So I have this place in my world named Germain, and, due to issues that have already come to pass it's basically missing all of it's magical ley lines. Essentially that means it, and every single hex within 2 hexes of it is considered completely devoid of all magic.
To make up for this they've taken to crafting up mechanical weapons that are a bit beyond the normal longsword, though most of them have tradeoffs.
One such weapon was the "Pile Driver" which is, laughably, wrist-mounted. It's a large, bulky piece of equipment that gives whoever's silly enough to use it a -1, and is considered a masterwork weapon off the bat. (Setting it's price to 315 Gp)
What I want to know is if that's a reasonable price for this thing, but before I do that I need to explain what it does.
As a full-round action that does provoke an attack of opportunity, the Pile Driver can be pulled into the cumbersome wrist sheathe. As a standard action, the player can perform a touch attack that deals a bonus 2d6 piercing damage (On top of the Pile Drivers already-existing 1d6 Bludgeoning/Slashing). The recoil of this damage deals 1d6 damage to the player, almost as if it had the vicious quality. The major difference, however, is that if the player misses the touch attack then he has nothing to brace against and the force of the weapon drags him prone immediately.
Before I went to create this thing, I skimmed the Numerian books to see if I could find anything about crafting such a weapon, but couldn't find anything. What would you all suggest? It basically has the Vicious Weapon quality, but isn't considered magical. What's more is if you missed, you might just get yourself killed.
It'd be interesting to see what it does as a 'base' weapon. And with the 'strapped to wrist' thing expect some 'discussion' about whether it occupies the hand.
Does the -1 interact with the masterwork weapon +1? (Just asking.)
When the 'pile' is retracted, is the weapon still usable? And what sort of crit status do the normal and enhanced versions have? 20/x2 isn't as good as, say, 19-20/x3.
Also wondering how much it weighs, and how they're making it.
First impression is that it's not much beyond a normal weapon mechanically, aside from a loaded "alpha strike" as a touch attack, with some risk. Can it be used on a charge? Does the touch attack include Str bonus to damage and such?
Thematically, it seems pretty neat.
Pile Driver
Martial Weapon Proficiency required
Category: Melee
Fighter Weapon Group: Close
Damage Type: Bludgeoning/Slashing/Piercing
Critical Multiplier: x3
Cost: 365 Gp
Weight: 12 pounds
Damage: 1d6 (+2d6)
The Pile Driver is a weapon of Germainian origin. The weapon imparts a -1 to hit when not masterwork, but grants no bonuses or penalties while masterwork. The weapon may be used as a bludgeoning weapon while the blade/pile is retracted, or while the blade is out. Bludgeoning when it's in, and Slashing when it's out.
The touch attack may be used any time that the player can make an attack action. They can use it as an Attack of Opportunity, as part of a full attack (Though it uses that attack's bonus at the time.)
The player can use a regular attack against AC to use the pile as well, in addition to it's normal bludgeoning damage, but they must declare this before the attack roll is made, and failure results in the prone effect. (Though no damage is taken for a missed pile drive)
It also misfires on a critical failure and is cleared in the same way a gun is, but is not subject to the effects of quick clear.
The Pile Driver's "Alpha Strike" does not deal extra damage based on strength (Though feats I've made for my campaign setting can allow you to add half the bonus damage your normal melee attack does to that, but you take half-again as much damage.)
I thought this was going to be a thread about how to perform the classic pro wrestling piledriver in Pathfinder.
Anyhow, after reading about your custom weapon I feel uncertain of whether it needs to be "reloaded" or put back into firing position after each shot or whether the full round action is just to get the weapon out in the first place. I also don't understand why missing would make you fall prone.
The sheer forward force needs to be braced against an object, or the pull of it will knock you straight to the ground. It does need to be put back into firing position with the same full round action, as well.
The full-round action is setting the pile back into the weapon. You don't need new piles.
I think you'd have an "equal and opposite reaction", but I suppose that if dragons can fly then worrying about the physics of a spike shooting wristband might be pedantic. It might be nice if there were some sort of save or check to avoid falling prone. Personally I'd probably force that check regardless of whether the attack hit or not, but I suppose what you're imagining might be different from what I'm thinking of.
Considering that it takes a full round action to get ready for another touch attack I don't think that the weapon is too powerful for its cost. Granted, it is cheaper than a firearm, but it also doesn't have any range and has some drawbacks.
I find the bit about the weapon granting penalties when it isn't masterwork but no bonuses when it is a little confusing and wonder if it wouldn't be easier to just say it imposes a -1 on attack rolls (which the +1 from masterwork would balance out)
Maybe the intent is for MW drivers to be +0 to hit, but for +1 drivers to be +1 to hit.
I rather like the idea of Devil Killer's involving the universal -1 on attack rolls being mitigated by Masterwork quality.
As for the opposed check, I believe a Dc 14 strength check would be enough to avoid going prone. (seeing as a character with 18 strength only has a +4, that gives them a 50% chance)
The sheer forward force needs to be braced against an object, or the pull of it will knock you straight to the ground. It does need to be put back into firing position with the same full round action, as well.
The full-round action is setting the pile back into the weapon. You don't need new piles.
Amusingly, with a powerful enough system you would see an effect similar to your penalties due to the forces involved, but in reverse to what your penalties describe.
If your weapon misses, the extreme force pushing against the user would be balanced out by the extreme force stopping the pile driver from flying out of the weapon. The impulses applied to the user would be equal, so all it would really do is knock their arm back a little and then stop it. However, unless the part of the weapon that checks the rapidly moving blade is large and bulky enough to slow down the blade over a period of time, there will be an extremely short but powerful force acting on the user from the weapon. This jolt counteracts the firing force of the weapon, but could injure the user if it's powerful enough. The reason behind this is basically the same as "it's not the fall that kills you, it's the sudden stop at the bottom". The injury is fairly limited though. There would probably only be time to damage the user's arm.
However, if the weapon hits, you have an extremely powerful spring (or similar system, it doesn't actually matter) pushing the user and the target apart. If it's powerful enough, it could send the user flying (and the target too, unless it is much larger than the user). The system would need to be absurdly powerful for either of these things to happen, though. To push the user back at twice walking speed(a bit hard to brace against, but probably not impossible), a 2.5 pound blade would be thrown forward at transonic speeds (assuming the blade was completely stopped by the target, otherwise the speeds would be higher!!!). You would be hitting the target with roughly the energy of an auto-cannon round. I think that might be worth a little more that what you are giving it if you are concerned about the forces involved. D20 modern puts autocannon rounds at 4d12, so I would consider that as reasonable for the recoil you give it. If you want to actually try to model the effects of the weapon with the recoil properties you have assigned it, that is.
EDIT: Oh, and it's probably worth pointing out that a weapon powerful enough to fling a user back that hard will also probably break many of the users's bones, and it might even be powerful enough to break the user's arm even if the weapon misses.
However, if the weapon hits, you have an extremely powerful spring (or similar system, it doesn't actually matter) pushing the user and the target apart. If it's powerful enough, it could send the user flying (and the target too, unless it is much larger than the user). The system would need to be absurdly powerful for either of these things to happen, though. To push the user back at twice walking speed(a bit hard to brace against, but probably not impossible), a 2.5 pound blade would be thrown forward at transonic speeds (assuming the blade was completely stopped by the target, otherwise the speeds would be higher!!!). You would be hitting the target with roughly the energy of an auto-cannon round. I think that might be worth a little more that what you are giving it if you are concerned about the forces involved. D20 modern puts autocannon rounds at 4d12, so I would consider that as reasonable for the recoil you give it. If you want to actually try to model the effects of the weapon with the recoil properties you have assigned it, that is.
EDIT: Oh, and it's probably worth pointing out that a weapon powerful enough to fling a user back that hard will also probably break many of the users's bones, and it might even be powerful enough to break the user's arm even if the weapon misses.
Now this sounds fun and carries a much greater risk/reward. As is, I can see little reason to ever use it, but this on the other hand... Then again I like the idea of extremely powerful weapons with a risk of severely inuring yourself.
Pile Driver
Martial Weapon Proficiency required
Category: Melee
Fighter Weapon Group: Close
Damage Type: Bludgeoning/Slashing/Piercing
Critical Multiplier: x3
Cost: 365 Gp
Weight: 12 pounds
Damage: 1d6 (+2d6)
The Pile Driver is a weapon of Germainian origin. The weapon imparts a -1 to hit when not masterwork, but grants no bonuses or penalties while masterwork. The weapon may be used as a bludgeoning weapon while the blade/pile is retracted, or while the blade is out. Bludgeoning when it's in, and Slashing when it's out.The touch attack may be used any time that the player can make an attack action. They can use it as an Attack of Opportunity, as part of a full attack (Though it uses that attack's bonus at the time.)
The player can use a regular attack against AC to use the pile as well, in addition to it's normal bludgeoning damage, but they must declare this before the attack roll is made, and failure results in the prone effect. (Though no damage is taken for a missed pile drive)
It also misfires on a critical failure and is cleared in the same way a gun is, but is not subject to the effects of quick clear.
The Pile Driver's "Alpha Strike" does not deal extra damage based on strength (Though feats I've made for my campaign setting can allow you to add half the bonus damage your normal melee attack does to that, but you take half-again as much damage.)
So, Assasain's Creed hidden blade on steroids?
There are a couple of things I question about this weapon.
Assuming if I understand correctly, at it's base it is a one-handed (assuming it's not a light weapon) that deals 1d6 damage of any of the three types at a -1 attack penalty, with a x3 critical, assuming the weapon is left sprung. This on it's own makes it a weapon that I would snatch up in a heartbeat for a lot of my characters, as a -1 to hit is nothing for most melee characters.
What's more, making it a close weapon means that if I were a brawler, I could two-hand, double flurry this thing, which means at 2nd level, I could have 2 touch attacks, totaling to 6d6 points of damage. Even at once per a combat, that's powerful.
The recoil on these things isn't so much a concern to me. At 10th level, players are two-handing weapons that shear through metal with laughable ease. Plus with clever engineering, this presumably works (I wouldn't think that this is more strenuous on the body than firing a modern firearm in each hand.)
Finally, a couple of quick mechanics questions:
- Is this a one-handed, non-light weapon?
- If I left Germain, and got this enchanted, is it effectively a +1 weapon that grants a +0 enhancement bonus to attack rolls (+1 to damage).
EDIT: Also, my 4 armed Mutation Warrior is going to have a field day! Also, what about ditching on the penalty to attacks, and instead granting a -2 Armor Check Penalty(applying to attack rolls as well)?
since it is a touch attack, you get no str bonus to the damage
Why not?
I used them as the weapon of choice for an order of female paladins in my homebrew setting, but they basically were melee firearms. They would provoke AoOs without feats, needed reloading like guns(which usually provoked too) and had a misfire chance. However adding STR was default though and I think they were d12 damage weapons. I also recall I had a feat chain that let them hit touch of the target was flat footed or flanked.
Players thought they were very cool flavor wise, but were not very impressed with them in combat till a power attack crit times 4 and one shotted a Pit Fiend. Good times.
I'm glad you found my input helpful and think that the roll to avoid being knocked prone sounds fair enough. If you gave dwarves and other creatures who get a bonus against being tripped a bonus on that roll it might encourage them to use the weapon. I wonder if something similar could be built into a dwarf's shield. Maybe using the Trip mechanics directly would work out better in some ways.
@Snowblind - You seem to be imagining the way the physics might work more like I do.