought "Casting While Intoxicated? How does that impact things..."
Why I made the leap from "DWI" to "CWI" like that probably says unhealthy things about my intuition.
Completely irrelevant to the actual question, when I read the the thread topic, I read "CWI" and thought "Casting While Intoxicated? How does that impact things..."
Why I made the leap from "DWI" to "CWI" like that probably says unhealthy things about my intuition.
Those things happen. I use the forums way too much and I usually spay out acronyms and everyone looks at me funny.
But yours... that's was a huge leap xD
I'll be crafting during adventures, using Rope Trick and such, unless specific circumstances allow me to stay at homeUsing the spell slot is typically trivial anyways, it is being done during "downtime" the vast majority of the time.
You don't need the spell slot during downtime so it isn't a "hardship" to have to cast it.
Crafting while adventuring isn't a "right" it is an option, and rarely a good one unless it is an item that can be done over night/one sitting. If you are crafting while adventuring you risk the very real possibility of failing to craft the item if it is an expensive one requiring multiple days.
You are running into one of the many reasons it is a risk.
Skylancer4, why would crafting while adventuring risk failure if it requires multiple days?
Skylancer4, why would crafting while adventuring risk failure if it requires multiple days?
You make less progress than normal if you craft while adventuring. That means more checks are required to finish the item. Failing any check by 4 or less ruins the item and the time and money spent are wasted. Failing any check by 5 or more results in a cursed item.
So the more checks there are, the more likely you fail to make the item. Unless your modifier is high enough you can't possibly fail.
Skylancer4, why would crafting while adventuring risk failure if it requires multiple days?
. Failing this check means that the item does not function and the materials and time are wasted. Failing this check by 5 or more results in a cursed item.
Jeraa, there is only ONE check. Not a check each day. It doesn't matter how many days are required to craft the item.
To create magic items, spellcasters use special feats which allow them to invest time and money in an item’s creation. At the end of this process, the spellcaster must make a skill check (usually Spellcraft, but sometimes another skill) to finish the item.
Skylancer4, so don't roll. Take 10, and you succeed.
Crafting while adventuring has no additional risk to failure, it is the exact same as crafting while not adventuring. It just takes more time.
Jeraa, there is only ONE check. Not a check each day. It doesn't matter how many days are required to craft the item.
Right, my bad. Absolutely stupid rule (like most of PAthfinders rules), but my bad.
Jeraa, it is easy to confuse especially when the non-magical crafting rules require a check each day.
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Everyday you work on the item you must supply the required spell. You can also raise the spellcraft DC to create wondrous items by +5 per prerequisite not met (but you must always have Craft Wondrous Item feat). It is unclear if a spell slot still needs to be expended in this case. I think the answer is no, the spell slot is not expended. Though that seems too easy, but if you're ignoring the prerequisite spell I don't know why you'd expend the slot.
Please note Scrolls and Wands always require the spell to be cast and that prerequisites cannot be ignored.
In addition, you cannot create potions, spell-trigger, or spell-completion magic items without meeting its prerequisites.
I know this apply to Scrolls, Wands, Potions and Staves.
But it's not clear for Wondrous Items, right? Rules-wise you can bypass with +5 DC but you get confusing information on the other part of Crafting Magic Items.
Basically almost all Wondrous Item have spell prerequisites.@DM_Blake Yes, that was I was afraid of. It is after all a RAI, because RAW you can't be certain of it.
I just hope someday they'll make an Ultimate Crafting book or something.
If you are making a wondrous item that is a spell-trigger or spell-completion item you need to know the spell and spend the slot.
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Jeraa, it is easy to confuse especially when the non-magical crafting rules require a check each day.
Each week: "Make an appropriate Craft check representing one week's worth of work." You make them each day only if the cost is low enough that you can make the item in less than a week, and even the it isn't mandatory.
Diego, I was referencing this rule:
Progress by the Day: You can make checks by the day instead of by the week. In this case your progress (check result × DC) should be divided by the number of days in a week.
I did not state that it was mandatory, I was stating that that was the rule that he was probably confusing it with. Are we really so nitpicky that you had to bring up that it was an optional rule when the context was 'this is probably what you were confusing it with'?
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Diego, I was referencing this rule:
Progress by the Day: You can make checks by the day instead of by the week. In this case your progress (check result × DC) should be divided by the number of days in a week.I did not state that it was mandatory, I was stating that that was the rule that he was probably confusing it with. Are we really so nitpicky that you had to bring up that it was an optional rule when the context was 'this is probably what you were confusing it with'?
Yes. Your post hadn't decreased the confusion, it has increased it as it cited an extra option as it was the norm.
An option that has nothing to do with crafting magic items.
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Diego, again, CONTEXT. I explained what he was probably confusing it with.
tchrman35, fine, I take 10, you roll "take 10" and it is still a 10. :P
If I am going to roll (for some bizarre reason) I will make sure I have the spell "Identify" handy to make sure that the item isn't cursed.
Heh, if I were the GM, I'd roll the craft check in secret, do that you would not know it read a cursed item!
You're basically being penalized for selecting a feat.
Yes, the feat is very powerful, but if you put make a DC Roll hidden, I have to build my character assuming I'm always going to get a 1, so basically I won't be crafting that many items.This is not even considering some item that have stupid Caster Levels, like Pearl of Power, which has a CL of 17, which means to craft it you need a 23 DC (5 + 17 CL).
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Or take a10, as Gauss suggested. Look, the fact is that lots of skill checks are made behind the screen. Sense motive can often be. Disguise checks are specifically called out as being made in secret.
What good is the curse vs destroy outright distinction if you'll just destroy the cursed item anyway? That's the point of the danger. As he said, cast identify at it to learn whether you've cursed it or succeeded.
This is not even considering some item that have stupid Caster Levels, like Pearl of Power, which has a CL of 17, which means to craft it you need a 23 DC (5 + 17 CL).
Or just use this FAQ.
Even without the fact, to craft a CL 17 Pearl of Power, you need to roll a fairly easy spellcraft check. DC 23 is not that hard for even a 3rd level character (assuming an INT caster; others have a much harder time). Given even a low INT (only 18: 16 + racial mod) and max ranks in Spellcraft, the wizard only needs to roll a 13. That's a 40% chance of success. I
f he really wants to churn out items that hard by level 3, well, he might want another two points of INT and maybe a skill focus for Spell Craft. Heck, just grab that Skill Focus and now you only need to roll a 10. That's a 55% chance of success if you MUST roll, but you should just Take-10 at that point.
If we'er stuck with a GM that insists on rolling, then try to start with a 20 INT (18+racial mod) and make your first item a Headband of Intellect +2, and grab that Skill Focus. +15 on the roll means only needing an 8 or higher, that's a 65% chance of success. Spend your materials 3 times and get two functional pearls and one bad one - that's even profitable.
Side note, if you have the kind of GM who makes you roll instead of Take-10, then my bet is he's secretly rubbing his hands with glee at the torment he's causing his player. If he's THAT kind of GM, and rolling this one behind the screen, I'd be surprised if you get more than 1 pearl out of every three tries...
(He won't be able to resist the temptation to "fudge" those rolls into failures, because he's THAT kind of GM.)
Let's hope he's not...
I saw the title of the thread "Does CWI consume a spell slot?"...I had just to check this out...I thought CWI was Casting While Intoxicated
Confirmed that I can take 10. I was able to find the FAQ and he said "rules are rules".
Took me a while to find it though.
@DM_Blake nice FAQ. If I want I can lower the CL.