Jeremy Coppersmith's page

Why is it not written the same in the teamwork feat for precision strike as it would be for precision damage in other sources? Did they just forget or is it meant to be different. All other sources say that Any creature that is immune to critical hits is also immune to a precise strike, and any item or ability that protects a creature from critical hits also protects a creature from a precise strike; but not the actual feat itself. That makes things very confusing and unless you look into it as deep as you did, taking the feat for face value makes it seem that it only doesn't apply to crits.

I would not send my raptor in first. Most likely it would come in after me or the monk. I would be tactful about it.

Also if my AC gets to large or huge how am i supposed to stand behind it to attack? Would be too far away to do that I would think.

Have the AC be to your left or right a bit, or you'll take soft cover penalties with your reach weapon going through the AC's square.

Does that apply if the AC is small? I know you don't get penalties to your range attacks if the mob your fighting is large. Would that same concept not apply if you are swinging at something that is your size and the thing between you is only coming up to the mobs waist?

And if you want to talk optimization: Skip Combat Expertise, it doesn't belong in an optimized build (absolutely not in it self and barely ever as a prerequisit).
I would say that Precise Strike is worth it, though Paired Opportunist is probably a bit better, I usally see more AoOs than flanking at my table (they're both one of the better TW-feats anyway and you need to pick one at level 3). That also...

I need to take Combat Expertise for the pack flanking so I can sit behind AC and still get flanking. I thought about power attack but for what little it gives me im already doing alot of damage with teamwork feats.

If your level 3 you should have:

Level 1 feat
Level 2 Outflank
Level 3 Feat
Level 3 Teamwork Feat

Also going to be Honest Precise Strike is not all that great in the scheme of things. +1d6 Precision damage. (Not Multiplied by a critical, Some enemies are immune, Concealment shuts it off) It a very small situational damage boost. Hardly worth it IMO. And unlike the new Unchained Rogue's fix to Sneak attack even partial concealment (20%) messes with it. It is basically treated like a Core Rogues sneak attack.

So the main reason for precise strike is because going raptor. at lv 7 he gets 5 main attacks with pounce. if all of them hit which they should, Im looking at 5d6 more damage on top of everything else. Being able to do a max of 30 more damage in one round is nice. However my thinking is only from a lower level knowledge. I have not gotten past lv 5 in any adventure yet. Also I do not see anywhere where it says concealment voids it out can you source that for me?

Feats that I have at 3: Outflank, Precise strike, Pack Flanking, Combat Expertise (for pack flank and some of the later tw feats)

The only reason im going great axe is because I only start with 2 feats for being fey and so I got outflank for bonus and precision strike and combat expertise for my regular 2.

So the monk doesn't want me to waste a spell on magic fang so I am swapping that out for lead blades and carrying a great axe with me lol. With the team feats in place its going to be crazy lol.

Gone for another day and this thing blew up again. So my group actually got together last Friday (minus the DM) and went over plans for our characters. I decided to go with hunter focusing on teamwork feats. DM approved a lot of stuff. So to address some questions and concerns....

1) We are starting at lv 3 and not building progressively (ie...lv1 going to lv2) so power attack is ok and whatever else might be different then progressive building.

2) Dm has approved my raptor and the guy playing a monk is building a story with me about us being foster children that were found in the woods or whatever. We are both going to be playing oni-spawn fay. This allowed my stats to come out to (Str 19, Dex 17, Con 15, Int 13, Wis 19, Cha 8)

3) The other two players are actually excited to see how my build goes. The one that is going to be my foster brother is playing a flow monk and wanted to take some team feats to help boost his damage as well.

Again I know people are not meaning to sound like a-holes but you are when you come on here criticizing about optimizing. Please if you are not comfortable with this idea then don't comment. Talking about this being a good idea or not is not what this post is about.

I don't think this is a good idea, partly what's been covered before but I really want to stress how not worth it this will be.

You want to prove a point to the group, that's okay. But what you're doing is that you add to their points. They probably won't think less of the Unchained Monk just because another thing is broken.

There is also a problem with a disparity of optimization in groups, it's sometimes bigger than the difference between rolled stats. By min-maxing, you break this balance. Not only will you "out-shine" them, you'll also create a lot of problems for the DM, as he'll need to attempt to balance things according to you. All this risks the players' and the DM's enjoyment of the game and while you are prepared to move on and find a new group, don't ruin their fun until then.

So playing an optimized character is not a good idea because I will look to powerful? So your recommendation is to play a dumbed down character that wont benifit the party because I will hurt the others feelings or frustrate my DM? Maybe its just me but I dont see the logic in that. If I can show them what optimizing a character looks like that should excite them to want to do it as well. That in turn would lead to tougher more exciting challenges my dm can come up with. I just cant see people becoming mad because they want to play a "fun" build. Then when they get through half an adventure and are dying all the time they get mad at the dm saying its too hard. IdK just don't understand peoples logic.

As a hunter you said going with a reach weapon was good because of the pack flanking. What weapon would you recommend. I got 3000g to spend at the beginning 1500 of that is for 2 wands im grabbing.

I think im going to forgo the crafting and focus on combat. The hunter is sounding good if I can share teamwork feats plus give the animal its own feats. Heres the thing about getting its intelligence to 3. I can put armor on it. That was the major reason for it (along with the team feats) So what am I to do about buffing the ac on the animal now if I leave its int alone? With my original plan it had 22 ac because of armor. I dont think I can get it that high without it.

Great now you got me looking at hunter lol. It seems like we are focusing more on melee but I still need to be able to take care of range targets and things like swarms. Ill look more into hunter when I get home and get back with you.

so does hunter get to beast shape. Reason for my thinking is I can change into a raptor myself and with being medium I am assuming I follow the medium animal companion version of raptor for my attacks and stats? if so thats 5 attacks with pounce allowing up to 5d6 additional damage from myself and from my ac

Ok so I did some more tweeking and this is what I got so far. My dm is ok with dinosaurs and I was thinking of focusing more on the bond between myself the my AC instead of summonings.

Lv 3 Human Druid (no archetype)Eye for Talent trait
Stats: Str (19) Dex (15) Con (15) Int (11) Wis (17) Cha (10)

Feats (2 total) : Power Attack, Precision Strike (Teamwork Feat)

Skills: Handle Animal, Spellcraft (maxed), Perception (Maxed), Survival(2), Knowledge Nature (1) Knowledge Plane (1), Use Magic Device (maxed)

Traits: Foster Child, Dangerously Curious

Spells: (1) Shillelagh, Magic Fang, Entangle
(2) Summon Swarm, Lesser Restoration

Weapon: Club, Scimitar, Shortbow
Armor: Darkwood Heavy Shield, Agile Breastplate (Ironwood)

Gear: Wand of CLW, Wand of Endure Elements, Potion of Enlarge Person (6)

Animal Companion: Velociraptor (Int boosted)
Feats: Precision Strike (Teamwork Feat), Light Armor Proficiency
AC Armor: Masterwork Lamellar Leather

My thought process is to enlarge the AC at beginning of fight the charge in with it. Get Shillelagh on myself and get into flanking position. If all of the AC's attacks hit it would be 1d8,2d6,+ 3d6(Teamwork Feat) or 1d6,2d4,+3d6 if not enlarged. Along with that I would be doing 2d6 plus the 1d6 along with power attack and flanking....

Just alot of damage. Starting out I would have 20AC and my pet would have 22AC So probably most tanky of the group too.

Yes I am postponing craft wondrous item, but the survivability is to good to give up for crafting at this level.

Cant seem to find a wand of endure elements. Is it actually a thing?

Also I was just cracking a joke, you guys are doing great work in here. :-)

Thanks Mr. Smash

Why are you starting at level 3? Are you skipping half a book?

There's 2 reasons for that. 1)We had a person running a campaign before this that just up and left. At that time we had just turned level 5. I am new to this group (8th months)and from what I understand they have never been able to get over level 5. So to speed up the adventure we are starting at beginning at lv 3 to make the first couple books quicker.

2)We are only 3 manning this adventure so to make it a little easier on us we got the lv boost. (DM doesn't want to gimp the adventure by getting ride of caravan stuff)

Ok so lets revise here:

Lv 3 Human Druid (no archtype)
Stats: Str (17) Dex (15) Con (15) Int (11) Wis (17) Cha (10)

Feats (3 total) : Spell Focus: Conjuration, Power Attack, Craft
Wondrous Item

Skills: Handle Animal, Spellcraft, Perception (Max?), Survival(1-2), Linguistic(1-2)

Traits: Younger Sibling (Ameiko), something that gives Knowledge: Planes as a class skill

Spells: (1) Faerie Fire, Magic Fang for Monk and Tiger, Entangle
(2) Summon Swarm, Lesser Restoration

Animal Companion: White Tiger
Weapon: Club,some kind of range
Armor: Hide, Wooden Shield

Gear: Wand of CLW, Wand of Endure Elements

Now the question is, do I max out perception? Also what about handle animal? I am not familiar with the workings of crafting anything. How does craft wondrous item work? Im assuming I am putting +2 into Wis to make it 19?

Ok so on the giantipt forums this is what we have come up with so far.

Lv 3 Human Druid (no archtype)
Stats: Str (17) Dex (15) Con (15) Int (11) Wis (17) Cha (10)

Feats (3 total) : Spell Focus: Conjuration, Weapon Proficiency (Naginata), Combat Reflexes

Skills: Handle Animal, Knowledge (Plane, Nature), Survival, Linguistic

Traits: Younger Sibbling (Ameiko), something that gives Knowledge: Planes as a class skill

Spells: (1) Faerie Fire, Magic Fang for Monk and Tiger, Entangle
(2) Summon Swarm, Lesser Restoration

Animal Companion: White Tiger or Allosaurus if allowed

Weapon: Naganata?

Armor: ?

Gear: Wand of CLW and/or Wand of Goodberries

Need help with armor choice and any other gear I might need. Now my understanding is that I am a prepared caster so I prepare the spells from my list but I can leave some open so that I can cast Natures ally correct? Other then that Do I sit back and cast/use range weapons or use the naganata up close with my Animal Companion? Also do I get armor for animal companion? How shouls I build the Animal Companion?

Is there anything else you guys can think of that was missed?

You are a novice player asking for "powerful builds" so you can essentially cause trouble at your table of novice players. This will end badly for a variety of reasons including your lack of mechanical familiarity, lack of knowledge, and the approach you are attempting in the first place. This can only end badly, with either ooc frustration, an arms race with the gm, or similar problems. You are destroying a healthy dynamic over a petty disagreement regarding the unchained monk.

I strongly advise that you stop now. You will prove nothing. Further, if you cannot put together such a character on your own you likely lack the required knowledge to actually achieve the results that people here promise.

Summoner is a terrible choice for an unskilled player. Synthesist is far worse. Both are complex and heavily rules intensive. There are veteran players that cannot make the math work on them, and many of their rules are nuanced. Anything with a pet is also bad.

Even if you succeed in building and running powerful character, it will only create problems - optimisation is only problematic in terms of players disparity or player to Gmail disparity.

If by novice you are talking about how long you have been playing for then yes I am a novice. They however are not. They have been playing for over 3 years. They just have a poor understanding of optimization and what classes when optimized well, are stronger then others. That is what I am trying to prove. From the why you talk it seems like you have more personal issues with this topic then just friendly advice. Yes I am newer to pathfinder. (8 months) I have not played every class/race so it is in my mind, reasonable to ask others advice on what are stronger classes to lean towards. If a group of veterans (time wise) get that pissed off at me for building a better optimized character then they have ever done, then that is a group I don't need to waste my time with anyways. I am trying to show that with a little bit of optimizing there are a lot of classes that can far outpace the monk. I have played a regular summoner before and it is not a "Hard" class to play. Did I min max it, no. But I don't have every feat and trait memorized either. From your stand point if I don't know how to properly optimize a class without asking for help I should not play it. If that's the case I would never be able to branch out and try other classes. Thank you for your concern but I have thought this over. Presenting a strong optimized character is not something that should start "Issue" with my group and if it does then I will move on to another group that understands this. If you can help and offer advice when it comes to building a class, that would be wonderful. If not, then I please ask that you move on please and thank you. (Not trying to be mean)

Wow this blew up over a days span lol. Ok so I am on the Giantitp forums and a lot of people are recommending druid. Some good advice I got was to keep it simple but to optimize it so well that it looks like its over powering. That is something I think I am leaning towards doing instead of some crazy build that gives the dm and other players an excuse to say "Well you had to do some crazy build to be overpowered" Which will in turn not help my argument of the monk debate. So lets keep it simple. I am looking at human druid with a tiger or a synthesis summoner that is more melee built but can use a bow if needed. Also I have been advised by many that the campaign does not leave a lot for getting better gear so I have been told to get a proficiency with the naganata. So lets keep it simple and if I am going with the synthesis I am going to go aasimar for the resistances for the bad weather to come and also the are able to pick up spell resistance in their variant.

So what am I looking at for feats at lv 3 before I start going towards heavenly radiance?

I just looked and though about taking multiweapon fighting and exotic: Dwarven double axe for my first 2 feats. Later down the road I can also grab power and cleave. That would make it worth standing in a group of enemies and just swinging away at them.

Jeremy Coppersmith wrote:

Turin the Mad wrote:

Bipedal keeps things simple - and it keeps all of your magic item slots in play. Except armor, but for a synthesis, armor is what you rest in for 190 minutes/day. ;)

So if we are keeping with bipedal, should I be focusing on natural attacks or weapons? I feel like natural attacks would work better or am I wrong?

It depends. I rather like that the bipedal eidolon can mix things up with both natural and manufactured weapons. Also, it lends itself well to defensive and mobility evolutions. Also, cheap +8 skill bonuses. Stick with the slam attacks and use the nastiest 2-handed weapon you can get your grubby paws on, grab a sling and go to town.

What would you say is a good two hand weapon? I know alot of people go with the axe that does d10

Bipedal keeps things simple - and it keeps all of your magic item slots in play. Except armor, but for a synthesis, armor is what you rest in for 190 minutes/day. ;)

So if we are keeping with bipedal, should I be focusing on natural attacks or weapons? I feel like natural attacks would work better or am I wrong?

OK let me do the rundown again (this will be constant sorry)

Lv 3 Aasimar Synthesis summoner

Gear: ring of sustenace

Feats:Heavenly Radiance all the way to lv 9?

Spells: Cantrips: Acid splash, daze, detect magic, guidance, light, mending
Lv 1: Mage armor, 3 of choice due to being able to heal eidolin with normal means.

Skills: Max perception, Diplomacy

I am thinking of using a quad based eidolin with pounce, or Biped with slams not sure yet.

Hrm. Well, given you won't give a fig about the cold weather, I'd go with a ring of sustenance already attuned. If it isn't, stock up a week's worth of rations. Afterwards, you won't be more than a 3 hour rest plus the ten minutes to don your 'suit' from being ready to rock-n-roll for another day.

The other 500 gp in part depends on your Iron Monster's 5 evolution points. It has to be bipedal for you to wear it, but the upside is that it's your size.

Have you hashed out the Iron Monster yet?

I have not looked into the monster yet but my understanding is, you are allowed to have it be any type you want. (quid,bi,serp)

Some of this depends on your ability scores.

Feats 1st and 3rd are Heavenly Radiance (total of 2). Gives you 3/day (Sp) pool you can use interchangeably for your choice of daylight, flare burst or wake of light.

Re: gear, depends. Is there a per-item gp cap? How much does your character know about where they're going? How is your Use Magic Device bonus looking? First step: 2 or more spell component pouches. Sometimes bad guys target them for theft or destruction.

Are you a standard aasimar or one with variant racial abilities/traits? Assuming you're making a beeline to blast sunbeams at 9th level, your only options without knowing your GM's ruling is Halo (replacing darkvision, a toss-up) and Scion of Humanity (debatable value, mostly an RP decision). I don't recommend either one, especially if you plan to have a degree of Stealth.

Since you have resist acid/cold/electricity 5, cold weather concerns aren't all that much to worry about - you pretty much ignore the climate/environmental concerns save for snowstorms et al.

Skills: given racial bonuses, take Diplomacy and Perception at maximum ranks even if you can't snag a trait to make Perception a class skill. Caveat: if one of the other two is covering Diplomacy, let them. You'll need all the skill ranks you can get your grubby paws on.

Edit: ok, synthesist summoner it is.

Suggested known spells:

Cantrips (6) acid splash, daze {swap at 5th to read magic}, detect magic, guidance, light, mending
1st Level (4) mage armor (for yourself and the monk - take all of your eidolon's armor bonus as a natural armor bonus), rejuvenate eidolon - lesser, 2 of choice. There are many many options, so this depends in part on how you built your Iron Monster suit/eidolon.

Umpteenth Edit: in this case I recommend meticulously planning out your evolution points per-level through about 15th, along with your feats. You won't have feats to spare before 11th or
...

So the GM is ok with allowing regular healing to work on eidolin. (wands,potions,cure spells) That should help me when it comes to healing it. No cap of items I just have 3000g to play with. If the item i want ends up being from an adventure or something with its own title i might have to run it by the gm.

*Also going regular aasimar

So we have an aasimar Synthisis summoner at lv 3. Sun beam looks good for later lvs. So what should my build look like at lv 3? what feats are important what items for starting with 3000g?

So I was thinking of going aasimar for the race. The get some good traits and dark vision. Also there class allows for dr/evil for their eidolon. Is that a good choice?

So If we were to stick with a summoner, how best can I start to build this guy to help the party survive?

So we have decided that summoner is going to be the way to go. Great now which summoner to take? Master or Synthesis? Also how should I allocate my points to match which one I play?

Is the general thought that I should run a summoner? Is there any other class that is able to cast defensive, offensive, be tanky, and use cure wands easily?

I have no idea how this adventure plays. First time running it myself. Fairly new to pathfinders as well. Been playing for about 8 months now.

I hope you're getting Background Skills from Unchained, as having significant ability to entertain the troops is very nearly a must. Perception as usual is a "must max out ranks". If possible, a trait to make it a class skill. If no traits, the Cosmopolitan feat will address several concerns out of the gate.

Your summoner might also consider the Endurance, Die Hard and Fast Healer feat chain. There is every possibility that you'll be the only one still standing...

Anything dealing with unchained is not allowed per my GM

Ramp up that Use Magic Device skill since your group completely lacks healing ability if you're playing a Summoner. At least they'll have good Stealth (well, they should given their classes). The ninja's going to be doing the 'ninja vanish' shtick, leaving your character and the monk in the high-and-dry for the monsters to pound on.

Starting at 3rd level in Jade Regent, your group is going to need all of the non-hp curatives they can get their grubby paws on. This can change dramatically if the NPCs are providing cures after the fights, but those NPCs won't always be available.

I hope that your group's GM is going to gloss over the caravan subsystem....

Nope we are going at this full throttle. Caravan system and all.

While talking things through with the other players, and finding a power level that everyone is comfortable with is probably the best answer, it not exactly what the OP was asking for. And I think most of us have played with at least a few people who have an incredibly poor sense of game balance, and likely poor rules knowledge, leading to exceptionally poor characters. I'm talking the dex based rogue who uses a katana, or the wizard who starts with an intelligence of 14 so he can hit something with a sword, but never multi classes out of wizard.

Personally, I've seen players like that come to a table, and see how effective a well built character can be, decide that maybe their idea of a balanced character is a little off. So, in the spirit of that, here are some builds that are pretty darned effective.

Starting with the melee character, the invulnerable rager barbarian with the superstitious, beast totem and come and get me rage powers. Add in dazing assault with the come and get me and you can literally have enemies walk up to you just to get hit.

Next would be a zen archer monk. It's an archer, but it has abilities to let it get stuck in the front and still perform admirably. And the plus side, it's an example of a monk that's going to be better than the unchained monk, showing that they're not better than other classes, or even it's unchained version.

After that are the full casters. Pretty much anything focused on summoning will outshine the monk. In fact pretty much any optimized 9 level caster will outshine it at levels 10+.

Now, whether playing any of these will change anything, or just create animosity between the other players is pretty questionable. But if you're dead set on playing a class more powerful than the UnMonk, that's where I'd start.

Biggest issue we are going to have is that there is only going to be 3 of use going through the adventure. The other 2 are picking classes that are not going to go far with them because of poor building knowledge. One is picking a monk thinking that is will be the strongest melee class and the other is going ninja. Neither are concerned about healing or ranged. Im learning more towards a class that can use cure wands and mage armor to help out the monk. Summoner seemed like a good choice. How best should I build a summoner that can play support for those two?

Well, if you really want to... play a Synthesist Summoner ("You DID say we weren't allowed to use Unchained Versions", I suppose).

It's not so much that it's strong as it just has a really high optimization floor, so it's preeeeetty hard to get wrong if you know what you're doing. XD

So I played a regular summoner in our reigns of winter play but we only got to about lv 5 and started having issues with them dying because of poor character building. (another reason im doing this) I liked the summoner and the synthesis summoner looked appealing. With the info I provided how would I start to build one properly?

This is not a good idea.

I agree that your group does not seem to have min-max players. At first glance, it sounds like they're judging power in terms of damage in combat - and being the damage dealer can make you LOOK strong, sure, but that's not the only measure of value. If they honestly believe any form of Monk is better than a Wizard, especially at high levels, then they do not adequately understand either class.

Honestly, though, anything I advised you to play would probably just end up being disliked by your table. Instead of trying to "prove them wrong", you should try focusing on which character would be most fun for you and your group to have at the table. ^^ Also, maybe have an OOC talk with them - point them to some online tier lists and go from there.

Im not looking to upset them and I don't think doing this really would. I know them well enough that they would laugh and say I proved them wrong. I want to show them its not all about looking at the damage on the class page and that if you build it right, many of the "Weak" classes outpace the strong ones mid campaign.

So tonight my home group talked classes and started on the road to making our characters for the jade regent campaign. I have been denied playing unchanged monk because the other 3 people I play with say that the unchained monk is too overpowered compared to the other classes. They even went on to say that it looks more overpowered then a wizard!!! Now this group has never gotten to end game parts of a campaign and not really min-max players. However, I intend to show them what a "Overpowered" class looks like and need your help in doing so. I am fairly new to Pathfinders but I have played in society long enough to see crazy builds that would wipe my friends builds away. So heres the info.

As far as score/attributes go we roll for them. I am rocking with two 17s, two 15s, an 11, and a 10. (17,17,15,15,11,10) I really prefer melee or in your face playstyle.

Rules are we are not allowed occult or unchained classes. Races are not an issue but must be approved by GM. He is not ok with things normally considered "Evil" and it is probably best to stick with the common races. But if you feel something a little far out there is better then I can bring up the race to him.

We are starting at lv 3 and with 3000g.

Multiclassing is ok.

Last thing, it is going to be just a 3 man campaign for now until we find more people to join us in our area.

And thats it so come on guys lets do this and show these fools what a real "OP" build looks like.

Well I guess that throws my ff dragoon based character thought out the window. Only option now is to take actual dragoon and "Jump" from the back of an axe beak "Chocobo"

I'm looking specifically at champion. Is this a legal option to add to a character or not. Could not find anything in additional resources about mythic stuff. If it is, how does mythic stuff work?

What have I done!!!! What have I created!!!! God how did my question fall so low to the rage within these people. I didn't realize how this would just turn into a I hate you, you hate me thing. God save us all!

Alright so I didn't think this was that hot of a topic. For everyone on here arguing back and forth I am sorry because I didn't want to start a war lol. I understand the need for knowing the rules and what makes my character the way he is. I know most ppl here have been playing for god knows how long, but I have just started. I don't know anything when it comes to buffs and negative effect. I have only just started society and have only played maybe 12 games ever (home brewed campaign) I did not buy any books or PDFs because I didnt know there was a need to. I used d20 site for most questions I had and I use hero lab for keeping track of the buffs and conditions. Eventually I will learn it all enough not to rely on it but for now it has been a great help. I've gone ahead and purchased all the PDFs I will need to check and back up hero labs if needed. Please remember that not everyone is super knowledgeable about everything pathfinders and that yes there are new people that have no clue about anything when it comes to this game because of lack of experience. Even if using pen and paper. Thank you all who tried to somewhat answer my question on this topic. Now I have to get back to reading all the fighting while eating popcorn. :-P

I accept that people use Hero Lab but unfortunately people use it as a crutch. "But Hero Lab says..." is a constant refrain. Hero Lab is not the book and should not replace the book.

I find that system mastery is increased if you actually build the characters yourself. Frankly, I see fewer errors in any character I have ever produced than those any player brings to the table using Hero Lab.

Of course, those players would probably have a greater number of errors if they had NOT used Hero Lab but they have an unreasonable expectation that their characters are 100% accurate.

Edit: Just to clarify, I don't dislike Hero Lab, I dislike how some people use it as a crutch rather than learning the rules.

I actually ended up grabbing the PDFs for what I needed. Hero Lab listed what books all the things came out of. Cost me $55 but better then $200+

Ok so looking at 60-70 for PDFs that I need or $200 up for books......yeah going pdfs

Whether or not Hero Lab is "frowned upon" depends on your area. In our region, all the VOs depend on Hero Lab, so there is no chance it will ever get frowned upon. However, Hero Lab is not a substitute for your chronicles and inventory sheets, for knowing the rules, or for having the resources.

Hero Lab is a very useful tool. Like any tool, you have to know how to use it correctly to avoid mishaps. When using Hero Lab for PFS:

1) Make sure you have the correct hero configuration. Select the "Pathfinder Society Character" option, and turn off any resources that you don't have a valid copy of that you could bring to the table.

2) If your character has any validation errors showing, check all of them. If it's actually an error, resolve it. If it's a Hero Lab error, make sure you understand why it's wrong and what the correct value should be.

3) Make sure you understand how and why Hero Lab is calculating all your numbers. Be sure you can explain them to anyone who asks. Go through each of your In Play options and make sure all the adjustments are correct. (The worst thing you can do is say, "I don't know how I got that number--it's just what Hero Lab says." That's the kind of thing that gets Hero Lab "frowned upon".)

4) Pick up Shadow Chemosh's custom adjustment packages from d20PFSRD. Any time you find a discrepancy between your numbers and Hero Lab's numbers, you can use the adjustments to correct them.

5) REPORT BUGS. If you see something wrong in Hero Lab, send in a bug report. Lone Wolf is pretty responsive, and I haven't seen any bugs last more than 1 or 2 updates.

6) Be aware of the implementation choices that affect your character. For example, Hero Lab doesn't automatically adjust for Furious Focus, since it's very situational and only applies to the "first attack" for a round. You have to know that and adjust for Furious Focus manually (or use Chemosh's adjustment package).

7) Keep an "offline" version of your character, maybe even a printed version. Computers crash, so you...

That is all great advice thank you. What PDFs should I be buying?

Also what hard copy/PDFs will I need to get in order to play a Tengu monk with archetypes and exotic weapons. (Include anything I will need to play in general)

So now that I know all that money I threw at hero lab is worthless in society, I am assuming if someone I know has hard back copies, even if they photocopied the pages I needed from it, I could not use them because of no watermark. With that said if I do unfortunately have to buy this stuff again, is it better to go PDFs or hard copies

Hello everyone. I am very new to pathfinder (playing only 3 months) and just started society a couple days ago. I have bought all my stuff through hero labs and created my character using it as well. I just went to my second scenario yesterday with my tablet and was inform by the GM that hero labs is frowned upon and that is I have my character "audited" that hero labs is not official. So unless I have physical books or water marked PDFs I can not play and my be kicked from games. Is this statement true? I don't really have the money to buy everything and don't see why I would have to because it would be like buying a second copy. Also I thought that paizo backed hero labs. Can someone clarify to me whats what and if I am going to be kicked from games because I use hero labs.