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Seriously. Because they *say* they aren't?
They follow strict adherence to law. They don't worship Devils, they use them as a guide to order and peace. The Order of the Godclaw even has a high ranking Paladin.
Some Orders are more evil than others, but they put emphasis on LAWFUL, the other side can swing.
Because they *say* they aren't?
You going to question the guy in big spikey armor and a bonus to intimidate?
More seriously, the priority is order. They don't really care if your a good guy or a bad guy doing it so much as disciplined and get the results they need, if I remember right.
Many hellknights are Lawful Evil. Some aren't.
If you're looking for specific examples of how it's possible for a hellknight not to be LE, here are some:
The Order of the Chain, among other things, will investigate any merchants, ship captain, etc who exploits or risk the lives of their slaves, prisoners, or employees. That sounds more like LN or LG than LE (although combined with their other focuses, they're closest to LN).
The Order of the Gate seeks to prevent crime before it occurs, mainly through the use of divination (not Evil in nature), manipulation (possibly Evil in nature, but just as possible to justify as Neutral), or planar contact (possibly Evil in nature if the planar being contacted is Evil, but just as possibly any other alignment).
The main goals of The Order of the Godclaw are to bring order to cities overthrown by anarchy, and to depose tyrants. Both of these goals are Good or Neutral in nature (certainly not Evil).
Those are just some examples.
I will certainly agree that for some of the various orders it could be difficult or impossible to justify an LG member, but others (such as the Godclaw) are a perfect fit for such a character, and there are few/none where an LN member would seem out of place.
YEs there's two importnat things to udnerstand about the hellknights.
First is that they do not worship devils nor revere them. They view them as a model of order adn military precision to emulate but not become. The initiation of a hellknight requires that a proospective candidate destroy a devil in one on one combat as witnessed by a hellknight.
Second, is that the hellknights are a diverse and powerful organization that appeals to many who want to bring order and justice to Cheliax and places where it influences. It's certainly bent slightly more towards LE since Thrune took power but that does not mean it does not have good members nor mostly compose of LN members.
History is full of decent, patriotic people serving less than perfect regimes.
Also chaotic people serving lawful purposes and less moral serving good purposes. An individual isn't always the best measure of an organization nor vice versa.
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They're very good at self-delusion & denial.
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Here is why I think the Hellknights are LN on a good day and LE the other 364.
1) "...the unsubtle, skull breaking Hellknights." (Inner Sea World Guide, p 55)
2) "...uninterested in social goodliness..." (ISWG, p266)
3) ...emulate the most organized and effective armies in all the planes: the legions of Hell." (ISWG, p 266)
4) "They train with summoned devils..." (ISWG, p266)
5) "...obey draconian regimens of military conduct..." (ISWG, p266)
6) "..the backs of others are stepping stones to power..." (ISWG, Order of the Chain, p266)
7) "...returning [to] bondage, reselling as slaves..." (ISWG, Order of the Chain, p266)
8) "...deals and bargains with fiends..." ((ISWG, Order of the Gate, p266)
9) "...infernal servants wreak their will..." (ISWG, Order of the Gate, p266)
10) "...distilling select tenets into a dogma far from one god's faith..." (ISWG, Order of the God Claw, p266)
11) "...it is unclear from which of these gods it draws its power..." (ISWG, Order of the God Claw, p266)
12) "...puts the rack to use to prove the danger of misguided invention." (ISWG, Order of the Rack, p267)
13) "...and brutal reminders..." (ISWG, Order of the Scourge, p267)
14) "...network of informants, pays significant bounties for substantiated accusations, and publicly metes out grim punishments..." (ISWG, Order of the Scourge, p267)
15) "Convincing them to leave..." (ISWG, p267)
16) "They are not concerned with methods. They are concerned with results." (ISWG, p266)
17) "...people...will be treated like beasts..." (ISWG, p266)
I think Pennywit nailed it: even if members come for a sense of order, they leave committing atrocities in the name of that order. Like stupid, Evil is as Evil does. Wearing a name tag that says, "Lawful Neutral" does not make it true. The Hellknights were *made* to be subverted. As much as I hate to correlate them to real world badguys, the Hellknights are the German Military between '36 and '45. Many joined out of a sense of duty and many joined because they are thugs looking for legitimacy. At the end of the day, the tacit approval of the "Wehrmacht",the less odious orders, leads to the empowerment of the "Waffen SS" of the obviously evil orders.
Let me just say, if they had modern style their uniforms would be sharp, crisp lines and a definite Hugo Boss flair. The only Order that actually seems helpful, without a price, is the Order of the Nail. In three pages the Hellknights at their most flattering are devil cavorting, faith subverting, self righteous vicious and over zealous. Tell me again they are not evil?
If torturing a prisoner is fair game (see #16 above) how can Hellknights maintain *any* Paladins? How can a *Good* and *Lawful* adherent stomach the absolute lack of mercy in the law? "It's ok that the mayor has co-opted all of the local farmlands and evicted the workers. It's in the law books."
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Castles of Golarion confirmed where the Order of the Nail stands in the LG-LE spectrum, but there are some other orders that are more gray than black, as mentioned upthread.
If one wants to draw comparisons with Nazis, it's the Order of the Nail you may want to look at. They went full Sataninazi in that one, engaging in both outright genocide and sacrificing souls to Hell.
My answer is that most hell knights ARE lawful evil, and while you don't have to be evil to be part of the organization, most orders in the organization will certainly push you that way.
The Order of the Nail (which is actually dedicated to fighting external threats to civilization, like bandits and monsters, though based on their tenets I assume they also pursue genocide against the Kellids and the Shoanti) and the Order of the Godclaw (which was born from the Mendev Crusades and selectively embraces teachings from Torag and Iomedae) are the most likely to have good-aligned members, and to actually be more lawful neutral than evil.
So it's kind of screwball - you can be a lawful good member of the Hell Knights (the prestige classes certainly allow good people to take them), but a hell knight that's actually a good person is going to stick out like a sore thumb, and probably won't get along all that well with their superiors.
The Hell Knights actually COULD be a force for good, but often pursue agendas that are terrible.
The quesrion really is can you apply the stric letter of law without morality? The hellknights seem to tepresent a model applied by many govorments in dealing with oppposition to their authority.
More or less I think if the rules the hellknights are enforcing are not evil rules and ypu live within them then there is no isssue.
But if your in opposition to tgose rules they don't care what the reason is.
Well, you have to draw a distinction between Good/Evil and "good"/"evil." The first is a tangible metaphysical principle manifested in deed, magic, and faith in Golarion. The second is a matter of opinion. Simply because Archons are LG doesn't mean you have to agree with them. The Hellknights do what they think works. Because their actions are motivated primarily by prudence, they tend toward Neutral. Members of the group who actively court power for its own sake are going to fall LE with some regularity.
They're both opinion really.
Seriously. Because they *say* they aren't?
If by 'they' you mean the developers, then yes.
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Firebeardgnome,
you make a pretty good argument for the argument for Hellknights being LE.
Emulating the military precision of hell i would think, would be an excellent way to slide from LG to LN to LE finally. In my opinion one cannot emulate hell without staining his soul with evil.
After all those for whom "the ends justify the means" often end up committing the terrible acts of evil, in the name of a greater good.
I suppose, in a similar way that the Pathfinder Society has members of all alignments, The organization's overall alignment is Neutrality.
I guess, the hell knights have a variety of people of Lawful alignments in it, from LG to LN to LE. I would guess it is heavily weighted to LE, but perhaps there is just enough LN and a few LG members to keep the organization and its orders alignment one hair on the side of LN, instead of LE.
I guess, the hell knights have a variety of people of Lawful alignments in it, from LG to LN to LE. I would guess it is heavily weighted to LE, but perhaps there is just enough LN and a few LG members to keep the organization and its orders alignment one hair on the side of LN, instead of LE.
Just gotta keep out those nasty chaotic folks. Never know what they'll do. And neutrals... Can't even detect neutrals; Proof that you can't trust them!
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I guess, the hell knights have a variety of people of Lawful alignments in it, from LG to LN to LE. I would guess it is heavily weighted to LE, but perhaps there is just enough LN and a few LG members to keep the organization and its orders alignment one hair on the side of LN, instead of LE.Just gotta keep out those nasty chaotic folks. Never know what they'll do. And neutrals... Can't even detect neutrals; Proof that you can't trust them!
Yes my Lord Inquisitor Brannigan!
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I suppose, in a similar way that the Pathfinder Society has members of all alignments, The organization's overall alignment is Neutrality.
Funny thing is, despite its cries of neutrality, the Pathfinder Society is probably more evil than the Hellknights.
I don't see the Hellknights regularly employee highly trained murderhobos to rob tombs, invade sovereign lands, defy the laws of legitimate lawful governments, murder citizens in good standing with their community, spy on government officials, depose legitimate nobles, treat with goblins, do business with wanted criminals, harass a kindly old lady running an orphanage, and engage in a shadow war with another criminal organization that endangers hordes of innocent civilians? :-)
Seriously, if you really analyze some the missions the Decemveriate sends you on, you probably should wonder if they are as neutral as the present.
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Sowhereaminow, fair enough, however we know what the Pathfinder society is up to, particularly if we play in the Pathfinder Society Organized Play campaign.
We don't know what the Hell knights are up to. We don't know about the bad things the hell knights do.
The only example I have is the inprisonment of Sascha Antif-Arah.
Well that is the only example I can think of at the moment.
Seriously, if you really analyze some the missions the Decemveriate sends you on, you probably should wonder if they are as neutral as the present.
Shh! They might be watching...
Also, you forgot the extortion and theft from the living I think. Gosh forbid you play severing ties. Never see that one go without at least one act my mother wouldn't agree with.
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Seriously. Because they *say* they aren't?
It depends on the specific order, and the specific Hellknight within that order. Hellknights are basically a franchise, so while there are a lot of outer similarities the internal politics and goals of each order vary greatly.
For example:
The Order of the Coil in Sargava is an anti-native, anti-explorer, and probably anti-miscegenation and overwhelmingly racist (not a lot has been written about them, so I'm guessing). So I doubt you'll find many good (or even neutral) Hellknights in that very small order. It's not the sort of thing you join unless you already have some existing prejudices. Then again, I guess there's room for a non-evil Hellknight of the Coil since at least one of the native tribes (the Bandu) are described as being slavers and demon worshippers.
On the flip side, you have the Order of the Pike in Cheliax which is made up entirely of monster hunters, who guard the boarder of the Whisperwood and keep the terrible things that live there at bay. You could easily fit good Hellknights into the Order of the Pike.
Remember, "Hellknight" was a nickname given to the original knightly order by people who didn't like them but were impressed by how badass they were. At the time they were just a super-regimented knightly order with harsh internal training methods whose "graduation" involved fighting and killing a literal devil from hell in single combat (because, after that, is anything going to scare you?).
It doesn't mean that Hellknights are pro-hell devil worshipers, any more than calling a United States Marine a "Devil Dog" means that they are devil-worshiping canines. They're nicknames. Well deserved nicknames that have been adopted gleefully by the organizations in question, but they're still just nicknames.
Another thing to look at are the differences between the original Hellknight orders, and the "re-structured" and new Hellknight orders that came about after House Thrune took over Cheliax. Diabolism is definitely more popular now that House Thrune is in charge of the nation, and is supporting the local orders. But they don't control everything (yet).
Abby Temps, do you have any references for the kinder, gentler Hellknights? Specifically, where has it ever been stated that the name (Hellknights) was a nickname tacked on the orders? (Also, Teufelhuende has been proven to be a made-up nickname by propagandizing commanders :) (See, Belleau Woods) )
If we are going to compare the new and old Hellknights, that's fine, maybe once they were more about Law/Order, but today the fact that their methodologies are brutal and violent (Paizo's words, not my interpretation, see above) shows them as Evil. They are not about supporting just laws, they are about supporting LAWS. Even if the laws are grossly unfair. Even if the Laws force people into slavery and allow "Massa!" a free hand in discipline. I understand the HKs ignore morality, but that invariably will lead them south of Neutral... it may not be intentional (for all HKs) but it is true. Let enough evil happen and it will become you.
:)
FOr me it deos not matter if they are LN or LE as a organization, but I just find the idea of Hellknight paladin to be utterly unbelievable. This is the problem I have with this organization.
I cannot agree more. :) And that thought is what led me to the thinkin' I had done about what the HKs really are...
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We don't know what the Hell knights are up to. We don't know about the bad things the hell knights do.
The only example I have is the inprisonment of Sascha Antif-Arah.
** spoiler omitted **.
Castles of Golarion spills much more info on that particular order and Citadel Vraid itself. Ethnic "cleansing", prisoners(and failed Hellknights) being tortured to death or thrown to lemures for the same, and diabolic sacrifice.
It's probably the most detailed look at just how terrible certain Hellknight orders can be that we've gotten yet.
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Hellknights can be anywhere from LG to LE, for all the reason folks have noted. The reason it may seem like there are way more examples/descriptions of Hellknights which seem more LE is due primarily to bias inherent in the authors and adventures. One huge factor is that Hellknights *look* so cool and creepy that it's really tempting to use them as bad guys in adventures (and let's face it: most folks you meet in adventures are bad guys, because we tend not to spend a lot of time describing/illustrating people unless you're going to fight them, due to space concerns).
At the same time, I think there's a definite *in-world* bias against Hellknights by folks who don't really understand the nuance of their lawful nature and how they employ devils rather than worshiping them, etc. Especially when freelancers come to a thing through their own game experiences or preexisting biases about things like devil-binding, it's really easy to end up describing them in a negative light *because that's how people in the world would describe them,* as opposed to in a truly objective fashion. Similar problems happen with groups like the Rahadoumi, Hermeans, and any other morally complicated groups in our world--in trying to convey the in-world prejudices, it's easy to accidentally make them sound like the whole story.
So yeah--even if we've accidentally made the group sound primarily evil, I know that Wes (their creator) would say that the whole thing that makes the Hellknights cool is that they're *not* necessarily evil--just super hard-liner lawful cop-types... with maybe a bit more leaning toward the "Judge Dredd" mindset than we modern folks would be okay with. (After all, I didn't say there *weren't* lots of LE folks in there. :D)
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I can see the next PF novel:
Ser Desnok of Egorian is a young, rookie Hellknight with a sharp sword and a sharper temper.
Ser Arbshin is a highly respected, by-the-book Hellknight who is three days from retirement.
"In the Hellknight Justice System the people are represented by two separate, yet equally important groups. The Hellknights who investigate crime and the Vicarius who prosecute the offenders. These are their stories."
Doink - Doink!
Abby Temps, do you have any references for the kinder, gentler Hellknights? Specifically, where has it ever been stated that the name (Hellknights) was a nickname tacked on the orders? (Also, Teufelhuende has been proven to be a made-up nickname by propagandizing commanders :) (See, Belleau Woods) )
I wouldn't say kinder or gentler (even the LG Hellknights are pretty hardcore in their military discipline), but the articles about Hellknights in the Council of Thieves Adventure Path do go a long way into elaborating on the lawful aspects of Hellknight philosophy. Having an informed opinion about the Hellknights (as a whole entity rather than individual Orders) pretty much dictates those articles as required reading. I believe it's Council of Thieves 3 and 4.
I've had players who were under the impression that the Hellknights were pure evil until I directed them to those articles. Now my players understand why the Hellknights are mostly LN. Sure, some of the Orders are pretty bad and employ mostly @#%holes, but the majority of the Orders aren't like that.
It's also in one of those articles, where it discusses the history of the Hellknights, that it mentions where the name came from.
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Abby Temps, do you have any references for the kinder, gentler Hellknights? Specifically, where has it ever been stated that the name (Hellknights) was a nickname tacked on the orders? (Also, Teufelhuende has been proven to be a made-up nickname by propagandizing commanders :) (See, Belleau Woods) )
For the nickname, it's on page 65 of
The founder of the Hellknights, Daidian Ruel, was a pious veteran whose family was murdered by a cult of Sifkesh (demon lord of heresy & suicide). The cult was called "The Path of Grace" and had a lot of followers among the wealthy and powerful families of Westcrown, and also inside the Church of Aroden. Daidian followed the path of the typical American action hero. When his wife was murdered and the cult was implicated he tried to go through the authorities but nothing came of it (because they were corrupt). Then his son died so he renounced Aroden and turned into a vigilante. His original followers were former soldiers and guardsmen working with, and later outside, the law to bring down the demonic cult. He eventually went to prison for killing cult members, before his men broke him out and they became outlaws. Eventually he plead his case to the king who not only pardoned him but commissioned him to form a new knightly order to fight "those who would confound the efforts of civilized men". The original hellknight order. A group of former vigilante outlaws legitimized by the king.
They weren't popular with the Church of Aroden. Ruel disliked the church and refused to let his new order be consecrated by it. The Path of Grace was deeply embedded in the church, after all. There's no mention of what his knightly order was called, but they'd only been around for a month before the Church of Aroden started calling them "hellknights":
"4576, Erastus: Aroden's faithful denounce Ruel and his new knightly order, granting them the title "Hellknights." Ruel unmasks members of the Path of Grace among the church of Aroden's most esteemed benefactors, followed swiftly by their dramatic public executions"
Ruel didn't start researching hell and adding diabolic teachings into the hellknight bylaws until 4581/82. So the "hellknights" had nothing to do with hell for the first five years of their existence.
Like The Block Knight said before me, details about the different orders can be found in What Lies in Dust. The "best" orders for good hellknights tend to be the smaller orders (no doubt intentionally).
The Order of the Scar hunts assassins. Nothing particularly evil about their goals. It was founded before Thrune took over, and doesn't seem particularly diabolic. Which seems to be a theme for the Hellknight Orders located outside Cheliax.
The Order of the Pike hunts monsters. Again, a good place for a LG hellnight. Also founded before Thrune took over.
The Order of the Torrent focus on rescuing kidnapping victims. It is located inside Cheliax and was founded after the civil war, but there's nothing particularly evil about it.
Even the larger orders have some room for good members though.
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We don't know what the Hell knights are up to. We don't know about the bad things the hell knights do.
The only example I have is the inprisonment of Sascha Antif-Arah.
** spoiler omitted **.Castles of Golarion spills much more info on that particular order and Citadel Vraid itself. Ethnic "cleansing", prisoners(and failed Hellknights) being tortured to death or thrown to lemures for the same, and diabolic sacrifice.
It's probably the most detailed look at just how terrible certain Hellknight orders can be that we've gotten yet.
Mikazie, thank you. I'll have to read through the entry on Citadel Vraid. I suppose this tells us what hell knights do to their captives in their own dark dungeons.
Judge Dredd
Actually, thinking of hellknights in this light makes it a bit easier for me to understand them somehow, lol.
Though, the only thing that makes me iffy about the idea of Hellknights being only concerned about law is this: if they only cared about law, why do they only emulate Lawful Evil outsiders? If they really just wanted to be just be really 'lawful' why don't they associate with LG and especially LN outsiders as well? It isn't like a Lawful Evil being is inherently better at being lawful than the other two Lawful alignments.
They emulate the discipline and organization of Hell's armies, because those armies have the best discipline and organization. If Heaven had the best armies in regards to those two aspects, they'd likely emulate their armies instead.
Because plot?
@ Abby Temps, thank you :) I don't think that as an organization the HKs can be considered anything other than LE, sure more L than e, but still. Their inherent brutality, lack of mercy (to temper their justice) and unrestricted application of Law is way more evil than good. If they are on a scale, the scale has tipped. The three or four Good guys in thier midst does nothing to change the direction, goals and leadership of the HKs in general.
Maybe once upon a time they were concerned with correcting entropic influences, but now it's about maintaining a wicked status quo.
or, as Jello Biafra once said, "How many liberators really want to be dictators?"
@Are, the HKs made a concious decision to follow Hell's good (hah) example, they could have just as easily followed Heaven or Nirvana... with Nirvana making even more sense; it *is* order.
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@Are, the HKs made a concious decision to follow Hell's good (hah) example, they could have just as easily followed Heaven or Nirvana... with Nirvana making even more sense; it *is* order.
Nirvana is the peaceful, contemplative sort of order that sits on a mountain top surrounded by fluffy clouds and seeks enlightenment.
Heaven is nice and all, but it isn't really militant. It's a mountain with seven regions. There's no real structure beyond that and it's your choice if you move to a different reason. And, if you get to the top, you become an archon and spend the rest of eternity serving others. Oh, and the throne at the top is empty so there's no central power leading everyone.
By comparison, Hell is extremely structured with a clear hierarchy structured around the concepts of obedience and purpose. Nothing is random, everything was built and designed, and everything and everyone has a place AND knows their place. The legions of hell are about as close to military perfection as you can find in the known universe.
Plus, it's where Ruel's son went when he died. So he had a personal interest in knowing as much about it as possible.
Speaking of which, I just thought of another big reason why Ruel would pick Hell over Heaven. His son was, for all intents and purposes, and innocent victim of a demonic cult. But when he died, heaven didn't take him. Hell did. I can see a little bitterness over that one. I can also see Ruel summoning demons for his knights to kill as their final test, not just to teach his knights that even the armies of hell can be beaten but to prepare them for the day when they would go get his son back.
@Are, the HKs made a concious decision to follow Hell's good (hah) example, they could have just as easily followed Heaven or Nirvana... with Nirvana making even more sense; it *is* order.Nirvana is the peaceful, contemplative sort of order that sits on a mountain top surrounded by fluffy clouds and seeks enlightenment.
Heaven is nice and all, but it isn't really militant. It's a mountain with seven regions. There's no real structure beyond that and it's your choice if you move to a different reason. And, if you get to the top, you become an archon and spend the rest of eternity serving others. Oh, and the throne at the top is empty so there's no central power leading everyone.
By comparison, Hell is extremely structured with a clear hierarchy structured around the concepts of obedience and purpose. Nothing is random, everything was built and designed, and everything and everyone has a place AND knows their place. The legions of hell are about as close to military perfection as you can find in the known universe.
Plus, it's where Ruel's son went when he died. So he had a personal interest in knowing as much about it as possible.
Speaking of which, I just thought of another big reason why Ruel would pick Hell over Heaven. His son was, for all intents and purposes, and innocent victim of a demonic cult. But when he died, heaven didn't take him. Hell did. I can see a little bitterness over that one. I can also see Ruel summoning demons for his knights to kill as their final test, not just to teach his knights that even the armies of hell can be beaten but to prepare them for the day when they would go get his son back.
It also doesn't hurt that in the end it's far easier to study the military tactics of devils over those of archons. People who point this out kind of irk me. It's like saying amricans and japanese in the 19th century suddenly turned french because they emulated french military equipment and tactics. It's not because they wanted to be french. It's because at the time the french had the most enviable military around.
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I don't know how you follow the military tactics of outsiders in the first place. They tend to do things differently, being that they have different limbs, wings, spell like abilities, and some of them are orbs of light that pester your wizard all day "hey, listen!"
The books explicitly state that most HKs are LN and not LE so that by default kinda boots the "how are they not lawful evil?" question.
When I think HK I think strictly of Judge Dredd for LN and for LE orders/characters I think of Stasi and Gestapo.
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I don't know how you follow the military tactics of outsiders in the first place. They tend to do things differently, being that they have different limbs, wings, spell like abilities, and some of them are orbs of light that pester your wizard all day "hey, listen!"
My impression was that it was more a matter of emulating the organization, structure, organizational philosophy, and the like.
Less:
"You four teleport into the middle of the keep and blast the archers with the light rays you shoot from your tail!"
More:
"The Book of the Damned tells us that 'when an exceptional devil is selected for promotion they undergo a lengthy and terrifying torment befitting its new would-be incarnation. Should the devil survive this torture—a fate that is never assured—it emerges transformed into a new being, a member of a greater diabolical breed with all the rights and standing of that form.'
In this way, hell molds its armies so that only the strongest survive promotion. Authority and asskicking are inseparable in the armies of hell. Similarly, advancement through the ranks of the Hellknights is not without trial, risk, or consequence. No one is promoted simply to fill a quota, or in recognition of time served. There is no guarantee of advancement. Armigers are molded over time through brutal training methods so they learn to control their fear and pain, with stronger armigers leading their less ready companions. Every Hellknight earns the title through single combat with a devil conjured from the vaults of hell. Leadership among Hellknights is further constricted so that only the strongest and best achieve dominance. Each rank is harder to achieve than the rank before, and each Hellknight can look at his superior and know that the person issuing orders has (quite literally) overcome Hell to earn that right."
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So yeah--even if we've accidentally made the group sound primarily evil, I know that Wes (their creator) would say that the whole thing that makes the Hellknights cool is that they're *not* necessarily evil--just super hard-liner lawful cop-types... with maybe a bit more leaning toward the "Judge Dredd" mindset than we modern folks would be okay with. (After all, I didn't say there *weren't* lots of LE folks in there. :D)
This is one of the very few instances in which the setting developers are just wrong, wrong, wrong, and I know better. :)
The books explicitly state that most HKs are LN and not LE so that by default kinda boots the "how are they not lawful evil?" question.
Because they say so? OK. Got it. Except the consistent verbage used to describe them is the same verbage you would use to describe any other Evil organization.
Are explicit threats of violence 'evil'? How about when they shift from threats to warnings that are then acted upon?
Is torture evil? What if it's just a good knock-about with bare fists and not drowning/burning to confession to await execution?
Any example of 'it was legal to hold slaves' needs to be evaluated against measures of good in it's own context. Do Good creatures in Pathfinder *own* other sentient beings? What if the conditions of bondage are such the slave is sure to die or be permanently maimed due to his status?
Again, I beleive the HKs (by their own descriptions!!!) are LE, and LN if you are 'morally ambivalent'. They are in no way LG, and how could a member of the order maintain their alignment in the face of consistent evil? How many times does the Paladin have to ignore the torture and starvation of prisoners before slipping into LN? Or, does he defy his superiors and slip into NG?
If four of the members are LE, and five are LN, and the lone Pally is (obviously) LG, what happens when the four LE's decide to 'extract information' from the merchant's daughter. She has done nothing except not know where the thieves ran off. So, they beat her until she confesses. Does Bob the Pally let it happen, or does he stop it? Does he have a third choice? See, the HKs are doing "LAW" by pursuing the thieves, and in their own words(!) "They are not concerned with methods. They are concerned with results." (ISWG, p266). At the end of the day, they capture the thieves, and LAW is satisfied. But at what cost?
"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you." --Fred N.