You probably can't if your dm thinks it is overpowered. There's not much you can do about it. You'll just have to manage with the summon monster series. Not nearly as potent but no lack of power regardless.
Planar Binding is a very powerful spell. Full stop. There's not really a whole lot of room between "will wreck everything" and "is not available" without basically writing a different spell that just happens to share the name.
Not a rules question - advice or houserules, maybe? flagged.
Without knowing what aspect is overpowered it's hard to provide constructive advice. A large amount of the power is already in the GMs hands to grant bonuses to saves or auto save certain requests.
Strict time limits, increased costs, limiting the spells that a summoned creature will use are all options, but may not address the specific concerns of your GM.
It may not be a power issue at all. They are complex spells and you GM may not want the hassle.
Talk to you GM and ask him the same question.
The wording of the spells are overpowered, so we are looking for some restrictions. In fact, i'm looking to replace our gone cleric with an angel or else to helped us with divine spells.
And a Summon spell is capable of doing that. Summon a bunch of little guys who can cast cure wounds to heal. Check the higher levels ones for utility spells, etc.
Simple way to keep it in check: have it only work to conjure specific creatures and their identities being a highly sought secret knowledge that needs to be actually acquired in-game giving your GM control over what specific creatures you can call.
Also, he could keep track of your previous dealings with each of the entities you know how to call, which could translate into penalty to opposed Charisma checks to compel them into binding if treated badly, abused, or simply not compensated sufficiently for their effort.
Perhaps put a restriction similar to planar ally so that you have to pay them? I can't really think of too many ways to keep the power level in line apart from that but it's always important to remember that when using that spell, you're playing with fire. Creatures you call are not summoned creatures and can permanently die and can't be resurrected save for a limited a wish at the very least. Because of this, many outsiders loathe being called and more malevolent ones may try to take revenge or find loopholes in your agreement to run free on the material plane.
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Perhaps put a restriction similar to planar ally so that you have to pay them? I can't really think of too many ways to keep the power level in line apart from that but it's always important to remember that when using that spell, you're playing with fire. Creatures you call are not summoned creatures and can permanently die and can't be resurrected save for a limited a wish at the very least. Because of this, many outsiders loathe being called and more malevolent ones may try to take revenge or find loopholes in your agreement to run free on the material plane.
Maybe this is just something from the novels i have read but i thought Outsiders (except for native outsiders) when killed on another plane besides their own, are just merely sent back to their plane. Unless certain spells or items are used to permanently kill them.
Maybe this is just something from the novels i have read but i thought Outsiders (except for native outsiders) when killed on another plane besides their own, are just merely sent back to their plane. Unless certain spells or items are used to permanently kill them.
I think that was a 3.5 thing. It's not Pathfinder. And some of the novels, like the Redemption Engine, definitely assume that outsiders killed on another plane are dead. If it were any other way you'd always want to be at war with your planar enemies on their turf, because angels/archons killed in Hell would just respawn in Heaven, while devils would be dead for good.
You can have especially powerful outsiders using Astral Projection, so they at last wouldn't die. The better designed demon lords have this as a power, and the rest could buy it as a scroll for special missions.
Maybe this is just something from the novels i have read but i thought Outsiders (except for native outsiders) when killed on another plane besides their own, are just merely sent back to their plane. Unless certain spells or items are used to permanently kill them.I think that was a 3.5 thing. It's not Pathfinder. And some of the novels, like the Redemption Engine, definitely assume that outsiders killed on another plane are dead. If it were any other way you'd always want to be at war with your planar enemies on their turf, because angels/archons killed in Hell would just respawn in Heaven, while devils would be dead for good.
You can have especially powerful outsiders using Astral Projection, so they at last wouldn't die. The better designed demon lords have this as a power, and the rest could buy it as a scroll for special missions.
Incorrect, it depends on the spell. Take a look at the Conjuration School and compare Summoning and Calling.
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Not a rules question - advice or houserules, maybe? flagged.
Without knowing what aspect is overpowered it's hard to provide constructive advice. A large amount of the power is already in the GMs hands to grant bonuses to saves or auto save certain requests.
Strict time limits, increased costs, limiting the spells that a summoned creature will use are all options, but may not address the specific concerns of your GM.
It may not be a power issue at all. They are complex spells and you GM may not want the hassle.
Talk to you GM and ask him the same question.
As the wording of Planar binding is very interpretative, I believe that subject belong to the rules section!
If the creature does not break free of the trap, you can keep it bound for as long as you dare. You can attempt to compel the creature to perform a service by describing the service and perhaps offering some sort of reward. You make a Charisma check opposed by the creature's Charisma check. The check is assigned a bonus of +0 to +6 based on the nature of the service and the reward. If the creature wins the opposed check, it refuses service. New offers, bribes, and the like can be made or the old ones reoffered every 24 hours. This process can be repeated until the creature promises to serve, until it breaks free, or until you decide to get rid of it by means of some other spell. Impossible demands or unreasonable commands are never agreed to. If you ever roll a natural 1 on the Charisma check, the creature breaks free of the spell's effect and can escape or attack you.
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First, make it only one outsider at a time from any and all uses of this spell. This prevents you getting a small swarm of outsiders to help you and taking up too much time on your turn in combat.
Second, bargaining with the creature is a one-time affair. If the PC doesn't present a bargain and convince the outsider to accept said deal within one day of its summoning and entrapment, the creature gets to go free with no penalty to the summoner. The rest of the party is allowed to aid another on the Charisma check, but with a scaling DC (10 for the first person -> 15 for the second - > 20 for the third). The outsider may be more inclined to listen to and interact with other party members at times as well, if their nature is more in tune with its. This lets the entire party get involved and prevents the "I can just keep this thing captive and keep asking it for help every single darned day" scenario.
Third, make payment of some kind to the creature mandatory. And I don't mean handing it a couple thousand gold pieces worth in assorted gems or coin. Let your GM get creative, something like a non-removable penalty to an ability score, or a sacrifice of some of your daily spell slots, or a spell-blight. Also, alignment repercussions, your GM can have fun with that. Once the creature is gone, your natural mental, moral, and physical state gradually reasserts itself. Make sure all of this is in keeping with the thematic nature of the being you summoned. In essence, you're giving the creature a portion of your power and/or vitality both in way of payment for its service and to guarantee its fidelity to the agreed upon task. This way, there's both a roleplaying and mechanical trade-off for the extra power you're gaining through your temporary 'servant'.
Fourth, make the potential list of things this outsider will do for you restricted to its nature. No getting archons to kill someone in cold blood while they sleep, for example. They will gladly, however, guard a location or lead soldiers in battle. No getting demons to lead supply caravans or repair a busted dam, but they will gladly serve as murderous shock troops or scare the bejeezus out of some fort full of soldiers. You can always use elementals for a task and not worry about restrictions based on their nature, since they have neither much stake or interest in mortal affairs and are generally far less powerful and versatile than denizens of the Outer Planes. This prevents summoning whatever you want to do anything you want unless you're willing to go with a less potent outsider.
Fifth and finally, make these creatures behave appropriately both here and at home. For example, say you want an object stolen from a hellknight citadel. Unless you're REALLY specific on the details of the assignment (giving the creature a bonus on the oppposed Cha check), they might do something else along the way. An angel might destroy an altar to Asmodeus it finds there, causing the hellknights to search for the perpetrator with heightened ferocity in the surrounding lands. A demon, on the other hand, might kill an entire platoon of the enemy before telling the survivors just who sent him and where to find you. When you release the creature back to their plane of origin, they also spread word about you to their fellows, so that repeated castings of planar binding get creatures who know how to deal with you. They come prepared to deal with prior allowable requests, but are harder to convince to do new things. This way, the summoner has to account for potentially troublesome 'developements' in their otherwise perfect 'send-my-servant-to-do-my-job' plan and finds that they have to deal with the reputation they're building among the denizens of the outsider realms.
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I very like your answer Cerberus! How can I bind you?
Oh, I'm easy to please. I like pizza, video games, and souls. If you can find a package involving all three, I'm in.
Perhaps put a restriction similar to planar ally so that you have to pay them? I can't really think of too many ways to keep the power level in line apart from that but it's always important to remember that when using that spell, you're playing with fire. Creatures you call are not summoned creatures and can permanently die and can't be resurrected save for a limited a wish at the very least. Because of this, many outsiders loathe being called and more malevolent ones may try to take revenge or find loopholes in your agreement to run free on the material plane.Maybe this is just something from the novels i have read but i thought Outsiders (except for native outsiders) when killed on another plane besides their own, are just merely sent back to their plane. Unless certain spells or items are used to permanently kill them.
Nope, they get permanently killed. That's why they won't do anything suicidal when called and also why pretty much every creature loathes being called. The Player Companion: Monster Summoner's Handbook explicitly points out the difference between a "summoned" and "called" creature. "Called creatures don't just return to their home planes when reduced to 0 hit points, meaning they can die."
Perhaps put a restriction similar to planar ally so that you have to pay them? I can't really think of too many ways to keep the power level in line apart from that but it's always important to remember that when using that spell, you're playing with fire. Creatures you call are not summoned creatures and can permanently die and can't be resurrected save for a limited a wish at the very least. Because of this, many outsiders loathe being called and more malevolent ones may try to take revenge or find loopholes in your agreement to run free on the material plane.Maybe this is just something from the novels i have read but i thought Outsiders (except for native outsiders) when killed on another plane besides their own, are just merely sent back to their plane. Unless certain spells or items are used to permanently kill them.Nope, they get permanently killed. That's why they won't do anything suicidal when called and also why pretty much every creature loathes being called. The Player Companion: Monster Summoner's Handbook explicitly points out the difference between a "summoned" and "called" creature. "Called creatures don't just return to their home planes when reduced to 0 hit points, meaning they can die."
Those are a rehash of what is in the CRB, as I pointed out several posts above.
Those are a rehash of what is in the CRB, as I pointed out several posts above.Perhaps put a restriction similar to planar ally so that you have to pay them? I can't really think of too many ways to keep the power level in line apart from that but it's always important to remember that when using that spell, you're playing with fire. Creatures you call are not summoned creatures and can permanently die and can't be resurrected save for a limited a wish at the very least. Because of this, many outsiders loathe being called and more malevolent ones may try to take revenge or find loopholes in your agreement to run free on the material plane.Maybe this is just something from the novels i have read but i thought Outsiders (except for native outsiders) when killed on another plane besides their own, are just merely sent back to their plane. Unless certain spells or items are used to permanently kill them.Nope, they get permanently killed. That's why they won't do anything suicidal when called and also why pretty much every creature loathes being called. The Player Companion: Monster Summoner's Handbook explicitly points out the difference between a "summoned" and "called" creature. "Called creatures don't just return to their home planes when reduced to 0 hit points, meaning they can die."
Really? I've never come across that in the core rulebook. The only thing I've seen there is referring to them as "called" rather than summoned and even then that's more an implication than anything since it never outlines what a "called" creature is. It is possible that paizo were relying on people using some 3.5 rules to fill in the gaps when they wrote the core rulebook though.
Really? I've never come across that in the core rulebook. The only thing I've seen there is referring to them as "called" rather than summoned and even then that's more an implication than anything since it never outlines what a "called" creature is. It is possible that paizo were relying on people using some 3.5 rules to fill in the gaps when they wrote the core rulebook though.Those are a rehash of what is in the CRB, as I pointed out several posts above.Perhaps put a restriction similar to planar ally so that you have to pay them? I can't really think of too many ways to keep the power level in line apart from that but it's always important to remember that when using that spell, you're playing with fire. Creatures you call are not summoned creatures and can permanently die and can't be resurrected save for a limited a wish at the very least. Because of this, many outsiders loathe being called and more malevolent ones may try to take revenge or find loopholes in your agreement to run free on the material plane.Maybe this is just something from the novels i have read but i thought Outsiders (except for native outsiders) when killed on another plane besides their own, are just merely sent back to their plane. Unless certain spells or items are used to permanently kill them.Nope, they get permanently killed. That's why they won't do anything suicidal when called and also why pretty much every creature loathes being called. The Player Companion: Monster Summoner's Handbook explicitly points out the difference between a "summoned" and "called" creature. "Called creatures don't just return to their home planes when reduced to 0 hit points, meaning they can die."
You didn't look hard enough ;)
Again as I posted, Conjuration School, there is Calling and Summoning Subschools.
Perhaps put a restriction similar to planar ally so that you have to pay them? I can't really think of too many ways to keep the power level in line apart from that but it's always important to remember that when using that spell, you're playing with fire. Creatures you call are not summoned creatures and can permanently die and can't be resurrected save for a limited a wish at the very least. Because of this, many outsiders loathe being called and more malevolent ones may try to take revenge or find loopholes in your agreement to run free on the material plane.Maybe this is just something from the novels i have read but i thought Outsiders (except for native outsiders) when killed on another plane besides their own, are just merely sent back to their plane. Unless certain spells or items are used to permanently kill them.
I won't repeat what the others said, but I will add that outsiders are immortal -- they don't age and can potentially live for many thousands of years. When they die, their essence merges with the ambient energies of whatever plane they're in and they're essentially gone for good. That's why outsiders feel uncomfortable going to strange planes -- they don't have an afterlife if they die.
Native outsiders work a little differently because, unlike true outsiders, they have a mortal coil. When a native outsider dies, they go to an afterlife like any mortal does.
Native outsiders work a little differently because, unlike true outsiders, they have a mortal coil. When a native outsider dies, they go to an afterlife like any mortal does.
Yet native outsiders can still be called provided the spellcaster is on another plane. A tiefling or aasimar having his wizard friend call him to another plane could make an interesting guerilla tactic.
Native outsiders work a little differently because, unlike true outsiders, they have a mortal coil. When a native outsider dies, they go to an afterlife like any mortal does.Yet native outsiders can still be called provided the spellcaster is on another plane. A tiefling or aasimar having his wizard friend call him to another plane could make an interesting guerilla tactic.
But Calling spells are the ones that leave you open to death, might as well travel together.