So when using an effect like Enlarge Person, where the creatures size changes....I'm unclear as to if I have been doing it right.
Under the rules for size change, it says that (for example) if a creature goes from Medium to Large....they gain a +8 Str, -2 Dex...
Enlarge Person says they get a +2 size bonus to Str, and take a penalty of -2 to Dex.
So does Enlarge person only grant a +2 to Str (which is why I have never bothered with it)....or does it grant the +8 for the size increase, and an additional +2 ?
Enlarge person grants exactly what the spell says, no other implicit bonuses and penalties.
That's what I thought....so not really worth it.
I have always thought, and seen, that the increased reach was the most significant aspect of enlarge person.
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Also the dice category of you weapons improves, so you deal 2d6 damage with a longsword or 3d6 with a greatsword, for example.
That's what I thought....so not really worth it.
Finding a more permanent solution is better than just the spell.
Currently I was working on a build that involved the "Haunted" Spiritualist archetype...
But having one half of the team taken out of the equation (due to nauseated condition)for a +2 Str seems kind of like a bad call....even with the benefits gained at later levels.
Reach is great if your getting enough of a bonus to land attacks, and doing enough damage to make them count....but on it's own it's kind of lackluster....at least IMO....
Enlarge person grants exactly what the spell says, no other implicit bonuses and penalties.
It's because that spell doesn't have the polymorph descriptor. If it had that descriptor you'd also gain the bonuses for the size change in the polymorph table.
Enlarge person grants exactly what the spell says, no other implicit bonuses and penalties.It's because that spell doesn't have the polymorph descriptor. If it had that descriptor you'd also gain the bonuses for the size change in the polymorph table.
If you're getting it from a spell you get what the spell says and nothing more. Turn into huge dragon? +10 str, regardless of if you're small or medium. If you were large you'd actually have to adjust your stats before applying the effects of the spell per the polymorph rules.
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At low levels, it's actually decent; as long as you have a decent melee attack bonus to start with, at least. It's only a 1st-level spell, after all.
It's better when coupled with a reach weapon, a weapon with large damage dice, and/or lead blades. For example, a half-elf (Ancestral Arms with bastard sword) divine hunter (Plant/Growth domain) can cast lead blades and use a swift action enlarge person domain ability, while wielding a Large bastard sword, to smack opponents for 4d8 + Str mod (increased by enlarge person). At 3rd level.
Granted, at higher levels spells like giant form, monstrous physique, and righteous might are better options.
Just seems like (+2 to str) is a bit lacking for taking one half of your options out of the mix.....
what do you mean taking half of options away?
Enlarge person is a damage and threatened area boosting ability at the cost of AC. it can grant 1d6+2 damage pretty easily for the -2 ac you lose.
Enlarge person is a great buff for a big dumb fighter type, particularly any two-handed weapon user. Size bonuses stack with enhancement bonuses, so even at high levels its a useful buff. Build a character to work with it and it can become outstanding.
It's not much good for DEX-based combat characters, but if you're smart you can even make archery work with it. Make sure you have a large composite longbow that you are not holding at the time enlarge person is cast. Then pick up the bow; your large longbow will do 2d6 damage instead of 1d8 and you will have an extra +1 damage for STR, at the cost of a -2 to hit.
Edit: and Galahad is right; you have a 10' reach but can still attack targets only 5' away. If you also have a reach weapon you can attack targets 10' or 15' away.
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Currently I was working on a build that involved the "Haunted" Spiritualist archetype...
But having one half of the team taken out of the equation (due to nauseated condition)for a +2 Str seems kind of like a bad call....even with the benefits gained at later levels.
As he mentioned earlier in the thread, nighttree is talking specifically about the usage of Enlarge Person in the Haunted archetype of the Spiritualist. In that specific case, he may be right in that it is not worth the trade-off, but that is due to the archetype's part of the effect, not Enlarge Person's part.
what do you mean taking half of options away?
Enlarge person is a damage and threatened area boosting ability at the cost of AC. it can grant 1d6+2 damage pretty easily for the -2 ac you lose.
Sorry, I was referring to the spiritualist being taken completely out of the equation (due to nauseated condition)...in return for a +2 Str and +2 AC to the Phantom...on average that's going to be a +1 to hit and dmg...the Spiritualist being up and running can do significantly more damage than that.