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Somehow I can't find the thread you mentioned here. Link?
EDIT: Found it. Counter spells are meant to be very situational, I think. They work perfectly fine if you can identify the spell, but often times having the spell the monster is going to cast generally means it's best to use it on the monster before it can even cast. I don't think it needs revision, to be honest.
Here's one of the few situations it can be amazingly useful. If you're a specialist sorcerer than generally pools their talents on one thing, such as enchantment, and a spellcaster against you is immune what do you do? Generally, you buff the party. Consider, however, what might happen if someone identifies them as a specific monster that is likely to cast enchantments. It then might be worth it to keep your party fighter safe by counterspelling charm person.
Personally, I just give the Improved Counterspell feat for free and call it a day. It's still not a very good subsystem, but without the feat tax at least any spellcaster can just decide to use if the rare situation actually comes up.
It's worth noting that there are two ways to counterspell as an immediate action, and those do make counterspell very useful. They actually work fairly well, but they are pretty exclusive. The options are the Counterspell focused Wizard school, and the Counterspell Arcanist exploit (which is also available to Wizards with the Exploiter archetype).
The simplest "system" for counter spell would be.
Spell craft check to identity level of spell being cast, and caster sacrifices a spell of the same level to counter the magical energy....
I would clarify the above by saying "sacrifices a spell of the same level or higher to try to counter the magical energy as an immediate action." That way it specifies the action type (which would use up their swift action next turn, so it has consequences but they aren't huge) and it doesn't make counterspelling perfectly effective. Basically, I would say it is a caster level check with a bonus given for every spell level sacrifices above the level of the spell being countered.
Our group has rarely ever attempted to counterspell anything (DM or players), so the current subsystem is wasted on us. I like the idea of casters battling back and forth with magic, warding off each others' spells, so a modified system would be useful.
The problem is you can't simply let people expend energy to counter. Because anything to do works both ways and "simplifying" the system only allows you to frustrate a player to no end.
I have never had a problem with it being a conscious choice that a caster takes themselves out of initiative basically to sit there and prep to counter. Also, Dispel Magic and Greater dispel are there for a reason and should not be ignored as spells.
It is the classic one wizard staring down the other and just swatting things aside. They aren't throwing their own in between. It is stare and swat and that goes back and forth. A lot of staring and gambling.
The better question is:
Why counterspell when readying a Magic Missile, Fireball or Disintegrate and making concentration DCs explode so much more viable?
Basically unless you have a Swift/Immediate counter, you're wasting your turn mechanically for something that may or may not happen. Most casters are going to be higher level than you (and have higher CLs and higher level spells), so Countering even with Dispel is shaky at best.
Rework the subsystem I say.
Also I totally am one of those people who gives Improved Counterspell for free, and makes Swift Counterspell a feat instead (to replace it for pre-reqs and prestige classes).
Prerequisites: House Rules as appropriate.You may make a Counterspell as an immediate action, using any spell of the same school (of at least equal level) allowing it to act as a Dispel Magic instead. You must make all appropriate Caster Level checks.
Using a Dispel Magic or Greater Dispel Magic this way to counter an Abjuration spell gives you a +2 Circumstance bonus on the Caster Level check.
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The simplest fix is also one which helps with caster/martial disparity.
Make most spells take a full round action to cast. This allows you to see what spell they are attempting to cast and only then make the decision whether to try countering it. (And knowing if you have a 100% chance by having the same spell prepared.)
This is probably more appropriate for homebrew but I always loved the way casters could 'sever weaves' in the Wheel of Time series.
Opposed spellcraft check (or concentration check) as an immediate action to get the spell off in time and then use a spell slot of the same school of that level to nullify the spell (or any school one level higher) - automatically successful.
Get rid of everything else as superfluous.
The simplest fix is also one which helps with caster/martial disparity.
Make most spells take one round to cast. This allows you to see what spell they are attempting to cast and only then make the decision whether to try countering it. (And knowing if you have a 100% chance by having the same spell prepared.)
FTFY.
It annoys me to no end when people propose solutions that make no sense because they apparently don't understand basic elements of the game.
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The simplest fix is also one which helps with caster/martial disparity.
Make most spells take one round to cast. This allows you to see what spell they are attempting to cast and only then make the decision whether to try countering it. (And knowing if you have a 100% chance by having the same spell prepared.)
FTFY.
It annoys me to no end when people propose solutions that make no sense because they apparently don't understand basic elements of the game.
You're right - I started to write something else (overly complex) - planned to switch to 'a full round' and the text ended up as a hybrid which didn't mean what I meant it to mean at all. >.<
You're right - I started to write something else (overly complex) - planned to switch to 'a full round' and the text ended up as a hybrid which didn't mean what I meant it to mean at all. >.<The simplest fix is also one which helps with caster/martial disparity.
Make most spells take one round to cast. This allows you to see what spell they are attempting to cast and only then make the decision whether to try countering it. (And knowing if you have a 100% chance by having the same spell prepared.)
FTFY.
It annoys me to no end when people propose solutions that make no sense because they apparently don't understand basic elements of the game.
I've done that a few times.
I've been toying with a few ideas for this system.
Generally keep it the way it is at least for the sake of consistency and add the following
1. Counter Spelling as an immediate action for all
2. Create a new spell Called "Counter Spell" designed to disrupt enemy casting. One could have varying levels of power like lesser, standard, and greater. Maybe if you successfully counter the enemy's spell you drop a penalty on future casting until they overcome it with a save.
3. Once you successfully identify a spell instead of countering with dispel, or a higher slot, or using the "counter spell" spell, you could instead be allowed to cast a spell of your own that only allows for Target: Personal. Gives the idea of a caster immediately using defensive magic for protection in those epic spell duels
Again a work in progress, but if anyone could improve upon it I'd love to check out what they come up with.
I've been toying with a few ideas for this system.
Generally keep it the way it is at least for the sake of consistency and add the following
1. Counter Spelling as an immediate action for all
2. Create a new spell Called "Counter Spell" designed to disrupt enemy casting. One could have varying levels of power like lesser, standard, and greater. Maybe if you successfully counter the enemy's spell you drop a penalty on future casting until they overcome it with a save.
3. Once you successfully identify a spell instead of countering with dispel, or a higher slot, or using the "counter spell" spell, you could instead be allowed to cast a spell of your own that only allows for Target: Personal. Gives the idea of a caster immediately using defensive magic for protection in those epic spell duelsAgain a work in progress, but if anyone could improve upon it I'd love to check out what they come up with.
5E has a Counterspell spell.
3rd Level
Uses a reaction (immediate action)
Counters a spell thats of the same level or lower. If you try to counter a spell of higher level than your Counterspell you need to roll an Ability check (caster level check equivalent) versus DC10+Spell Level, success means its countered.
When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 4th level or higher, the interrupted spell has no effect if its level is less than or equal to the level of the spell slot you used.
Works very well, though you'd have to fiddle a little with the DCs (no bonded accuracy) and with how its prepared (as in 5e, spells only get stronger as you prepare them in higher slots generally).