Well, it is mythic...
Undetectable is phrased as an absolute.
Nothing beats Undetectable.
Undetectable is phrased as an absolute.
Nothing beats Undetectable.
Unless something was phrased as "This counters Undetectable".
Personally, I've ruled that it operates like Mythic Invisibility with a cut-off equal to your Tier (Max 5):
The invisibility can't be penetrated, revealed, or dispelled by spells of 2nd level or lower (such as see invisibility or glitterdust), thoughtrue seeing and dust of appearance can reveal the invisible target's presence.
Meaning that spells of 6th level or higher can always penetrate undetectable, but otherwise the target is completely impossible to spot. In addition, special abilities from Mythic creatures of a higher tier than the player would also work (tremorsense, blindsense, etc.)
What this meant was that the Undetectable was a very powerful, Mythic ability that allowed the player to create an incredible reputation amongst those who weren't as powerful, but wasn't as useful against their biggest foes.
How's this for an answer?With all respect to Mr. McFarland, it was a lousy answer then... and it's not aged well in the interim. It does not answer the fact that "Undetectable" as written was one of the most powerful mythic abilities that one could select it was simply too good. Letting that statement rest unchecked will break almost any campaign, mythic or not.
In our WOTR game we ruled that mythic detection spells could bypass it... as well as powerful mythic creatures as well.
As written, and as confirmed by McFarland's quote above, not even true seeing will work against Undetectable.
This is why we ended up banning it and Foe Biting from our WotR game. They both ended up being a bit too broken, even by the standards of high tier mythic play.
Yes, undetectable is merely mostly as good as mind blank (which grants a massive bonus to saves vs. mind effecting in addition to thwarting all divination).
Undetectable still loses to things like faerie fire, glitterdust, or invisibility purge.
It also loses to things like lifesense, blindsense, and blindsight, though there's a separate path ability to gets around those.
So yes, it works against see invisibility or true seeing (just like an invisible person with mind blank), and still loses to the various "hard" counters to invisibility (just like an invisible person with mind blank).
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Yes, undetectable is merely mostly as good as mind blank (which grants a massive bonus to saves vs. mind effecting in addition to thwarting all divination).
Undetectable still loses to things like faerie fire, glitterdust, or invisibility purge.
It also loses to things like lifesense, blindsense, and blindsight, though there's a separate path ability to gets around those.
So yes, it works against see invisibility or true seeing (just like an invisible person with mind blank), and still loses to the various "hard" counters to invisibility (just like an invisible person with mind blank).
Not True.
Lifesense, blindsense, blindsight do not work.
Glitterdust, faerie fire, and invisibility purge do. Fog does not work nor does flour or anything else unless it specifically says it counters or removes invisibility.
Basically Undetectable is a toggle that says "If you have invisibility you are completely undetectable."
It is completely wonky as written and almost always house-ruled, just as foe-biting is or mythic vital strike.
Yes, it is 1. Because mythic.There's an FAQ request about this floating around somewhere.
There are three schools of thought:
1) The character is undetectable by any means (including Perception skill checks, blind sight, tremorsense and true seeing).
2) The character is undetectable by magic, but senses work normally.
3) The character is immune to "detect" spells and any effects based on the scry spell.
Pick your preference. I waver between 1 and 2.
Covent has it basically right.
Long and short, Undetectable makes you invisible to all senses, regardless of anything the subject might do. Mechanics-wise, you have a 50% miss chance against all attacks until the invisibility is gone.
As a GM I'd probably start getting a bit strict about the fact that the character is just as undetectable to their allies.
Invisibility purge, dispel magic, disjunction, etc are your friends.
Yes, undetectable is merely mostly as good as mind blank (which grants a massive bonus to saves vs. mind effecting in addition to thwarting all divination).
Undetectable still loses to things like faerie fire, glitterdust, or invisibility purge.
It also loses to things like lifesense, blindsense, and blindsight, though there's a separate path ability to gets around those.
So yes, it works against see invisibility or true seeing (just like an invisible person with mind blank), and still loses to the various "hard" counters to invisibility (just like an invisible person with mind blank).
Not True.
Lifesense, blindsense, blindsight do not work.
Glitterdust, faerie fire, and invisibility purge do. Fog does not work nor does flour or anything else unless it specifically says it counters or removes invisibility.
Basically Undetectable is a toggle that says "If you have invisibility you are completely undetectable."
It is completely wonky as written and almost always house-ruled, just as foe-biting is or mythic vital strike.
Yes, it is 1. Because mythic.There's an FAQ request about this floating around somewhere.
There are three schools of thought:
1) The character is undetectable by any means (including Perception skill checks, blind sight, tremorsense and true seeing).
2) The character is undetectable by magic, but senses work normally.
3) The character is immune to "detect" spells and any effects based on the scry spell.
Pick your preference. I waver between 1 and 2.
Huh. Neat. The ninja in our game should probably be talking to the GM about changing out some path abilities then (she had an item with undetectable and she's been taking supreme stealth, because she thought she needed both to consistently beat blindsight.)
Though we do keep in mind that the other party members can't track her in battle either (other than by the blood spurts).
Yeah my player with this carried paper and charcoal to leave notes due to the party not being able to see or hear him.
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Covent has it basically right.
Long and short, Undetectable makes you invisible to all senses, regardless of anything the subject might do. Mechanics-wise, you have a 50% miss chance against all attacks until the invisibility is gone.
Its more than that, you have to guess what square they're in which is nearly impossible. Then if you somehow manage that you have the 50% miss chance. Pretty much without a very lucky faerie fire (4 squares), a decent chance w/ glitterdust (20 ft radius), or the almost sure thing invisibility purge (5 ft radius per level) good luck. In a dungeon room that's doable, outside vs an undetectable creature with flight or good movement your best bet is to retreat to a more enclosed position. Best bet it to nuke the battlefield from orbit. Its the only way to be sure!
--Vrocket Launcher
Do yourself a favor if you GM, and houserule or ban Undetectable.
I have only ever banned one first-party Pathfinder ability, and this was it.
There is no good way to handle an ability of this magnitude, mythic or not.
For example, we can assume an archer rogue or some other sneaky ranged type takes it.
They can quite literally never fail the stealth check after sniping, provided they have an invisibility effect operating on them.
At all.
As per the RAW, if I have undetectable and an invisibility effect then I am completely and utterly undetectable.
I can remove your trousers and run, you don't detect me.
I can steal your cart, and ride away on your mule.
You don't detect me.
I can casually begin beating you down with a nearby barrel lid and a screaming halfling child.
You don't detect me.
Even for mythic powers, this ability is well above what can be expected.
So just don't use it.
Seriously.
Just say no to drugs.
I had a front-line fighter who had no way to become invisible without help (potions, the wizard, or whatever) take it. It wasn't a problem. (The game was running at 23rd level with mythic tier 5, a character who could become undetectable was the least of my concerns.)
Now, that's anecdotal, and thus completely useless for an objective evaluation, and I merrily accept that if a character has a reliable way to become invisible when they want to, it's ridiculously overpowered, even for mythic.
Of all the abilities I've seen, it's the one that most needs careful GM consideration.
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Its a great ability, especially for a caster or ranged attacker, but it isn't fool proof. Like I said there are several ways to negate invisibility, you just can't detect them. Its not much different than say a shadowdancer with HiPS, high stealth modifier, and greater invisibility vs someone with true seeing. Once you realize the easy way of seeing them won't work you need to eliminate them another way... faerie fire, glitterdust, or invisibility purge.
--Vrock, Paper, Scissors.