There is the Sanctified Rogue Archetype. And I have never assumed that Thieves had to be evil. After all, Robin Hood was supposed to be a robber; the prince of thieves.
There is the Sanctified Rogue Archetype. And I have never assumed that Thieves had to be evil. After all, Robin Hood was supposed to be a robber; the prince of thieves.
Robin Hood still definitely leans chaotic, which is the point the OP is trying to make; you don't have to build an iconic roguish hero when using the rogue chassis, it is just as acceptable for a number of concepts that don't fit the usual definition of a rogue.
Of course Rogues don't have to be a criminal. It's just that its abilities often make people think of thievery and skulking about.
Yeah, the Rogue doesn't have to be a sneak-thief any more than the Barbarian has to be a shirtless guy with an Austrian accent.
Highly Lawful regimes could certainly be expected to have Special Ops types, who would themselves be mainly Lawful, and in the less dystopian regimes, sometimes even Good.
If the Investigator hadn't stolen the thunder, Rogue would be the chassis you would usually want to build a detective on (although the example I saw of a Detective Bard worked surprisingly well).
Related to the first concept, but not necessarily associated with the Special Ops of a regime, Good Rogues (possibly Lawful) could be part of a party specializing in rescuing kidnap victims, slaves, and other prisoners from criminals and dystopian regimes.
An even better example of this might be with the Bard. I've known plenty of people who measure their Bards only in degrees of spooniness, but I feel the chassis is really good for anyone who's charismatic and intends to be a leader on the field. Oratory is a valid perform type for a reason; bard works just as well for a strict field marshal as a flighty lute player.
The problem is, the rogue chassis is build around the idea of sneak attack, stealing stuff, lieing/disguising ecc. ecc. If you don't do any of this then there is no actual point in playing a rogue, you should pick one other class for your concept.
And BTW, the original Robin Hood from the book is kinda an a*%~*!@, definetly more N than G.
A LG Rogue could be like a Special Operations Operative.
Fighting Evil SWAT-Style. Scout out the evil lair, and then overwhelm the villains with quick surprise attacks, preferably without giving them the chance to sound the alarm. So that their Boss, Bity Mc Eatsalot has no reason to devour The Princess prematurely.
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The problem is, the rogue chassis is build around the idea of sneak attack, stealing stuff, lieing/disguising ecc. ecc. If you don't do any of this then there is no actual point in playing a rogue, you should pick one other class for your concept.
And BTW, the original Robin Hood from the book is kinda an a*!#+&~, definetly more N than G.
The rogue chassis is capable of dealing precision damage, can disable magical traps, and is unnaturally good at avoiding damage from Fireballs. The Rogue doesn't get any special benefit towards lying or stealing unless they specifically choose to pick a Rogue talent for it.
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You forgot one of the most important parts of the Rogue class. It provides an absurdly large amount of skill points (note that this is actually a good thing), enabling one to easily be able to afford to use all of the skills he had described. While other classes CAN invest in those skills, they do so at great cost by comparison.The rogue chassis is capable of dealing precision damage, can disable magical traps, and is unnaturally good at avoiding damage from Fireballs. The Rogue doesn't get any special benefit towards lying or stealing unless they specifically choose to pick a Rogue talent for it.The problem is, the rogue chassis is build around the idea of sneak attack, stealing stuff, lieing/disguising ecc. ecc. If you don't do any of this then there is no actual point in playing a rogue, you should pick one other class for your concept.
And BTW, the original Robin Hood from the book is kinda an a*!#+&~, definetly more N than G.
This is false. The rogue only has two more skill points per level than an investigator, who has a reason to have a high intelligence, or a Bard, who has versatile performance boosting skill points.
Both classes have scaling boosts to a wide variety of skills that actually make them better at using skills than the rogue.
They will both have more effective skill ranks per level than the rogue, and they will both be better at using those skills than the rogue. Even with unchained skill unlocks.
Hell, even a Lore Warden Fighter with 2x versatile training has 8 ranks per level.
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Having run a LG Rogue brother to a Paladin, the greatest problem I had was a gm who was stuck in the stereotype.
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Of course Rogues don't have to be a criminal. It's just that its abilities often make people think of thievery and skulking about.Yeah, the Rogue doesn't have to be a sneak-thief any more than the Barbarian has to be a shirtless guy with an Austrian accent.Austrian? For whatever reason, my group's are all Irish. Unless they're a dwarf, in which they're Scottish.
We need more Austrian adamantine golems, though.
The Austrian comment was based on Arnold's Conan the Barbarian.
Of course Rogues don't have to be a criminal. It's just that its abilities often make people think of thievery and skulking about.Yeah, the Rogue doesn't have to be a sneak-thief any more than the Barbarian has to be a shirtless guy with an Austrian accent.
Misread as "Australian", which is a fantastic concept for a Barbarian…
There's actually a rogue talent (sacred sneak attack) that requires a good alignment. The common perception of rogues is that they're thieves and liars, but they don't have to be. Or they could be putting their skills to use in the service of a good cause (in Golarion, a spy working against Thrune in Cheliax, for example).
Most likely a mistake on the mods part.
It got moved because the article is published on a third-party publisher's site. If you have any questions or concerns about a moderator's decision, please email community@paizo.com.
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Please, I've been doing this thing for over a decade now. Cavescouters do just that - scout the deeps for their better-armored brethren. We're not as skilled at arms as the dedicated warriors, but that's not our role. If you're wanting details on the movements of duergar, or the best way to breach a derro fortification, that's when you send us in. Or, if you're just wanting to know what's down that tunnel there for the next hundred miles, you send us in.
Don't know what's so hard to understand about that.
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I think the biggest disconnect is that originally the Class was called: "Thief"
Many, many years ago the entire concept changed into something more versatile and it was renamed "Rogue".
A LOT of older players never grasped that change properly and indoctrinated generation after generation of new players into the, very wrong, concept that Rogues were all some kind of thief archetype.
I've always found it best to think of them as scouts, spies, experts, etc... Sneak Attack is perfect for anyone who is trying to infiltrate a location, regardless of motive, and their other abilities can really help build a nice Dex based combatant, so long as you are not trying to build some optimized min-max nightmare. They are excellent flavor and it's very rare for us not to have one in every party.