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Maneuver the Grapples?

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I'm kind of new to this grappling business, and I was just wondering...can the maneuver master use her flurry of maneuvers to grapple and pin in the same round?

It depends. What abilities are we talking about? Can you link/quote relevant rules?

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-a rchetypes/maneuver-master

The Maneuver Master, at level 1, it says you can make an additional combat maneuver at a -2 to all your maneuvers. Can I make one to Grapple and one to Pin in the same round?

Linkify that for you.

However I believe that it was ruled as yes with table variance. I Dont have the time to find the link on the ruling but I will get on it later
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No.

A grapple attempt is normally a standard action.

Flurry of Maneuvers is part of a full attack action, that allows you to make a combat maneuver (even a grapple which is normally a standard action).

So, in order to use FoM you must full attack, that is make attack rolls with weapon or fists or something and then you can get the free maneuver. But having done so, you don't have other actions to make another grapple check.

Edit: At level 8 when you get the ability to make 2nd combat maneuver as part of your FoM you would be able to grapple and pin in one round.

However, you could also just pick up Improved Grapple and Greater Grapple and accomplish the same basic thing while picking up the superior Tetori Monk archetype if you want to focus on grappling.
Scarab Sages

If you had the grab ability, you could make a full attack and then make your free action grapple as part of the grab, and then make a grapple to pin as part of the flurry of maneuvers.

Getting the grab ability is much harder now that final embrace was changed to racial constrict only though.

You could get a weapon with the Grapple ability,and then any time you crit you get a free grapple attempt, and then use your Flurry of Maneuvers to Pin.

Unfortunately, the only weapons that have the Grapple property threaten to crit only on a 20... so getting keen/improved critical only does so much...
Scarab Sages

The grapple weapon property doesn't work, you can only move or damage the target while maintaining the grapple the weapon provides, you can't pin.

Also, flagged to be moved to the rules forums.
Imbicatus wrote:
The grapple weapon property doesn't work, you can only move or damage the target while maintaining the grapple the weapon provides, you can't pin.

Well... That is moronic. Thank you for letting me know the rules text - as it is important to know such things... but sheesh... that rule makes zero sense...

Over half of the grapple weapons available have a rope or chain attached to them that is just BEGGING to be used as part of a tie up action.

So it is possible. But he loses his flurry of unarmed strikes, which is kind of a bummer. Thanks for the help.
Imbicatus wrote:

If you had the grab ability, you could make a full attack and then make your free action grapple as part of the grab, and then make a grapple to pin as part of the flurry of maneuvers.

Getting the grab ability is much harder now that final embrace was changed to racial constrict only though.

Not so hard to get the Grab Ability. With 2 levels in Alchemist, you can grow a Tentacle, and Bob's-your-uncle, you have the Grab Ability.

White Haired Witches' White Hair, sort of have the Grab Ability, and you only need 1 level in WHW to get that.
Wise Old Man wrote:
So it is possible. But he loses his flurry of unarmed strikes, which is kind of a bummer. Thanks for the help.

I think you may have misunderstood but I'm not sure.

It is possible to grapple and pin (along with making all of your normally allowed attack rolls based on BAB because the Maneuver Master loses Flurry of Blows) at 8th level using Flurry of Maneuvers because it allows you to perform to combat maneuvers for free, even if they are normally a standard action like grapple.

It is also possible with the right setup to do the same with a tetori monk, using improved grapple, greater grapple, and can be even better with rapid grapple.

It does require you to be adjacent to the enemy at the start of your turn in order to do as a tetori. However, since flurry of maneuvers is a full round action it also would require you to be aqdjacent, as you would otherwise need to spend a move action to get to the enemy (and be unable to do a full round action).
Scarab Sages
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Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:

If you had the grab ability, you could make a full attack and then make your free action grapple as part of the grab, and then make a grapple to pin as part of the flurry of maneuvers.

Getting the grab ability is much harder now that final embrace was changed to racial constrict only though.

Not so hard to get the Grab Ability. With 2 levels in Alchemist, you can grow a Tentacle, and Bob's-your-uncle, you have the Grab Ability.

White Haired Witches' White Hair, sort of have the Grab Ability, and you only need 1 level in WHW to get that.

Let me rephrase: getting the grab ability without looking like some kind of deformed mutant is much harder.

I'm really surprised all these multi-armed and tentacled alchemists aren't attacked on sight as monsters.

We can get this at level 2. Here's the process:

Lv.1 Human Maneuver Master Monk
Feats: Imp. Grapple, Imp. Trip, Ki Throw

Lv.2 Fighter
Bonus Feat: Binding Throw

At this point, your full attack consists of 1 attack and 1 maneuver. However, you can substitute a Trip maneuver for that attack. When you successfully trip, you can initiate a grapple as a swift action. Since you've still got the additional maneuver from Flurry of maneuvers, you can make another grapple check (with the +4 from the enemy being prone)
Silver Crusade
Imbicatus wrote:

Let me rephrase: getting the grab ability without looking like some kind of deformed mutant is much harder.

I'm really surprised all these multi-armed and tentacled alchemists aren't attacked on sight as monsters.

Lol Imbicatus.

To answer the original question, "can a maneuver master grapple and pin in the same round?"

As Claxon indicated, you can perform two grapple maneuvers in a round as of level 8 as a full round/attack action.

Alternatively, you could try a Boar Ferocity (piercing unarmed damage) and hamatula strike (immediate grapple check upon hit with piercing weapon). But with a BAB +7 requirement, won't come online until level 10 as a pure monk. Unfortunately archetypes don't work for the unchained monk in PFS which is full BAB. (not sure if there's any restrictions in regular PF)

Several other nice suggestions out there for level dips.

Thank you for the clarification, Claxon

Lol, Imbicatus

Cool combo, galahad2112 and Validorn

Sorry, coming back on one more clarification from what Imbicatus indicated about the Grab ability...Is it also possible to use the Grab ability from WHW to pin with the Greater Grapple feat in one round?
Imbicatus wrote:
Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:

If you had the grab ability, you could make a full attack and then make your free action grapple as part of the grab, and then make a grapple to pin as part of the flurry of maneuvers.

Getting the grab ability is much harder now that final embrace was changed to racial constrict only though.

Not so hard to get the Grab Ability. With 2 levels in Alchemist, you can grow a Tentacle, and Bob's-your-uncle, you have the Grab Ability.

White Haired Witches' White Hair, sort of have the Grab Ability, and you only need 1 level in WHW to get that.

Let me rephrase: getting the grab ability without looking like some kind of deformed mutant is much harder.

I'm really surprised all these multi-armed and tentacled alchemists aren't attacked on sight as monsters.

Looking weird might be a problem, but Disguise Self is an easy fix. Anyway White Haired Witches don't look all that weird necessarily.

Wise Old Man wrote:
Sorry, coming back on one more clarification from what Imbicatus indicated about the Grab ability...Is it also possible to use the Grab ability from WHW to pin with the Greater Grapple feat in one round?

Yeah, pretty much. If you had Greater Grapple, though, and your goal is to Pin and then maybe Tie Up your opponent, then you should probably follow Claxon's advice and just Initiate a Grapple as a Standard Action then Pin as a Move Action. Doing it your way requires 3 successful Attack Rolls, where doing it Claxon's way only requires 2.

But, if you were say a level 2 character: level 1 White Haired Witch and level 1 Maneuver Master Monk, then you could use the White Hair melee attack, then use Flurry of Maneuvers to Pin your opponent. You can't get Greater Grapple before level 6, since it requires a +6 BAB. Carrying this to it's ridiculous conclusion, this build cries out for 2 levels in Cavalier, Order of the Penitent, which would allow you to Tie Up your opponent you have Grappled; you don't have to Pin him first, and you don't take the -10. Then you can make a melee attack with your 'Hair, Initiate a Grapple as a Free Action, then use Flurry of Maneuvers to Tie Up your Opponent as a Move Action. The build might look something like this

1Level: Cavalier
2C1Monk1: Flurry of Maneuvers, Improved Grapple
3C1M1Witch1: White Hair
4C2M1W1: Expert Captor

Well, if that's the case, then I could be a 6th level Maneuver Master or Tetori Monk with Greater Grapple and just dip 1 level into White-haired Witch and get my Grab ability and the Throat Slicer feat. That way, I could just pin with my free action Grab ability and Coup de Grace as a standard action. Right?
Wise Old Man wrote:
Well, if that's the case, then I could be a 6th level Maneuver Master or Tetori Monk with Greater Grapple and just dip 1 level into White-haired Witch and get my Grab ability and the Throat Slicer feat. That way, I could just pin with my free action Grab ability and Coup de Grace as a standard action. Right?

You would be Coup-de-Gracing the next round, but yes.

Why the next round, if you don't mind me asking?

This is what I was thinking:

You attack with the hair, Standard Action.
You Initiate a Grapple as a Free Action.
You Use Greater Grapple to Pin as a Move Action.

Next round, you Coup de Grace as a Standard Action.

White Hair doesn't have a restriction that an attack with the Grab Ability has. Grab lets you START a Grapple as a Free Action, but White Hair lets you "attempt to grapple," Meaning that if you got multiple attacks, you might make multiple grapple attempts, including advancing the Grapple with the Hair. Natural Attacks don't get Iteratives, but say your White Haired Witch were wearing a Tentacle Cloak. You score a hit with 1 of your Tentacles and Initiate a Grapple as a Free Action, then you made a White Hair Attack and could then Pin your opponent. Then you could use Flurry of Maneuvers to Damage or Tie Up your opponent.

If instead of taking Throat Slicer, you took Pinning Knockout, you could start doing double damage that same round, although you could only do nonlethal damage that way. This would stack with the Strangler and Sap Adept feats. Could be interesting.

Looks like it is possible, in a way

Yes, you could do it with Snapping Turtle Style Feats. You might also be able to do it with some combination of Snake Fang, Feral Combat Training, and the White Hair or a Tentacle. If just prior to the start of your round you were attacked, then you could achieve a Grapple as part of your attack of opportunity. Then you can use your Move Action to Pin, then your Standard Action to Coup de Grace.

If you can finesse an attack of opportunity out of your opponent as a Swift or Free Action, then you can use that tactic all in your turn.

If you achieve your Grapple with the 'Hair, you are not Grappled yourself, and you can still make Attacks of Opportunity, So, if you had 'Hair and 'Turtle, you might achieve a Grapple and Pin out-of-turn via AoOs, then Coup de Grace when it's your turn.

Actually, Great Cleave used in conjunction with White Hair is insane: With White Hair, there is no limit as to how many opponents you can have Grappled, and when you are Grappling people with your hair, you are not Grappled, yourself. In other words, you could use Great Cleave and your White Hair to Grapple every creature adjacent to you! If you are wearing Armor Spikes, you get an extra 1d6 + Bonuses with each of those hits. If you take another level in 'Witch, you gain Constrict. So, we are looking at 1d4+bonuses + 1d4+bonuses + 1d6, and all of your opponents gain the Grappled Condition, and you don't. That's pretty good.

If you then take 2 levels in Cavalier, Order of the Penitent, you can then use Great Cleave again and Tie Up all those creatures you have Grappled!

When you are fighting 1 creature, especially one with DR, you just Grapple as a Standard Action then Tie Up as a Move Action. And again, it's not that hard to get your grapple mod up to +50 by level 9. You're still vulnerable to Incorporeal Creatures and Freedom of Movement. But that still sounds like a pretty powerful character, especially in PFS where the GM can't fill his world with creatures that all have FoM, which is what other GMs would do.
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