Master of the Fallen Fortress - first time GMing, misc. questions


Advice

Contributor

I'm going to be running Master of the Fallen Fortress for a mixed group of vets and newbies. While I've played a good bit of Pathfinder, I've never run a game, and I'm running into some stuff I'm not sure about.

First, there's an encounter with two Burning Skeletons that's listed as CR 1/2. I looked them up, and the PRD lists Skeletons as CR 1/3, and shows the "Burning" template as giving them +1 CR. So shouldn't an encounter with two Burning Skeletons be CR 2 and 2/3?
I'm also slightly worried about their fire damage and on-death explosion really messing up a party of 1st level pregens.

Second, there's some Troglodytes in here, and I see they're each armed with a club, two claw attacks, and one bite attack. Never had a character with natural attacks, so I'm not 100% sure on the rules - if they full attacked, they could club at their full BAB, then use one claw (since the other's holding a club) and their bite at -5 each?
It also looks like from the bestiary entry that if they didn't use the club, they'd resolve all of their natural attacks at their full bonuses. Why wouldn't just the bite get the full bonus, while the claws resolve at -5 each?

Thanks for any help, this is more complicated than I thought. You feel like you know your stuff until you have to account for all the things that go on behind the screen!


Andrew Mullen wrote:
First, there's an encounter with two Burning Skeletons that's listed as CR 1/2. I looked them up, and the PRD lists Skeletons as CR 1/3, and shows the "Burning" template as giving them +1 CR. So shouldn't an encounter with two Burning Skeletons be CR 2 and 2/3?

+1 CR templates means the CR increases by one step. One step up for CR 1/3 is CR 1/2. This is only an issue for CR's that are lower than 1.

Quote:
I'm also slightly worried about their fire damage and on-death explosion really messing up a party of 1st level pregens

That's definitely the kind of eye you need to have for this kind of thing, although without being a complete and total nanny level 1 gameplay will always be dangerous. I'd say roll with it.

Quote:

Second, there's some Troglodytes in here, and I see they're each armed with a club, two claw attacks, and one bite attack. Never had a character with natural attacks, so I'm not 100% sure on the rules - if they full attacked, they could club at their full BAB, then use one claw (since the other's holding a club) and their bite at -5 each?

It also looks like from the bestiary entry that if they didn't use the club, they'd resolve all of their natural attacks at their full bonuses. Why wouldn't just the bite get the full bonus, while the claws resolve at -5 each?

Primary natural attacks are made at the monster's full attack bonus, while secondary natural attacks are made at the monster's attack bonus -5. Both claws and bites are primary natural attacks, so under normal circumstances a troglodyte making a full attack would make all three attacks at its maximum bonus. When using a manufactured weapon in addition to natural weapons, all natural weapons are treated as secondary, so the claws and bites are made at -5 attack. So these would be legal attack sequences for the Troglodyte:

* 1 bite and 2 claws at full attack bonus
* club attack at full attack bonus, 1 bite and 1 claw at -5
* two-handed club attack at full attack bonus (1.5x strength bonus), 1 bite at -5

Adding the club to their attack sequence is just an underhanded way of the scenario designer of nerfing the monster, since it actually ends up dealing less damage due to the accuracy penalty on its natural attacks. There's really no reason for Troglodytes to use manufactured weapons with that very favorable natural weapon loadout.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

A +1 CR increases the CR by one step. So for a 1/3 CR skeleton, the Burning template increases the CR to 1/2. The explosion can be a bit nasty at level 1, but after it happens the first time, they'll learn pretty quickly to stand back before killing the second.

Your reading of the Troglodytes is correct. It's full BAB club plus one claw and a bite at -5, or drop the club and attack with 3 natural attacks at full BAB. Bites and claws are both Primary natural attacks, so get the full strength bonus applied. In the rules for Natural Attacks, there's a table that states whether each attack is primary or secondary.

EDIT: Ninja'd!

Sovereign Court

For the record, those burning skeletons really are among the scariest things in that adventure. You might want to telegraph to your players that they should be careful with them.

Contributor

Thanks folks, glad I'm not totally off base! Not sure if they'll even get to the skeleton room thanks to the DCs and things, but if they do I'll try to make it clear that they're a threat.

Grand Lodge

Make sure you run with the Knowledge checks, especially if they have someone with Knowledge (religion) trained. In that case, if they can make a halfway decent roll, you can give them the heads-up on the explody bit without having to go outside the rules.

Also remember that most of the trogs in there have the Young simple template applied, which lowers their Strength, lowers the DC of their stench, and lowers their hit points, IIRC.

And the stench is just sickened, not nauseated.

Edit: The encounter that is the real killer, especially for inexperienced players, is that bat swarm. Swarms are just ugly.

Contributor

Just wrapped up! Folks said they had a good time and liked the narration, so I reckon that means it went well.

One last rules question: I let a ranger use wild empathy on a shock lizard, which is a magic beast. He made it friendly and fed it some beef jerky. Is that technically allowed?
Either way I probably would have gone with it since it was a cool character thing, and it's just a one shot. They ended up using more jerky to get the lizard to fight a room full of troglodytes for them, the high point of the session!

Thanks again for the advice, everyone!


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

From the CRB:

Wild Empathy wrote:
A druid can also use this ability to influence a magical beast with an Intelligence score of 1 or 2, but she takes a –4 penalty on the check.

Shocker Lizards have an Int of 2, so yeah, it's allowed. I'd have made the same call as you, rather than look that up in game. Always better to go with what's fun than what's technically allowed.


Definitely a good move, especially since you had newbies - that's the sort of thing that teaches them to be creative in finding roleplay solutions, not just looking at numbers on their character sheets. ^^ Nice job!

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