My first ever caster - Cleric advice please!


Advice


So, I've played Pathfinder for about a year now, and D&D 3.5 for a year or so before that, and am looking for some advice on a Cleric. I have only ever played martial classes in the past (Barbarian, Fighter, Rogue), and have never before made a caster - prepared or otherwise.

I've read through several guides and, while I like a lot of the ideas on builds, they either don't quite seem to fit my character concept, or are optimised beyond reason (while thats not a bad thing as I love theory-crafting, I don't want to outshine the group too much). So I thought I would ask those who are more experienced for some general tips, and to float around some ideas.

Giving you the party composition, we're starting an Emerald Spire party (no spoilers please) with a party of four, where the three others who are not very experienced:
Cleric (me)
Bard (wants to be flambuoyant with a Whip and a Bass Guitar)
Rogue (Unchained Knife Master)
Barbarian (Hack and Slash)

My character - having given a brief bit of background about the area, my character wants to be a NG character who plays a Warrior of the Light type, worshipping ideals more than a Deity, who has a passionate hate for the undead, and is driven by his want to train and study to help turn the tide against an extra-planar invasion of Demons and other evil-y things.

The credentials:
1. Will be going into an old PrC from 3.5 (Radiant Servent of Pelor) but modified for 3.P as early as possible - Radiant Servant (hope that link worked)
2. Has rolled stats of: 16,16,16,15,13,10.
3. Will have 4+Int skill ranks per level, instead of 2+Int.
4. We are given Max HP at each level whilst monsters aren't, so am heading towards the Skill Rank Favoured Class bonus. Open to suggestion.
5. Am allowed to cast Somatic spells whilst holding a Heavy Shield.
6. Must be a regular Cleric (no Archetypes).
7. Needs the prequisites of the PrC.
8. Would ideally like Knowledge Planes for fluff.
9. Have been allowed to roll Aasimar. I like Angel Blooded for the Daylight spell (fluffy), but am open to suggestion.
10. Would prefer Heavy Armour Prof, but not essential. I just like the idea of big shiny armour for the character concept.
11. Must have Sun Domain as one choice. Other idea is Community for helping the Barbarian and to give him a sense of what he is fighting for, but suggestions welcome.
12. Have no idea what to pick for traits as there are so very many out there... any fluffy suggestions?
13. I will always prefer fluffy ideas over optimised ones (probably)
14. Starting at first level going to about level twelve.

I would love to head towards the more caster heavy type of Cleric. Weathering all damage and being a beacon of light floats my boat. And given the inexperience of the group, I'd prefer to put more emphasis on buffing them/debuffing the enemy so that they can make the kill. So essentially being their shield, and the arm on their shoulder.

The problem is, I have no experience with spells in any shape or form (other than reaping their benefits). Any suggestions would be incredibly welcome!

My idea for the moment is:
Str 15
Dex 13
Con 16 (weathering all damage starts with HP)
Int 10 (already got good skill ranks)
Wis 18 (casting)
Cha 18 (hates undead, though channeling is bufffed by Sun Domain and PrC)

Favoured Bonus in Skills
Ranks (4+0+FCB=5) in:
Heal (need 2 ranks for PrC)
Perception (cross class, but high Wisdom)
Spellcraft or Knowledge Arcana (needed?)
Knowledge Religion (need 6 ranks for PrC)
Knowledge Planes (fluffy and useful)

No idea for feats, except possibly making the most of Channelling, maybe Heavy Armour Prof, and maybe Metamagic? Though what to metamagic-ise I wouldn't know.

As for what spells to take at levels...? Bless, Bulls strength, that sort of thing? And do I cast each battle? What do I do whilst not casting? Things for me to puzzle out with your help.

Thanks in advance for your comments,
Crag


You want you cleric to become a Pathfinder-converted Radiant Servant of Pelor at 7th level (the link did work). The only part of the prerequisites to watch for are the Sun domain and taking the Extra Channeling feat at 1st, 3rd, or 5th level. The Will save and skill requirements are trivial.

Your party has three characters, rogue, bard, and barbarian, who will take melee damage while lightly armored, so that Extra Channeling feat will come in handy. Your cleric won't need to do mid-combat healing, but gathering together for a healing channel after a battle will become routine. And, of course, he could also use the channel against hordes of undead. Don't expect to be the shield for them, for they will rush headlong into battle. To move at the same rate, perhaps your cleric could chose light armor, too, supplemented by a heavy shield and the Shield of Faith spell. Ignore this if your party contains slow dwarves, halflings, or gnomes.

For winning battles, your cleric and the bard will want to buff the party on the first round. Bless would have been good, but it is a morale bonus and does not stack with the bard's Inspire Courage song. Bane is second place after Bless, but it must be cast closer to one's enemies, so Combat Casting would be a useful feat at first level. Extra Channeling could wait until third level. For fifth level, Weapon Focus(Ray) would benefit Searing Light, which I presume will be your cleric's favorite spell. On the other hand, if your party finds itself taking more damage than your channels can heal, a crafting feat such as Scribe Scroll or Craft Wand would give you affordable extra sources of healing.

A cleric can fight in melee at low levels, all he needs is decent Strength. If your cleric wears medium armor, swap the 16 from Con to Str and your cleric will have decent Strength. The bard's Inspire Courage will help. The importance of being the primary spellcaster in the party is battlefield control, but a cleric has no decent battlefield control spells at first level.

See if your GM will allow your cleric to prepare Blinding Ray, a second-level spell for Dhampirs only. It would be thematic.


Oooh, I like the idea of Blinding Ray. Using the power of light to harm/destroy foes is exactly what I'm after! Weapon Focus (Ray) is something I hadn't noticed before, and the combination would certainly give my character a signature move :-)

Good catch on Bless - I would have completely overlooked that, so will have a look at other low level options - like the Shield of Faith you suggested. Thematically, the shimmering helps with the image I'm after!

Combat Casting is something I would certainly benefit from, hoping to be closer to the front lines than a usual caster. Its something I want my character to do, as an almost inspiring character.

I'm not sure how much downtime there will be in the campaign so I will ask the GM is Scribe Scroll and Craft Wand would be worthwhile me taking. Hes usually pretty open to those kinds of suggestions without giving any spoilers.

Many thanks!
-Crag

Grand Lodge

2 hammers and 2 arms is an unbalanced group as bards make poor anvils.

There is no feat called Extra Turning...is this going to be replaced with something?

Just for the record channeling in PF is best done with an Oracle and is a sub-par ability. Damage always outweighs healing. Usually you are wasting your potential taking any channel feats on a cleric (unless your Hangover cleric build). But if your ok with being average and playing a band aid then go for it if you think that is a fun playstyle.

Throw away the shield Idea and pick up a long spear and Combat reflexes. You will not need to cast defensively as often, will get in more damage, and can use your standard action for buffing. Reach is actually the best combat choice for a cleric.

Your Heavy armor want stems from 3.5. I play lots of clerics and light armor is enough...medium is more than enough.

Trait wise I like fate's favored, Transmuter, and Birthmark (always have a holy symbol that does not need to be held...put it on the back of your hand.)

As for being Casty...You can focus on summoning and buffing. You group lacks control magics so dropping extra bodies to take hits will help you heal less often and end fights quicker. Letting the bard buff the summon creature they will be amazing flank buddies. Summons also bring SLA with them adding to your spells per day. I also like buying a lesser rod of toppling spell to pair with spiritual weapon (an under rated spell).

My favorite spells: Command, Bless, Shield of Faith, spiritual weapon, Animal Buffs (Bull's str), Prayer, Blessing of Fervor, Life Bubble (underrated), Death ward, Blade Barrier, Suggestion, Summon Monster, Breath of Life, Divine Power/Favor and Heal.

The Exchange

Bards make better controllers then you give them credit for, Fruian. Some of the best wizard spells are on their spell list, I.e sleep, glitterdust, fear.

Extra channeling, selective channeling. How about worshipping Ra (he's a sun god), for variant channeling Rulership(half your channel dmg, crearures have to will save or get dazed for 1 round)? Take the negative energy channel version.

Lv 1:Selective channel
Lv 3: Versatile channel
Lv 5: Extra channels

Summons, unless you get outsiders, may not be that useful in some parts of emerald spire. But that's spoiler territory.


You may as well keep porting over options from 3.5 and grab yourself a Shield Gauntlet because a Heavy Shield requires one hand to actually hold onto the shield; it's a Light Shield that leaves said hand free. Shield Gauntlet is meant for 3.5 Divine Casters to be able to cast Somatic spells from their Shield hand.

There are so many extra features Bro you don't need any more boons unless the other characters are getting them too. Your rolled stats equal a 40-point seed. If the others are equivalent or better you are more powerful than the dungeon already. If the DM runs it as is, you guys are not going to be fighting every encounter with your backs against the wall, and congratulations on party composition for having the GOLDEN Arcane(Bard), Martial(Barbarian), Divine(Cleric), and Trap(Rogue) rectangle of adventurers.

If you want +4 skill points you may as well go Oracle. You can be super-healer all day with the right build. Or Super-Focus in a certain style. Oracles are also not bound to a Deity per se, but the Mystery they choose to pursue. Angel-Blooded Aasimar Oracle (Purifier) with their favored-class bonus to Revelations... yum! It's so fluffy and it boosts Heal AND Knowledge: Planes.

Don't throw away feats trying to do what other classes do. Focus on what you want to be good at, and if it sounds like Not-Cleric, then go with the Class that best suits your goals.

Is there any reason you don't want to rock any archetypes at all?

It's looking like Rogue and Barbarian are gonna dominate the field.

Grand Lodge

Just a Mort wrote:

Bards make better controllers then you give them credit for, Fruian. Some of the best wizard spells are on their spell list, I.e sleep, glitterdust, fear.

Summons, unless you get outsiders, may not be that useful in some parts of emerald spire. But that's spoiler territory.

I know the spell list...I also know that they get less spells a day compared to wizard, sorcerer, arcanist...and every other full caster. Plus the spell progression gets behind other classes.

Bards can pull some control duty but they perform better in the other 2 roles than as anvil. I in no way have miss judged the class and have played bards...even recommend them from time to time when they would fit. In this case most the players are inexperienced. Mastering a caster bard takes some know how to pull off. So I just suggested he help anvil slightly to help offset the resource drain that will come by putting the burden on a completely inexperienced bard player.


Entirely different advice for a first-time caster:

KNOW YOUR SPELLS

Buy spell cards, buy 3 X 5 index cards and make you own, make your own spreadsheet that automatically calculates all the variables; whatever, just know your spells backwards and forwards.

As a DM or Player, few things are as teeth-grindingly annoying as watching someone fumble around trying to figure out which spell to cast or how the spell they've finally chosen actually works.

In tandem with that advice: Choose a default spell list.

You should have a list of spells that you always have memorized on any given day. That way, if the DM surprises you with something, your spell list is done.


Mykull wrote:

Entirely different advice for a first-time caster:

KNOW YOUR SPELLS

Buy spell cards, buy 3 X 5 index cards and make you own, make your own spreadsheet that automatically calculates all the variables; whatever, just know your spells backwards and forwards.

As a DM or Player, few things are as teeth-grindingly annoying as watching someone fumble around trying to figure out which spell to cast or how the spell they've finally chosen actually works.

In tandem with that advice: Choose a default spell list.

You should have a list of spells that you always have memorized on any given day. That way, if the DM surprises you with something, your spell list is done.

Very well said. Running a spell caster without bogging down the game takes some pregame planning. I always make a spread sheet of my available spells.

I would add that when you have time make memorized spell lists for several settings - dungeon crawl, city adventure, maritime, forest, jungle, desert, mountains, fighting undead, etc. You will do a much better job of picking spells ahead of time then doing so on the fly.


Fruian Thistlefoot - Many thanks for the advice on Spells and Traits. Birthmark is a no-brainer! Hadn't seen that either (so much to see, so little time...) I will think about picking up a reach weapon of some description, depending on how combat starts to look.

Just a Mort - I'm not sure Ra fits my character sadly. Whilst he does focus on the Sun, it's less about the actual sun, and more about the Light on the Light/Dark scale - its just that the Sun Domain fits the bill :-) though variant channeling is very interesting...

Avaricious - Yep, we got the perfect 4 ;-) I had thought about the Shield Gauntlet actually, but alas, it requires a further proficiency, meaning another feat. What you said about not trying to do what other do (and thus throwing away feats) - that is solid advice. I hadn't thought about it like that. I forget that I don't have to cover every aspect of everything ever... just be good at what I do :-)
The reason I don't want any Archetypes is because the GM has already boosted me plenty, and I'm not sure those boosts will carry over to Archetypes. And aside from that, I always wanted to build a Cleric!

Mykull and Big Blue 22 - Excellent advice! Just excellent. This will be perfect in helping me collate what spells I have/want/cast/etc for any situation. I have already started cutting out miniaturised spell cards and laminating them. Also means that I am fully prepared at level up too, meaning that I can pre-select the spells I will want at the appropriate levels, with spell descriptions on one side, and its uses on the other side. Good call!

Thanks everyone, a lot of food for thought :-)
-Crag

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