Does a +1 Keen Evil Outsider Bane Longsword bypass DR 5/Cold Iron on a Fey?
I know a fey isn't an outsider, the root of the question I'm asking is +3 equivalent weapon enough for it count as a Cold Iron weapon? Or do I need a weapon with an actual enhancement bonus of +3?
Outsider bane wont work, but Fey Bane would.
Remember banes raises the enhancement bonus of the weapon by 2 against the correct opponent type. So it's just as if it were a +3 weapon if you had a +1 fey bane weapon.
Since a regular +3 weapon bypasses cold iron and silver a _+1 fey bane weapon would bypass such DR on a fey.
Okay, that was my thought too, but a player pointed out the second part of this FAQ. I'm wondering does this equivalence only apply for Epic DR?
Essentially, there are now two ways to overcome DR/epic with magic weapons.
The first way is presented in the Universal Monster Rules in the Bestiary: You can use a weapon that has an actual enhancement bonus of +6 or higher. Currently the Pathfinder RPG has no weapons with a permanent +6 or higher enhancement bonus (though you can temporarily achieve a +6 or higher enhancement bonus with certain magical or class abilities).
The second way is presented in Mythic Adventures: You can use a weapon that has a total "plus-equivalent" of +6 or higher. For example, a +1 vorpal longsword and a +2 flaming frost shock keen longsword both are +6-equivalent magic weapons.
A weapon with a conditional or variable enhancement bonus, such as bane or furious, gets the best of both options. As a baseline, it include the plus-equivalences for its enhancement bonuses and special abilities; when the conditional or variable enhancement bonuses activate, it adds those to its total as well.
For example, a +3 undead-bane longsword is a +4-equivalent weapon, which on its own is not enough to overcome DR/epic. When used against an undead creature, its enhancement bonus increases by an additional +2, making it effectively a +6-equivalent weapon (+3 baseline enhancement bonus, +1-equivalent from bane, +2 conditional enhancement bonus against undead from bane) and therefore able to overcome that undead creature's DR/epic. (Another way of looking at it is when bane is active, you add its conditional +2 enhancement bonus to the weapon's normal +4-equivalent bonus, temporarily giving you a +6-equivalent weapon).
Correct, it's epic only.
Okay, and just to be absolutely sure, and put the matter to rest.
I know tables aren't rules, but the table in Damage Reduction in the glossary is titled:
Weapon Enhancement Bonus Equivalent
Though there is no indication as to what they mean by "equivalent".
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Okay, and just to be absolutely sure, and put the matter to rest.
I know tables aren't rules, but the table in Damage Reduction in the glossary is titled:
Weapon Enhancement Bonus EquivalentThough there is no indication as to what they mean by "equivalent".
... Hadn't noticed that. Please disregard my answer while I question everything I've ever known.
Now you know how I feel.
As written in the FAQ, the 'add everything up and bane on top' rule applies to epic damage reduction only. I don't have the actual book, so I can't say more here. And it's only relevant if Mythic Adventures is allowed at the table.
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Reading the text that preceeds the quoted table I have understood "weapon enhancement equivalent" to indicate what numeric value of weapon enhancement is equivalent to what DR bypass requirement.
Reading the text that preceeds the quoted table I have understood "weapon enhancement equivalent" to indicate what numeric value of weapon enhancement is equivalent to what DR bypass requirement.
Thank you!
Okay, that was my thought too, but a player pointed out the second part of this FAQ. I'm wondering does this equivalence only apply for Epic DR?
Essentially, there are now two ways to overcome DR/epic with magic weapons.
The first way is presented in the Universal Monster Rules in the Bestiary: You can use a weapon that has an actual enhancement bonus of +6 or higher. Currently the Pathfinder RPG has no weapons with a permanent +6 or higher enhancement bonus (though you can temporarily achieve a +6 or higher enhancement bonus with certain magical or class abilities).
The second way is presented in Mythic Adventures: You can use a weapon that has a total "plus-equivalent" of +6 or higher. For example, a +1 vorpal longsword and a +2 flaming frost shock keen longsword both are +6-equivalent magic weapons.
A weapon with a conditional or variable enhancement bonus, such as bane or furious, gets the best of both options. As a baseline, it include the plus-equivalences for its enhancement bonuses and special abilities; when the conditional or variable enhancement bonuses activate, it adds those to its total as well.
For example, a +3 undead-bane longsword is a +4-equivalent weapon, which on its own is not enough to overcome DR/epic. When used against an undead creature, its enhancement bonus increases by an additional +2, making it effectively a +6-equivalent weapon (+3 baseline enhancement bonus, +1-equivalent from bane, +2 conditional enhancement bonus against undead from bane) and therefore able to overcome that undead creature's DR/epic. (Another way of looking at it is when bane is active, you add its conditional +2 enhancement bonus to the weapon's normal +4-equivalent bonus, temporarily giving you a +6-equivalent weapon).
I think that's only in Mythic Adventures. I have never seen the "plus equivalent" text anywhere else.
The + equivalent only applies to epic yes, but this is primarily because there is no other way to bypass DR epic.
However, a +1 bane weapon against the creature type it has for bane functions effectively like a +3 weapon. Which means like any +3 weapon, it will bypass cold iron or silver DR.
Now, if you ask about a +1 holy weapon (which is a +3 equivalent weapon) it will not overcome DR cold iron or silver because it is not functioning as a +3 weapon. It would overcome DR good, but that is because of the holy special quality.
Does the satisfactorily answer the question?
Previously when answering I missed the part about +1 keen bane which would make it a +3 weapon, and so I misunderstood what was really being asked (does a +3 equivalent weapon overcome DR).
The answer is no, only a +6 equivalent overcomes DR epic. There is no other relation to "equivalent enhancement" and damage reduction except for DR epic.
Okay, and just to be absolutely sure, and put the matter to rest.
I know tables aren't rules, but the table in Damage Reduction in the glossary is titled:
Weapon Enhancement Bonus EquivalentThough there is no indication as to what they mean by "equivalent".
It's just there to tell you that having a +3 weapon is equivalent to having a weapon that is cold iron or silver, that a +4 weapon is equivalent to having a adamantine weapon, and having a +5 weapon is equivalent to having an aligned weapon for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction.
Yeah, that answers the questions I had. Thanks again everyone!
It was what I suspected but this weird equivalent thing in the Epic DR FAQ really threw me for a loop. Especially because you can end up in weird situations like a +1 Keen Bane Wounding weapon bypassing Epic DR, but not Good DR.
I'm running a WotR game at the moment, so Epic DR is something I need to think about.