OP Builders ASSEMBLE!!!!!


Advice

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Silver Crusade

NewtonPulsifer wrote:

Have the AC be to your left or right a bit, or you'll take soft cover penalties with your reach weapon going through the AC's square.

Does that apply if the AC is small? I know you don't get penalties to your range attacks if the mob your fighting is large. Would that same concept not apply if you are swinging at something that is your size and the thing between you is only coming up to the mobs waist?

Grand Lodge

Lots here to cover....he we go!

Jeremy Coppersmith wrote:
Fruian Thistlefoot wrote:

If your level 3 you should have:

Level 1 feat
Level 2 Outflank
Level 3 Feat
Level 3 Teamwork Feat

Also going to be Honest Precise Strike is not all that great in the scheme of things. +1d6 Precision damage. (Not Multiplied by a critical, Some enemies are immune, Concealment shuts it off) It a very small situational damage boost. Hardly worth it IMO. And unlike the new Unchained Rogue's fix to Sneak attack even partial concealment (20%) messes with it. It is basically treated like a Core Rogues sneak attack.

So the main reason for precise strike is because going raptor. at lv 7 he gets 5 main attacks with pounce. if all of them hit which they should, Im looking at 5d6 more damage on top of everything else. Being able to do a max of 30 more damage in one round is nice. However my thinking is only from a lower level knowledge. I have not gotten past lv 5 in any adventure yet. Also I do not see anywhere where it says concealment voids it out can you source that for me?

Feats that I have at 3: Outflank, Precise strike, Pack Flanking, Combat Expertise (for pack flank and some of the later tw feats)

About the Raptor with 5 attacks. Not all 5 hit...very rarely does it happen. Especially the higher level you go.

About the Concealment Rules and Precision Damage:

The Game does not define Precision Damage well or have any one set of rulings but rather (like mounted combat) its rules are smathered throughout many sources but here are a few things about Precision damage.

James Jacobs (Creative Director) wrote:
Precision damage is, alas, not defined as a term. It's more a descriptive element, which is probably not the best way to handle things in game. But basically, precision damage is limited to sneak attacks and the duelist's extra damage, as far as I can tell.

This was prior to 2013...There have been a few additions to Precision damage. But lets start with the Duelist.

Duelist Precise Strike Ability wrote:
Any creature that is immune to critical hits is also immune to a precise strike, and any item or ability that protects a creature from critical hits also protects a creature from a precise strike.

Taking that into mind lets see what is Straight Immune to Critical hits:

Immune to Critical hits wrote:


Critical Hits

The following creature types (or subtypes) have immunity to critical hits (that is, they do not take any additional damage from critical hits):

Aeon (subtype): "Immunity to cold, poison, and critical hits."
Elemental (subtype): Elementals are "not subject to critical hits or flanking. Does not take additional damage from precision-based attacks, such as sneak attack."
Incorporeal (subtype): "An incorporeal creature is immune to critical hits (unless the attacks are made using a weapon with the ghost touch special weapon quality.)"
Ooze (Type): <Oozes are...> "not subject to critical hits or flanking. Does not take additional damage from precision-based attacks (such as sneak attack.)"
Protean (subtype): (50% chance to ignore, see below*)
Swarm (Type): "A swarm has no clear front or back and no discernible anatomy, so it is not subject to critical hits."

So currently you have 4 types straight Immune.

Rogue Sneak Attack wrote:

Precision-Based Damage (like Sneak Attack)

The following creature types (or subtypes) do not take additional damage from precision-based attacks (such as sneak attack):

Elemental (subtype): "<An elemental...> does not take additional damage from precision-based attacks (such as sneak attack.)"
Incorporeal (subtype): "An incorporeal creature is immune to precision-based damage (such as sneak attack damage) unless the attacks are made using a weapon with the ghost touch special weapon quality."
Ooze (Type): "<An ooze is...> does not take additional damage from precision-based attacks (such as sneak attack.)"
Protean (subtype): (50% chance to ignore, see below*)

Now we have covered both Rogue and Duelist who where the forrunners in Precision Damage. SO now lets look at the newer additions.

Swashbuckler's Precise Strike wrote:
Any creature that is immune to sneak attacks is immune to the additional damage granted by precise strike, and any item or ability that protects a creature from critical hits also protects a creature from the additional damage of a precise strike. This additional damage is precision damage, and isn't multiplied on a critical hit.

And the Investigator

Investigator wrote:

The damage of studied strike is precision damage and is not multiplied on a critical hit; creatures that are immune to sneak attacks are also immune to studied strike.

The investigator must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. An investigator cannot use studied strike against a creature with concealment.

As you can see with Precision damage you have quiet a bit of things that can shut it down. This is one of the big problems with the core rogue. Thank goodness the Unchained came along and did this to Sneak attack.

Unchained Rogue wrote:
The rogue must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. A rogue cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with total concealment.

It changed it to total concealment to help not get Lighting Gibed.

This is where you need to ask your DM if he is using old Sneak attack/precision damage rules or if he is going to use the Unchained version by adding in the word TOTAL. It will make a big difference in your decision of Precise Strike Teamwork feat.

Now lets also examine your though about the Pouncing Raptor....if your Raptor goes first and runs forward to pounce.

(if it acts first in the round) Enemy is flat footed...but Precise Strike requires you MUST be flanking. so your raptor will not get the Precise Strike feat. Only time the feat works if you and someone else with the feat is flanking. (Unless solo tactics...Very good on inquisitor)

So your raptor isn't going to be getting that +5d6 unless you are already flanking when it charges in.

Quote:
Have the AC be to your left or right a bit, or you'll take soft cover penalties with your reach weapon going through the AC's square.

This is good advice and why I like reach on a hunter. If the AC is closer the enemy hopefully will target it over you. Or he will split focus. At least that is the hope.

Quote:
Does that apply if the AC is small? I know you don't get penalties to your range attacks if the mob your fighting is large. Would that same concept not apply if you are swinging at something that is your size and the thing between you is only coming up to the mobs waist?

The goal is a massive AC with Reach. By that point you can afford Enlarge potions on a regular. The longer the reach of the creature the more AoO space you have. The more battlefield you own and control. When you start the AC will be medium but wont have reach so it will be toe-to-toe with the enemy while your just out of reach. This makes the early levels safer.

Silver Crusade

Why is it not written the same in the teamwork feat for precision strike as it would be for precision damage in other sources? Did they just forget or is it meant to be different. All other sources say that Any creature that is immune to critical hits is also immune to a precise strike, and any item or ability that protects a creature from critical hits also protects a creature from a precise strike; but not the actual feat itself. That makes things very confusing and unless you look into it as deep as you did, taking the feat for face value makes it seem that it only doesn't apply to crits.

I would not send my raptor in first. Most likely it would come in after me or the monk. I would be tactful about it.

Also if my AC gets to large or huge how am i supposed to stand behind it to attack? Would be too far away to do that I would think.

Grand Lodge

Quote:
Also if my AC gets to large or huge how am i supposed to stand behind it to attack? Would be too far away to do that I would think.

You will change tactics based on size of the AC. Plus as you level the strong the PC gets too. But if you have Reach weapon+Enlarge potion(or spell from Wizard) you can still figure out spacing to be threatening and leaving room for your AC to come in.

But the bigger the AC the more Str, Bigger damage, More con, and more reach.

You can have a small AC, but remember the bigger the AC and damage it does, the more viable of a target it looks like.


first of all, as hunter you can have as level 2 spell - reduce animal - acting 2\hours \level.
so, grow to large and reduce - adding the big +8 str grow.

the size alter the tactics a lot.
a medium animal will work amazing on a rider (small \ undersized mount) that charge on the flying \ climbing mount.

a large (huge?) mount - open reach and power of dual fighting but also attract a lot of enemy fire power - and at high levels it is risky.

i LOVE the following build:
hunter 4 for team feats share and some spells.
cavalier X.

if taken order of the sword - you get yourself a super str charger - even if mount is medium (after a spell).

if you want to be super tank, take order of the dragon, helpful halfling. your party will admire you.

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