coming soon in my campaign is likely a fight in a cave, so I definitely think its time to understand exactly how things like low light vision and all that work with darkness, I read the section in chapter 7 of the core rule book, but it didn't exactly clear everything up for me, basically, lets say we are in pitch darkness, and they are fighting an enemy, what are the modifiers that get granted in a fight like this, who all do they get granted to? also noticed something about a 50% chance to miss, and I am unsure of how to determine a hit or miss in such a situation, is it a percentile roll if they hit the AC? if so do they make the roll or do I? just anything to give me nice simple details for combat in a dark environment would be good, technically moving too
So, let's try to take this down bit by bit.
The fight is going on in darkness (lower than low-light, but not as dark as supernatural darkness). This means that anybody with darkvision can see (typically 60 ft. but sometimes more or less), while anybody without darkvision cannot see. Low-light vision does not help with darkness.
If somebody without darkvision wants to attack an enemy, first they must make a perception check to notice what square the enemy is in. If the enemy is using stealth, this could be quite difficult. If the enemy is in front of them and attacking them, it will most likely be very easy.
Once this person has located what square their target is in, they can make an attack. At this point you roll for concealment, which is a 50% chance to hit or miss. You roll percentile die to see if they hit or miss.
If they miss, they miss. End of their attack.
If the percentile die says they hit, then they roll an attack as normal, adding their normal modifiers to hit the target's AC.
Also, as far as moving goes, anybody without darkvision will have to move at 1/2 speed (which represents moving slowly so you don't walk into a wall).
I hope this helps. Do you have any more questions?
CampinCarl9127 wrote: So, let's try to take this down bit by bit.
The fight is going on in darkness (lower than low-light, but not as dark as supernatural darkness). This means that anybody with darkvision can see (typically 60 ft. but sometimes more or less), while anybody without darkvision cannot see. Low-light vision does not help with darkness.
If somebody without darkvision wants to attack an enemy, first they must make a perception check to notice what square the enemy is in. If the enemy is using stealth, this could be quite difficult. If the enemy is in front of them and attacking them, it will most likely be very easy.
Once this person has located what square their target is in, they can make an attack. At this point you roll for concealment, which is a 50% chance to hit or miss. You roll percentile die to see if they hit or miss.
If they miss, they miss. End of their attack.
If the percentile die says they hit, then they roll an attack as normal, adding their normal modifiers to hit the target's AC.
Also, as far as moving goes, anybody without darkvision will have to move at 1/2 speed (which represents moving slowly so you don't walk into a wall).
I hope this helps. Do you have any more questions?
that seems to help, mostly covers everything, is there no modifiers that get applied to AC or attack rolls in such darkness?
Ah yes.
In areas of darkness, creatures without darkvision are effectively blinded. In addition to the obvious effects, a blinded creature has a 50% miss chance in combat (all opponents have total concealment), loses any Dexterity bonus to AC, takes a –2 penalty to AC (this is in addition to any penalties from the dexterity loss to AC), and takes a –4 penalty on Perception checks that rely on sight and most Strength- and Dexterity-based skill checks.
Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
The thing that becomes difficult is when the PCs are using various light sources, each of which has its own range of illumination, and this range is further adjusted by things like low-light vision. As the PCs carrying the light source move around the battlefield, their zone of illumination moves too, so just marking down the zones with a marker doesn't really help.
In my experience, as soon as the PCs declare they've got "x" light source, whether it be torches or light spells or whatever, most DMs will handwave the penalties for darkness and dim light. I know I rarely remember to take them into account. There are so many other things to keep track of...
Wheldrake wrote: The thing that becomes difficult is when the PCs are using various light sources, each of which has its own range of illumination, and this range is further adjusted by things like low-light vision. As the PCs carrying the light source move around the battlefield, their zone of illumination moves too, so just marking down the zones with a marker doesn't really help.
In my experience, as soon as the PCs declare they've got "x" light source, whether it be torches or light spells or whatever, most DMs will handwave the penalties for darkness and dim light. I know I rarely remember to take them into account. There are so many other things to keep track of...
I know what you mean, player life and gm life isn't easy, I decided to just throw out the whole weight system for my campaign, just as long as no one was clearly carrying too much, but with vision, status effects, all other stuff, like special combat options, attacks of opportunity, skill checks, it does get overwhelming
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