So I'm looking to create an optimal list of spells for my character. Help would be greatly appreciated. Please use the following format:
Level 1 - 5 spells
Level 2 - 5 spells
Level 3 - 4 spells
Level 4 - 4 spells
Level 5 - 4 spells
Level 6 - 3 spells
Level 7 - 3 spells
Level 8 - 3 spells
Level 9 - 3 spells
My character is a Human Sorcerer with the (Gold) Draconic bloodline and 4 levels in Dragon Disciple to get an incredible amount of Strength. He mainly fights with his claws and bite attacks. So some Strength/Damage buffing spells are mandatory, but I would like some offensive (probably fire spells) too. I'm thinking about Bull's Strength for low levels, as well as Monstrous Physique and Haste to pull off an extra natural attack each turn. I rolled poorly for my HP so False Life might be good as well. Scorching Ray and Fire Ball for damage from a distance?
Thanks in advance for any helpful comments!
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Not a complete list, just my suggestions:
1: Shield, Mage Armor, Magic Missile (1)
2: Glitterdust, See Invisibility, Mirror Image, False Life
3: Fireball, Dispel Magic, Vampiric touch
4: Incsibility, Greater
9: Mage's Disjunction
(1) While Magic Missile is not a very good damage spell at your level, it is useful for probing spell resistance and the Shield spell.
i would toss in Magic Aura, since you never know when you might need to conceal your magic sword or that protection from evil you cast just before entering Baron Von Evyl's manor
So I'm looking to create an optimal list of spells for my character. Help would be greatly appreciated. Please use the following format:
Level 1 - 5 spells
Level 2 - 5 spells
Level 3 - 4 spells
Level 4 - 4 spells
Level 5 - 4 spells
Level 6 - 3 spells
Level 7 - 3 spells
Level 8 - 3 spells
Level 9 - 3 spellsMy character is a Human Sorcerer with the (Gold) Draconic bloodline and 4 levels in Dragon Disciple to get an incredible amount of Strength. He mainly fights with his claws and bite attacks. So some Strength/Damage buffing spells are mandatory, but I would like some offensive (probably fire spells) too. I'm thinking about Bull's Strength for low levels, as well as Monstrous Physique and Haste to pull off an extra natural attack each turn. I rolled poorly for my HP so False Life might be good as well. Scorching Ray and Fire Ball for damage from a distance?
Thanks in advance for any helpful comments!
This is a hard question because a perfect spell list is relative to your level, especially for a spontaneous caster. For example, what's strong at level 4-5 won't necessarily be as strong or something you'll want on your spell list by 10-11. You'll probably end up swapping things on and off.
We also need to know more about two things: your feats and your party composition. What spells are useful to you are going to depend a lot on what you're doing to augment them with your feats (metamagic or not, focusing on a school or not, packing spell penetration or not... ) and how many other party members can you impact while buffing yourself.
My feats so far are mainly melee oriented: Power Attack, the Cleave chain, Furious Focus and Eldritch Heritage to get the Strength bonus from the Abyssal bloodline. The party outside of me consists of a Fighter, a Summoner Synthesist, a Ninja and an Investigator. Thanks for even reading this far!
Not a complete list, just my suggestions:
1: Shield, Mage Armor, Magic Missile (1)
2: Glitterdust, See Invisibility, Mirror Image, False Life
3: Fireball, Dispel Magic, Vampiric touch
4: Incsibility, Greater
9: Mage's Disjunction(1) While Magic Missile is not a very good damage spell at your level, it is useful for probing spell resistance and the Shield spell.
Allright, they will be taken in account. No scorching ray? It seems like a solid spell for raw damage. Thanks for replying!
I am playing a (Copper) Draconic Sorcerer in a campaign made by a friend.
We used rolled stats and I got all 14s and one 17, so my Strength score is somewhat lacking, hence I will not be going the mad Strength route, focusing more on spells: I basically got three plans:
Plan A: Cast enchantment spells and be dragony
Plan B: Cast damaging acidic spells
Plan C: Polymorph and eat people
The list I have decided on looks something like this, but includes some flavour options. Most notably, it is lacking Imp. Invis (cheesy and lame), Fireball (Acid rules), all necromancy (yucky for a good Dragon, enervation is awesome though). Since I am playing a "Paragon of Multiple Heritages"(Elf, Human, Wizard and Dragon), I can nick most anything with Paragon Surge once a day, so that also influenced my choices.
In your case I'd swap in most Monstrous Physique spells, Bull's Strength and probably some more defensive spells (Displacement, but possibly also shield at low level, as Mage Armour does not come online till 3rd level). I am having massive fun running around with 12 AC at level 1-2 so far :)
1:
Color Spray (1st level, DC 15)
Vanish (1st level)
Mage Armour (3rd level Draconic Spell)
Grease (3rd level)
Enlarge Person (4th level bonus)
Charm Person (5thth level bonus)
Corrosive Touch (5th level)
Touch of Gracelessness (7th level)
2:
Levitate (4th level) (change to Hideous Laughter at 8th level)
Acid Arrow (5th level)
Resist Energy (5th level Draconic Spell)
Alter Self (6th level bonus)
Protection from Arrows (7th level bonus)
Mirror Image (7th level)
Eagle's Splendor (9th level)
Glitterdust(11th level)
3:
Paragon Surge (6th)
Suggestion (7th)
Fly (7th level Draconic)
Stinking Cloud (8th level bonus)
Dispel Magic (9th)
Haste (9th level bonus)
Slow (11th)
Magic Weapon, Greater (13th)
4: 8-9- 9 (draconic) – 10 (FC) 11 - 11 (FC)- 13
Black Tentacles (8th level)
Monstrous Physique II (9th level)
Fear (9th level Draconic)
Dimension Door (10th level Bonus)
Confusion (11th level)
Acid Pit (11th level Bonus)
Dimensional Anchor (13th level)
Terrible Remorse
5: 10 – 11 – 11 (Draconic) – 12 (FC) – 13 – 13 (FC) – 15
Dominate Person (10th level)
Spell Resistance (11th level Draconic)
Acid Spray (11th level)
Mind Fog (12th level bonus)
Baleful Polymorph (13th level)
Fickle Winds (13th bonus)
Icy Prison(15th level)
Wall of Stone,Teleport, Overland Flight
6: 12 – 13 – 13 (Draconic) – 14 (FC) – 15 – 15 (FC)
True Seeing (12th level)
Transformation (13th level)
Form of the Dragon I (13th level Draconic)
Dispel Magic, Greater (14th level bonus)
Disintegrate (15th level)
Legend Lore (15th level Bonus)
Mass Suggestion, Contingency as options
7: 14 – 15 – 15 (draconic) – 16 (FC) – 17 – 17 (FC)
Spell Turning (14th level)
Prismatic Spray (15th level)
Form of the Dragon II (15th level Draconic)
Plane Shift (17th level)
Reverse Gravity (17th level bonus)
8: 16 – 17 – 17 (Draconic) – 18 (FC) – 19 – 19 (FC) – 20 (FC)
Maze (16th level)
Prismatic Wall (17th level)
Form of the Dragon III (17th level Draconic)
Moment of Prescience (18th level Bonus)
Demand (19th level Bonus)
Protection from Spells (19th level)
Polymorph Any Object (20th level Bonus)
9: 18 – 19 – 19 (Draconic) – 19 (expand Arcana) - 20
Mage's Disjunction (18th level)
Wish (19th level Draconic)
Overwhelming Presence (19th level)
Time Stop (19th level Expanded Arcana)
Shapechange (20th level)
I am playing a (Copper) Draconic Sorcerer in a campaign made by a friend.
We used rolled stats and I got all 14s and one 17, so my Strength score is somewhat lacking, hence I will not be going the mad Strength route, focusing more on spells: I basically got three plans:
Plan A: Cast enchantment spells and be dragony
Plan B: Cast damaging acidic spells
Plan C: Polymorph and eat people
The list I have decided on looks something like this, but includes some flavour options. Most notably, it is lacking Imp. Invis (cheesy and lame), Fireball (Acid rules), all necromancy (yucky for a good Dragon, enervation is awesome though). Since I am playing a "Paragon of Multiple Heritages"(Elf, Human, Wizard and Dragon), I can nick most anything with Paragon Surge once a day, so that also influenced my choices.
In your case I'd swap in most Monstrous Physique spells, Bull's Strength and probably some more defensive spells (Displacement, but possibly also shield at low level, as Mage Armour does not come online till 3rd level). I am having massive fun running around with 12 AC at level 1-2 so far :)
1:
Color Spray (1st level, DC 15)
Vanish (1st level)
Mage Armour (3rd level Draconic Spell)
Grease (3rd level)
Enlarge Person (4th level bonus)
Charm Person (5thth level bonus)
Corrosive Touch (5th level)
Touch of Gracelessness (7th level)2:
Levitate (4th level) (change to Hideous Laughter at 8th level)
Acid Arrow (5th level)
Resist Energy (5th level Draconic Spell)
Alter Self (6th level bonus)
Protection from Arrows (7th level bonus)
Mirror Image (7th level)
Eagle's Splendor (9th level)
Glitterdust(11th level)3:
Paragon Surge (6th)
Suggestion (7th)
Fly (7th level Draconic)
Stinking Cloud (8th level bonus)
Dispel Magic (9th)
Haste (9th level bonus)
Slow (11th)
Magic Weapon, Greater (13th)4: 8-9- 9 (draconic) – 10 (FC) 11 - 11 (FC)- 13
Black Tentacles (8th level)
Monstrous Physique II (9th level)
Fear (9th level Draconic)
Dimension Door (10th level Bonus)...
Damn, very nice. That's a really cool list and explanation. But I'm afraid I can't change my dragon type or race anymore since we're already kinda deep in the story. I was kind of hoping for a list personalized for my situation. Still, thanks a lot for taking the time to respond!
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So I'm looking to create an optimal list of spells for my character. Help would be greatly appreciated. Please use the following format:
Level 1 - 5 spells
Level 2 - 5 spells
Level 3 - 4 spells
Level 4 - 4 spells
Level 5 - 4 spells
Level 6 - 3 spells
Level 7 - 3 spells
Level 8 - 3 spells
Level 9 - 3 spellsMy character is a Human Sorcerer with the (Gold) Draconic bloodline and 4 levels in Dragon Disciple to get an incredible amount of Strength. He mainly fights with his claws and bite attacks. So some Strength/Damage buffing spells are mandatory, but I would like some offensive (probably fire spells) too. I'm thinking about Bull's Strength for low levels, as well as Monstrous Physique and Haste to pull off an extra natural attack each turn. I rolled poorly for my HP so False Life might be good as well. Scorching Ray and Fire Ball for damage from a distance?
Thanks in advance for any helpful comments!
If you rolled poorly on health then I suggest going to 8 levels of Dragon Disciple. For a few reasons of Course.
1. D12 HD
2. +2 to con
3. Form of the dragon I 1/day as a SLA
4. Blind-sense is actually pretty good for targeting Invisible foes.
5. More Natural armor
6. +2 Int (enjoy more skills and Better Spellcraft/Knowledge checks)
7. 2 More feats. Feats like toughness and Great Fortitude can help you stay alive...and it is on the dragon bloodline of feats. The Bloodline feats for Draconic is actually pretty solid.
Luckily Most the good Melee buffs you want are 6th level and lower. ALso Since your focusing on melee potential you probably have a lower cha around 19-22ish. At least that is the assumption I am making...please correct me if I am wrong. Thinking that way save Based spells will not be in your best interest.
1: Mage Armor*, Magic Missile, Shield, Blood Money, True Strike, Ray of Enfeeblement
2: Resist Energy*, Glitterdust, See Invisibility, Mirror Image, False Life, Protection from Evil Communal
3: Fly*, Fireball, Dispel Magic, Vampiric touch, Haste,
4: Fear*, Greater Magic Weapon, Enervation, Black Tentacles, Dimensional Anchor
5: Spell Resistance*, Stone Skin communal, Wall of Force, Cloud Kill, Teleport
6: FotD I*, Greater Heroism, Sirocco,
7: Fotd II*, Limited Wish, Spell Turning, Waves of Exhaustion
8: FotD III*, Maze, Protection from Spells, Summon monster 8
9: Wish*, Time Stop, Gate, Crushing Hand
Feat/trait wise if you can pick up Magical Knack you can recover those 2 CL loss.
I recommend picking up Quicken Spell as a Feat. Quickened Truestrikes and low level buffs you where caught off guard not having up. Tho most these spells last a good amount of time. Also Quickened Haste is not too shabby.
Gear wise:
You could do a lot with a few simple rods.
Extend and Lesser extend (For all your buffs)
Lesser Toppling (For Magic Missiles.)
Lesser Empower Rod and Normal (This makes your Fireball sting.)
I agree with Fruian, if you aim for melee, take the hit on CL and go DD for 8 levels. Buckets of flavour and the higher HD and the +2 Con really help. Yes, you delay spells, but again, most spells you'll want are below level 6.
Downsides are:
- Only get FotD at 18 (instead of 17)
- Will only get 2 level 9 spells (1 known + Wish), since you won't get level 9 spells till level 20.
- CL -2. Take Magical Knack to circumvent. Consider taking the Additional Traits feat for Magical Knack and Wayang Spellhunter (-1 level on metamagic).
I think the trade-off is absolutely worth it, smacking stuff is fun!
Again, I mostly concur with Fruian, but I'd adjust a couple of spells. Do remember that FC bonus for sorcerer is really good, so I'd forgo +1 hp for HP and grab Toughness and possibly even invest in a belt of Strength AND Con. Additional spells gained from FC you could pick from my earlier list.
1: Mage Armor*, Magic Missile, Shield, Burning Hands, Vanish, Ray of Enfeeblement
2: Resist Energy*, Glitterdust, Alter Self (for Troglodyte form), Mirror Image, False Life, Protection from Arrows
3: Fly*, Fireball, Dispel Magic, Vampiric touch, Haste
4: Fear*, Enervation, Black Tentacles, Dimensional Anchor, Monstrous Physique II (GMW is actually level 3 and not worth it, if you attack mostly with Natural Attacks). Notable mention to Stoneskin.
5: Spell Resistance*, Wall of Stone/Force, Cloud Kill, Teleport, Stoneskin (communal), Monstrous Physique III
6: FotD I*, Greater Heroism, Sirocco (awesome spell), Transformation (Stacks with FotD, if Transformation is cast last)
7: Fotd II*, Limited Wish, Spell Turning, Reverse Gravity
8: FotD III*, Maze, Protection from Spells, Summon monster 8
9: Wish*, Time Stop, Mage's Disjunction, Shapechange
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4: Fear*, Enervation, Black Tentacles, Dimensional Anchor, Monstrous Physique II (GMW is actually level 3 and not worth it, if you attack mostly with Natural Attacks). Notable mention to Stoneskin.
Good catch on GMW...I'm use to playing a Cleric which makes it a 4th level for them.
As a Player I prefer to get a Manufactured weapon I find along the way and use it combined with my Claws/bite. I'd pick up a amulet of mighty fists as your main "Weapon" so when you use Form of the dragon you have enhanced Attacks. Just use what you find for your manufactured weapon. I also like providing the buff to party mates. Too often do I see people going TWF and needing the boost to cover the split in gold for 2 weapons. It also is a great buff cause it's duration and letting a group use it also allows them to make Kick ass Weapons like: +1 Adamantine Spell storing Which you can fill with a Empowered Rod + Vampiric Touch spell. Doing that the night before will net you back the spell the following adventuring day. A team that works together Wins together.
I didn't suggest Monstrous Form Because I figured FotD would be the Prefered Polymorph. And since you can not stack polymorphs it was the only one I mentioned. Tho it is very good adding in many natural attack options, Flight, and a Breath weapon. It gives multiple effects in 1 spell...which I like. So if you do grab both Polymorphs then a manufactured weapon has it's uses even more so.
Dot
1: Mage Armor*, Magic Missile, Shield, Burning Hands, Vanish, Ray of Enfeeblement
2: Resist Energy*, Glitterdust, Alter Self (for Troglodyte form), Mirror Image, False Life, Protection from Arrows
3: Fly*, Fireball, Dispel Magic, Vampiric touch, Haste
4: Fear*, Enervation, Black Tentacles, Dimensional Anchor, Monstrous Physique II (GMW is actually level 3 and not worth it, if you attack mostly with Natural Attacks). Notable mention to Stoneskin.
5: Spell Resistance*, Wall of Stone/Force, Cloud Kill, Teleport, Stoneskin (communal), Monstrous Physique III
6: FotD I*, Greater Heroism, Sirocco (awesome spell), Transformation (Stacks with FotD, if Transformation is cast last)
7: Fotd II*, Limited Wish, Spell Turning, Reverse Gravity
8: FotD III*, Maze, Protection from Spells, Summon monster 8
9: Wish*, Time Stop, Mage's Disjunction, Shapechange
Dayum, this is exactly what I was looking for, it has a perfect balance in buffing and damage. Thanks so much, I'm really grateful!
As a Player I prefer to get a Manufactured weapon I find along the way and use it combined with my Claws/bite. I'd pick up a amulet of mighty fists as your main "Weapon" so when you use Form of the dragon you have enhanced Attacks. Just use what you find for your manufactured weapon. I also like providing the buff to party mates. Too often do I see people going TWF and needing the boost to cover the split in gold for 2 weapons. It also is a great buff cause it's duration and letting a group use it also allows them to make Kick ass Weapons like: +1 Adamantine Spell storing Which you can fill with a Empowered Rod + Vampiric Touch spell. Doing that the night before will net you back the spell the following adventuring day. A team that works together Wins together.
Hahaha, I totally agree with you. I recently found an enchanted longsword (GM won't allow us to buy magic stuff) and I'm totally planning on keeping it. Roleplay wise I also enjoy having a weapon by my side. It's awesome to hear you talk about teams working together like that, I hope my party does that in the future too. Thanks a lot for your help, I really appreciate it!
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Not a problem Mate.
If you want a Group to become that close and work together sometimes you have to be the one to show the way by doing it. Even if it is 1 or 2 buffs of your own passed out.
My current Monday group I've finally talked into a group strategy of:
Everyone chips in for a Lesser Echoing Rod.
Cleric Uses Magic Vestment+ Echoing Rod = Main Meat shields have Up to par Armor
Wizard uses Greater Magic Weapon (Or Keen) + Echoing Rod = Main damage dealers have on par weapons
Wizard Also gets to use Echoing Rod for Fly to get double casting a day. Flight is a very strong tactic. An Archer can win fights solo against some creatures without flight. I've had an Archer destroy several giants just by flying up overhead and raining down arrows.
Main Melee Front liner Gets a Spell storing weapon or Armor...Arcane or Divine fills with touch spells on the off day (Yay extra spell on adventuring day)
I also owe you thanks Fruian.
I made the list in my first post for a full caster Draconic Sorcerer, and in planning my spells known I have focused a LOT on my own tricks, while I should have been on the look-out for things which can benefit my group.
Communal Stoneskin, Greater Magic Weapon and (Greater) Heroism should be on my list just to provide a load of utility beyond what I can contribute offensively.
Only level 2 as of yet, but having great fun casting Vanish on the oracle who can finish his summons without being interrupted.
I just love how versatile you can make a sorcerer, despite the obvious drawbacks compared to a Wizard, without being stuck with only one trick.
A sorcerer does make it really important to plan ahead for the diversity on your list, and take the choices of your party members into account. The Oracle and I are working on a decent division of labour, with me focusing on providing some blasts, some buffs and single target annoyance, and the Oracle being focused on buffs and battlefield control.
What do you reckon for my third level by the way? I have Vanish (defense), Color Spray (Boooooom), Acid Splash (damage) and Daze which I cast now. I will get Mage Armour, but am really wondering about my next spell. Grease is really good, Enlarge Person would benefit my monk, but Corrosive Touch (3d4 +3) is pretty fun in terms of doing more damage than 1d3 +1 :).
Any advice?