[Dreamscarred Press] Presents: "Arcforge: Technology Expanded"

[Insain Dragoon]

What if instead of the "hand" enahancement it instead let you treat one of your weapons as if you were wielding it, while the rest became secondary natural attacks?

That way you could avoid the whole handedness thing altogether. Although that could make shields a bit awkward.

[Michael Sayre]

Insain Dragoon wrote:

What if instead of the "hand" enahancement it instead let you treat one of your weapons as if you were wielding it, while the rest became secondary natural attacks?

That way you could avoid the whole handedness thing altogether. Although that could make shields a bit awkward.

Not a terrible idea at all. Let me ruminate on it while I work on writing up the rest of these changes. I think you're probably on to something though.

[Insain Dragoon]

Will size increases also grant bonus weapon slots or is it more about what chassis you pick?

Also Iron Blooded Orphans has a good example of the weapon slots system.

Note small guns on each forearm whilst carrying a large.... Fight stick

[Michael Sayre]

Insain Dragoon wrote:

Will size increases also grant bonus weapon slots or is it more about what chassis you pick?

I want chassis to be more important on the weapons front, but I could definitely see a strong argument being made for a size increase granting a bonus slot.

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Also Iron Blooded Orphans has a good example of the weapon slots system.

Note small guns on each forearm whilst carrying a large.... Fight stick

"Fight stick". I like that.

[Michael Sayre]

Still working on cleaning up the verbage I want to use for the new slot rules, but I've sketched out some basic rules for crafting mechs and vehicles separately from class features and added them to the playtest.

[Adam B. 135]

The rules look solid for crafting. Though it seems the feats are mislabeled in the "Non-Companion Mechs and Vehicles" section? Craft Mech lets you build vehicles and Craft Companion Vehicles has you craft mechs.

I guess my only question is: What happens when one is reduced to negative hit points? They may not be expensive (well, you still gotta pay to arm them), but it'd suck if they die forever.

Also with these rules, I can run the squad leader the way I've wanted to! Awesomeness. I do have concerns about the squad leader's collective size. At 1st level, the squad leader doesn't really have a penalty to the collective's size. However, by the next level, their collective already drops. Assuming an 18 intelligence, they just went from a 4 to a 3. Even at 20th level, their collective gets reduced to 3. This makes it feel like they should never actually pilot their mech. If they pilot, they are forced to choose between supporting their party or their mecha squad. If they don't pilot they will have more than enough room to support both.

[Jamie Charlan]

Insain Dragoon wrote:

Will size increases also grant bonus weapon slots or is it more about what chassis you pick?

Also Iron Blooded Orphans has a good example of the weapon slots system.

Note small guns on each forearm whilst carrying a large.... Fight stick

If we go by that, Barbatos has the "hands" to use a melee weapon, Two mortars or FOUR autocannons (one or two per arm respectively) and a 300mm that eventually became backpack-mounted.

If this is a good example, then are we to understand that significantly smaller weapons will be grouped per slot (such as having 2 large machineguns instead of 1 hotchkiss)?

Because while it's a lot of individual weapons, there's NO way a melee bipedal suit like that (2 slots start) spent 3 enhancements on weapon slots AND a pair of melee arms while still having room for the armor, mobility and and life support enhancements.

Will 1 weapon slot be 1 medium weapon if you're a medium mech? What about a Gargantuan, or Colossal? Surely a Colossal mech can mount a Colossal weapon without needing 4-5 levelling enhancements - or perhaps more importantly, surely it would not be at its limits with five pintle-mounted machineguns found near some trap-doors for crew in its massive, massive frame.

Because that would be ridiculous.

[Michael Sayre]

Bipedal mechs will be getting melee arms for free as part of their base chassis.

As I mentioned earlier, the plan is for 1 slot to equal 1 medium weapon, regardless of base mech size, and for slotted weapons to be treated basically like natural attacks. As part of supporting this, I'm expanding the selection of heavy weapons available to choose.

This means the intended heavy weapon platforms, the quadruped and the CTV, can automatically use either a huge bank of medium sized weapons, or a smaller number of larger weapons for more powerful blasts. They'll naturally scale up to colossal ranged weapons automatically, if they choose to go that route. The bipeds will have in-built melee arms so they can wield size appropriate melee weapons while still having a bank or two of medium missile arrays or lasers, and the agile mechs will generally be a lower damage higher mobility option.

As I've also mentioned before, I'm certainly open to discussing size increases including something like an additional slot, but I'm not currently convinced that that's necessary.

[Here4daFreeSwag]

Good to see some free mechtype stuff. ;)

[Adam B. 135]

I got a friend that is allergic to forums, but he wanted me to relay what he thinks about the playtest and stuff he wants to see.

He wants to see stuff like "grenade spear rack" as a heavy weapon, full Mad Max: Fury Road style. Also, he really wants to see Deff Rollas as either a weapon or mecha enhancement. He also pointed out to me that right now there is no way to hit somebody with your car for lethal damage unless you specifically put a melee weapon on it.

He also wants to see more mecha enhancements for vehicles such as an enhancement to allow a weapon on the transport vehicle to be fired with the driver's action or defensive railing or an armored transport compartment. There also is not a mecha enhancement for a faster land speed.

Additionally, the Road Warrior feels like its heavily encouraged to stick with motorcycles. Moving Target's secondary ability doesn't help either of the cars, even though the sports car also has a speed boost ability.

I got a question too. For the Craft Companion Vehicle/Mech feats it says that you can repair stuff at half the cost of raw materials. How do you determine the costs of raw materials?

[Jamie Charlan]

Ssalarn wrote:

Bipedal mechs will be getting melee arms for free as part of their base chassis.

They already get a shield function which is pretty nice to have. Will the Agile and Quadruped get a function of their own to keep things equal? If so, like what?

Natural Attacks: So, strength to damage to cannons? They ARE natural.

Problem: Does this mean that a person in a mech using weapon slots not only does not get to benefit from the mech's size, but also only gets one attack per different weapon no matter what?

I would like to point out that a regular human is ALSO normally limited to a roughly Medium (likely counting as large) composite (it's never not) longbow, which will vastly outstrip most mechs in firepower, short *possibly* of some quadrupeds who used several enhancements - in addition to their natural progression bonus - on additional weapon slots. You need 7 different weapons just to match the average BAB16 volley of archer. This does not require special class abilities by the archer, just a very normal assignment of standard combat-enhancing feats - less than many other combat sytles in fact.

What will be the primary and secondary type weapon attacks?

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the agile mechs will generally be a lower damage higher mobility option

Right now, agile mechs are restricted to small characters only (BOOOO), and offer less HP, less armor, lower damage, fewer weapon slots, and being able to use it without being a halfling means your stat bonus is lower than other mechs (having required a size-up and an enhancement already, with a minimum level of 7). Given the minimum level for flight, it is highly unlikely the 'hover' ability is much of a boon (you cannot autofail skills on a 1, and your bonus may very well reach the DC15 requirement by level 5-7).

The speed bonus increases land speed but their flight appears set to extremely slow values, making it of very little worth; you need to give yourself a higher flight-speed to put it to use in the first place, and if you do that, why would you use the agile mech instead of simply using flight with any of the others?

Is a complete review and rework of the 'agile' form currently in the works? It is at the moment a decisively 'trap option', due to requiring several enhancements to be functional or keep up with others, while the other mech formats can get what it offers at much lower cost while gaining far more overall.

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As I've also mentioned before, I'm certainly open to discussing size increases including something like an additional slot, but I'm not currently convinced that that's necessary.

I'd say yes, BUT in that case it may be appropriate for the "melee arms" upgrade to require slots for a size-up as well. Perhaps the arms as a concession to melee this is 1 slot for two sizes, though (so melee arms let you get a medium weapon, 1 slot lets you have large or huge, 2 slots for gargantuan and colossal weapons, 3 slots for Colossal II/III, and so on for all those city-mechs.

[Michael Sayre]

Jamie Charlan wrote:

Ssalarn wrote:

Bipedal mechs will be getting melee arms for free as part of their base chassis.

They already get a shield function which is pretty nice to have. Will the Agile and Quadruped get a function of their own to keep things equal? If so, like what?

Quadrupeds already get a bonus weapon slots, and agile mechs are faster and gain a free scaling fly speed.

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Natural Attacks: So, strength to damage to cannons? They ARE natural.

No. This will be called out in the new ruleset.

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Problem: Does this mean that a person in a mech using weapon slots not only does not get to benefit from the mech's size

This isn't true. The mechs gain reach, stat bonuses, and stack slots for larger weapons.

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but also only gets one attack per different weapon no matter what?

"No matter what" is an absolute phrase, and I wouldn't say that since I'm still looking at more options and enhancements, but generally you'll get one attack per slot per turn.

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I would like to point out that a regular human is ALSO normally limited to a roughly Medium (likely counting as large) composite (it's never not) longbow, which will vastly outstrip most mechs in firepower, short *possibly* of some quadrupeds who used several enhancements - in addition to their natural progression bonus - on additional weapon slots. You need 7 different weapons just to match the average BAB16 volley of archer.

Archers bows don't freely size up, nor do most archers get free bonuses to their attack stats, so this really isn't an accurate comparison at all.

That being said, I'd considered making a specific exception to treat bows as wielded weapons requiring the arms enhancement, but it wasn't something I'd really seen as necessary. I am certainly open to feedback and suggestions on thus front though, so I'll keep your thoughts in mind.

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This does not require special class abilities by the archer, just a very normal assignment of standard combat-enhancing feats - less than many other combat sytles in fact.

Archery is probably the most feat intensive combat style in the game, with the possible exception of Two-Weapon Fighting, so this statement also isn't really accurate.

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What will be the primary and secondary type weapon attacks?

I'm looking at adding a large number of new weapons, including missile arrays and some other "cannon" type options, most of which will target areas (lines, cones, bursts, columns, etc.). These will be treated as secondary attacks unless they're the only attack you're making.

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the agile mechs will generally be a lower damage higher mobility option

Right now, agile mechs are restricted to small characters only

Starting out, yes, unless you're playing an option that gains the ability to remotely control mechs, such as the Tactician and Dread archetypes, who may actually prefer smaller and more mobile options.

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(BOOOO), and offer less HP, less armor, lower damage, fewer weapon slots, and being able to use it without being a halfling means your stat bonus is lower than other mechs (having required a size-up and an enhancement already, with a minimum level of 7). Given the minimum level for flight, it is highly unlikely the 'hover' ability is much of a boon (you cannot autofail skills on a 1, and your bonus may very well reach the DC15 requirement by level 5-7).

The speed bonus increases land speed but their flight appears set to extremely slow values, making it of very little worth

They get a free non-magical flight speed that automatically scales up to perfect maneuverability and can be pushed to higher speeds with some investment. I would say that is definitely of some worth.you need to give yourself a higher flight-speed to put it to use in the first place

It functions without any additional investment.

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and if you do that, why would you use the agile mech instead of simply using flight with any of the others?

Because the agile mech will always be faster and more maneuverable with similar or lesser investment.

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Is a complete review and rework of the 'agile' form currently in the works? It is at the moment a decisively 'trap option', due to requiring several enhancements to be functional or keep up with others, while the other mech formats can get what it offers at much lower cost while gaining far more overall.

I have no intentions at this time of completely rewriting the agile mech, and very much disagree about it being a trap option. The agile mech has greatly superior flight options that the other mech types will never be able to match, and offers many advantages to characters who prefer tools for stealth and mobility to a larger powerhouse.

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As I've also mentioned before, I'm certainly open to discussing size increases including something like an additional slot, but I'm not currently convinced that that's necessary.I'd say yes, BUT in that case it may be appropriate for the "melee arms" upgrade to require slots for a size-up as well. Perhaps the arms as a concession to melee this is 1 slot for two sizes, though (so melee arms let you get a medium weapon, 1 slot lets you have large or huge, 2 slots for gargantuan and colossal weapons, 3 slots for Colossal II/III, and so on for all those city-mechs.

I'll definitely keep this feedback in mind.

Thank you for feedback and input!

Just as a heads up, I'm at a family event through Monday, so I'll be largely unreachable until then.

[Jamie Charlan]

The main issue with the slot/size system is that # of attacks under pathfinder mechanics is inherently several times more important than the size of a single attack, unless one increases the size by several steps. Bows are top of the line for static damage increases AND # of attacks, which is why even rocket launchers can't even come close in a round despite all of those dice. They're used for comparison purposes, but one is fully viable for combat at 2/3~3/4 of a longbow's DPR.

And yes, compared to other combat styles they require less feats. Not that they have less; they do have more as you pointed out. But they're already ahead of the pack, and the 'more' just lets them get even better.

If all slots are only usable once a round, then what you need to compare to are two things:

1) Regular number of attacks at various levels
2) Relative power increase of individual slot systems

Spoiler:

Comparison 1: Level 4 pilots; the footman doesn't buy an extra slot but takes rapid-shot instead
Mech 1 uses 3 slots on obtaining a Huge weapon. We'll say Mosin-Nagants. He'll get bigger ones.
Powerful-Build pilot 2 foots it using his Large one. He'll try to get more attacks.
Mech 3 uses 3 slots on obtaining 3 mediums. It will get more.

Mech 1 deals 3d8+4(DeadlyAim)+1(Point-Blank) once. Average damage 18.5
PBP-2 deals 2d8+4(DeadlyAim)+1(Point-Blank) twice. Average damage 28
Mech 3 deals 1d10+4(DeadlyAim)+1(Point-Blank) thrice. Average damage 31.5

Level 10 pilots; Deadly Aim is now +6, each mech now has +2 slots, and haste is usable.

Mech 1 deals 6d8+7 once. Average damage 34. Vital Strike can net him 61 instead
PBP-2 deals 2d8+7 4 times now. Average damage 64. An "effective size" increase would net him an 82, and next level he gets one more attack!
Mech 3 deals 1d10+7 five times now. Average damage 62.5. But an "effective size" increase from weapon upgrade could make that 80
And here comes Mech 4, which tries to balance size and slots, getting himself somehow 3 large weapons
Mech 4 deals 2d8+7 3 times! ... It's not very effective.

As you can see from a very basic setup (if we complicate things it's worse for the lower # of attacks), as-is, natural BAB and very-standard-combat-aides (haste,etc) outpace the mech slot system, primarily because even a large mech is caught between catching up to the infantry in base per-hit damage, and catching up to the infantry in number of attacks. A direct exchange of one size for one weapon vs one additional attack can thus be seen as exceedingly disadvantageous, especially in the wake of certain "effective size" upgrades as Augmented Weapon, "Lead Bow", or Armory of the Conqueror.

So here's two suggestions, but note that under each of these I'm counting "fire/use" limitations as 'activations' rather than "only one bullet comes out". That is to say, if your use of the weapon is an "attack everyone adjacent" maneuver, then that is what it does. Games I've been playing it even allow maneuvers with "Slow-Firing" weapons, which has really given them and strikes new life.

1) Easier and straightforward: Weapon Generators. Instead of directly upping a weapon's size for more slots, you can spend a slot to up the max size capacity of two of your other slots by one (starting at medium as usual), to a maximum of +1 over the mech's size (agile's already firing mediums for free right now, mind)

This means very little for an agile mech, but will allow a Gargantuan Quadruped with 6 slots to actually be a threat: spend 3 slots and you can use 2 to mount actual gargantuan cannons, with a slot left over. It's not perfect, but it helps compensate if you want to go 'big'

2) The "melee arms" become a "Primary Weapon" slot. Probably worth 2 when you're calculating how many slots to remove elsewhere or whatever. The primary slot can handle a weapon of whatever would be appropriate to the mech's size ('course it might risk going offline if your mech's astral suit is dispelled, or the safeties engage for a non-half-giant pilot not to get pasted by the shock when it fires, or whatever). It acts as a primary natural weapon, but due to the slot system cannot benefit from Feat or BAB iterative attacks; only bonus attacks such as Semi-Automatic or Haste.

Any other attacks you wanna alpha strike are, of course, limited to expending your secondary slots.

Spoiler:

Introducing "Mech 5" and "Mech 6", the creatively named new examples! Mech 5 is a weapon-generator type, who happily gets more slots because she wants to impress the mammoth tank in english class. Hey man, whatever floats her antigrav. Mech 6 has a primary weapon system, and so has a bit of a hybrid taste when it comes to his attacks; somewhere in between a pilot on foot and the other mechs for what to grab.

Mech 5 is a level 10 Quadruped, caring nothing for haste and rapid, but with an unhealthy fetish for mech enhancement feats. a size-up early and 2 enhancements give a total of 6 weapon slots, transformed into 3 Madsens (again?) and 3 generator modules.

Mech 5 is a bit of a one-trick pony dealing 3d8+7 3 times for a decent-ish 61.5 average damage out of the box. It could instead use 4 large weapons for an average of 64. It is VERY weapon-upgrade friendly

Mech 6 is a large biped with a primary weapon system. Mech 6 has a large madsen, and 2 medium madsens, which because primary weapon systems knocked down the available slottage, includes 2 from enhancements or feats.

Mech 6 fires twice for 2d8+7 (16)each, and then wice for 1d10+7 (12.5) with its auxiliaries. This totals only 57, but don't be fooled; Type 6 is the most compatible with special effects such as effective weapon size (which is often single-weapon) and the only slot that uses haste and semi-auto modes!

Regarding Agile Mechs: A comparative example of what they offer compared to, say, a biped, is below. It's not that they're unviable...

Spoiler:

Note on flight: Level 5 allows Fly spell (60ft, Good), Aegis Flight (2cpt = Base Speed, Good = 40ft Good in 'skin' form). 20ft average becoming 30ft good at 10th is not a bad ability, but is very slow as a flight speed, especially when you can do 50ft instead on the ground with the same mech. Even a level 20 flyer just offers 50ft/perfect, which ain't all that fast and the perfect not really all that useful - mostly because the penalties in the most extreme winds *stop*, and are instead replaced by "you can't fly here now".

Agile Mech, Medium Pilot, at level 11
Size Upgrade: HP+10, Weapon Slot, Weapons Upgrade (Ranged), Arcforged Armor
Total:
STR +8 DEX+6, AC+6, HP 15+9HD, Hardness 16, Reach 5ft, Affinity Ranged-Only, Weapon Slots x2, Stealth-4
SPD +20ft Land, or Fly 30(good) [pilot replacement:Fly 60 good], Secondary Attacks: Wings x2(1d6)
Does not need skill check to hover

Biped Mech, Medium Pilot, at level 11
Size Upgrade, Arcforged Armor, Weapons Upgrade(choice), Weapon Slot
Total: STR +6 DEX+6 if ranged, STR+10 DEX+0 if Melee. Stealth-4 if melee
AC+7, HP 20+9HD, Hardness 16, Reach 5ft, Affinity Ranged and Melee, Weapon Slots x3
SPD as pilot [pilot replacement: Fly 60 good], Secondary attacks: Slams x2(2d6)
Shield System: Shield AC +3 or Existing Shield bonus +2

Okay. I'll admit that saying 'trap option' was going a little strong there. But there IS a bit of disparity there due to redundancy (characters will get flight) that would be easily remedied if the mech's speed can simply stack with existing flight, in which case it doesn't even need to offer as many maneuvering upgrades as it already does.

Unless you *cannot* get better flight elsewhere, the difference is that the biped gets equal dex and better stealth if ranged, better strength if melee, higher AC, higher HP, two affinities instead of one, an additional weapon slot, stronger natural weapons, will at this level have exactly the same difficulty hovering wherever it got its flight(none), and gets a shield bonus. Only the land movement is guaranteed to be better in the Agile, as even a monk could get a little extra out of that + there.

In this case the fixes can be quite easy: You'll be adding another boon to bipeds in the form of the 'melee arms' or primary slot or whatever, and that's equal to an enhancement, right? which means room for a boon on the agile and quads as well.

Size aside (I'd like to be able to see small quads as much as large agiles) you can probably give a second standard slot to the agile, and... what WOULD be good for the quads? They're in a decent enough place once 'siege' becomes 'heavy', so it's more a matter of where their strengths might best shore up.

Well, hope some of that is of use or at least readable.

[Dysfunction]

<bump>

also, can I request versioning on the doc, so we know when new content is added?

thank you!

[Michael Sayre]

Wanted to pop in real quick-

First, sorry about the extended radio silence. There's been a lot going on behind the scenes that I'll be filling everyone in on as soon as I'm able.

Second, there should be an update up Monday. Anyone watching the Google playtest doc may have already noticed some of the new changes trickling in. I'll post a detailed explanation of what's changed and why, as well as what's entirely new, when I complete applying the updates.

Third, thank you to everyone who's been following this and providing feedback! It's really appreciated, and I've been doing a lot of number crunching, playtesting, and making some updates and adjustments in response.

[Michael Sayre]

And, update should now be available. Pretty basic adjustments so far, some tidying up of the mech body formats, layout of the new slot rules, and an update from mechs and vehicles using siege weapons to heavy weapons. We'll be adding more heavy weapons (including some affordable low level options) shortly, along with updates to the psicore rules and feats and accompanying archetypes (like a Paladin whose psicore is a fragment of a celestial being that can control his mech for him, and a Vigilante archetype designed to let you play characters like Iron Man, the Atom / Captain Atom, Warmachine, etc.).

I think that actually getting a psicore is way too feat intensive, so I'm working on rewriting it as a psicrystal archetype similar to the familiar and animal companion archetypes that already exist. Hopefully that will open it up to more characters.

[Adam B. 135]

Ssalarn wrote:

an update from mechs and vehicles using siege weapons to heavy weapons. We'll be adding more heavy weapons (including some affordable low level options)

Yesssssss!

Ssalarn wrote:

I think that actually getting a psicore is way too feat intensive, so I'm working on rewriting it as a psicrystal archetype similar to the familiar and animal companion archetypes that already exist. Hopefully that will open it up to more characters.

Yes yes yes!

Sounds like we have some pretty neat additions to look forward to. I look forward to seeing these next too archetypes too. They sound nifty.

[Jack of Dust]

I'm liking the sound of these updates. I'm playing a Kobold Mystic working as our airships head engineer who is very much into technology and I was worried that he wouldn't be able to suit up in a Mech. Good to know that may still be in the cards!

[Michael Sayre]

Hey everyone,
Sorry for the additional update delay, but there's been a lot going on. Some of you who've been following DSP's site and a couple of other threads may be aware that there have been some really bad, really expensive catastrophes hitting members of the staff, accompanied by a few products languishing in development or layout. Unfortunately, DSP has reached a point where some grooming and restructuring really need to happen. As a result, Arcforge will be getting cut from DSP's release schedule, however, we've got an alternate publisher who's going to be picking this up and getting it in everyone's hands. More info on who and when to come shortly. This isn't so much a parting of ways as it is a restructuring to help DSP focus on things that are really at the core of their company identity, and take some pressure off of Jeremy, who's basically been running on fumes ever since the Ultimate Psionics Kickstarter wrapped up. Nothing about the quality or content of the products is going to change.

Some of you may be wondering how Arcforge will reconcile with the recently announced Starfinder; one of the things that I was able to help really get a lock on at PaizoCon last week was a game plan for ensuring that Arcforge will be in players' hands ahead of the Starfinder release, and will be quickly updated as soon as the Starfinder release officially hits in 2017 so that you can continue your campaign in that setting unimpeded.

I'll be keeping this thread open as we wrap the product up, and I'll very likely continue to work with DSP on other projects; we're still going to be pushing Tzocatl through as a DSP product, for example, and there's one or two other products that are currently in the Patreon queue that I may be a part of.

Some of you who've been following my other projects, like Akashic Mysteries, may know that there are a few projects, like a new shadow magic subsystem, the Veridian Dreams Akashic Mysteries expansion, and one or two others that had been written and released for playtest and put on hold or something similar and have been backburnered for quite some time- these products will also be released under a new banner, so keep an eye out for those! I want to stress that this isn't me jumping ship on DSP or anything of the sort- DSP's product schedule has been clogged for some time and moving these larger products that don't fit as well under their new Patreon structure is something that needs to happen for everyone's sanity and financial well-being.

First things first though, now that everyone is on the same page and we've got a game plan in place, I'm going to get Arcforge and Tzocatl knocked out so that everyone who has been playtesting and participating can get a finished product in their hands.

I'm very sorry about the many delays and other issues that have cropped up, but I think that everyone, myself and the other team members at DSP, are all getting our workloads, release schedules, and other issues structured in a way that everyone can comfortably accommodate, and that will ensure that all of you have the largest amount of the highest quality gaming supplements in the most reasonable time-frame going forward.

[Malwing]

Sad to see. Eventual Arcforge was about 50% of the reason why I was signed up on Patreon. When Starfinder was announced I imagined that Arcforge would just be on the backburner until you guys got some more mechanical information about Arcforge, which I would have been okay with because it would give you over a year of development before you have to rekajigger a few things to make it fit Starfinder.

One thing that I had came over to the thread to ask, assuming Arcforge does get delayed was whether or not it was possible to just straight get Akashic Cyborgs. The system of refluffing the Akashic classes is adequate but I'd pay top dollar to have a more 'complete' rewrites of the classes (or just one really) as cyborgs for Starfinder.

[Michael Sayre]

Malwing wrote:

Sad to see. Eventual Arcforge was about 50% of the reason why I was signed up on Patreon. When Starfinder was announced I imagined that Arcforge would just be on the backburner until you guys got some more mechanical information about Arcforge, which I would have been okay with because it would give you over a year of development before you have to rekajigger a few things to make it fit Starfinder.

Unfortunately, there's just so much that DSP has taken on, and even just the backlog of finished products is still being chugged away at. We really had to step back and look at what was there and ask if there was honestly any realistic way to get everything out in the timeframes that it needed to be out by, and make sure everyone was still getting things like sleep and family time along the way. Like I mentioned, Arcforge will still be released well before Starfinder, and I've managed to get some things in the works that will ensure a fully Starfinder compatible re-release will be available as soon as (or shortly after) that system drops. There's some contractual stuff still getting wrapped on that front so I can't say more, but I don't think you'll be disappointed, and Arcforge should be just as valuable a compliment to Starfinder as it will be to Pathfinder (if not even more so).

This decision is actually going to get Arcforge into everyone's hands faster, and make the transition to Starfinder for those who choose to jump to that system quicker and smoother.

Quote:

One thing that I had came over to the thread to ask, assuming Arcforge does get delayed was whether or not it was possible to just straight get Akashic Cyborgs. The system of refluffing the Akashic classes is adequate but I'd pay top dollar to have a more 'complete' rewrites of the classes (or just one really) as cyborgs for Starfinder.

Yeah, that's definitely something I want to get out. Since the bones are already sketched out, I may be able to prioritize that.

The big thing I want to reiterate is that this is something that's ultimately going to be better for the players, for DSP, and for me. There's going to be more total high quality product available than there would be otherwise, I have more flexibility to get some projects that have been largely written and completed out to the consumers faster, and Jeremy gets to go from 2 hours of sleep a night to 4. It's a win on all fronts.

[Malwing]

Ssalarn wrote:

Malwing wrote:

One thing that I had came over to the thread to ask, assuming Arcforge does get delayed was whether or not it was possible to just straight get Akashic Cyborgs. The system of refluffing the Akashic classes is adequate but I'd pay top dollar to have a more 'complete' rewrites of the classes (or just one really) as cyborgs for Starfinder.

Yeah, that's definitely something I want to get out. Since the bones are already sketched out, I may be able to prioritize that.

I'm happy to hear that. Structurally Akashic classes are perfect cyborgs classes but there's a convienience in being able to hand players something and they can use it as opposed to giving them assembly instructions and hope that they don't mess up or have to walk them through the interpretation.

[The Ragi]

Ssalarn wrote:

As a result, Arcforge will be getting cut from DSP's release schedule, however, we've got an alternate publisher who's going to be picking this up and getting it in everyone's hands.

Well, happy to see it'll go on. Are you keeping the Arcforge name? I think back in the day you had some other titles you preferred.

Ssalarn wrote:

Some of you who've been following my other projects, like Akashic Mysteries, may know that there are a few projects, like a new shadow magic subsystem, the Veridian Dreams Akashic Mysteries expansion, and one or two others that had been written and released for playtest and put on hold or something similar and have been backburnered for quite some time- these products will also be released under a new banner, so keep an eye out for those!

Looking forward to see Akashic Mysteries released and more expansions for it - as well as your take on shadow magic. Good luck and good work!

[Michael Sayre]

The Ragi wrote:

Ssalarn wrote:

As a result, Arcforge will be getting cut from DSP's release schedule, however, we've got an alternate publisher who's going to be picking this up and getting it in everyone's hands.

Well, happy to see it'll go on. Are you keeping the Arcforge name? I think back in the day you had some other titles you preferred.

Lord, I know I'm going to mess up separating these quotations. Umm, I may not stick with Arcforge. The name was chosen in part to fit in with DSP's naming conventions (Bloodforge, Steelforge, etc.), so the name may go back to the drawing board. Whether that involves going back to an earlier idea or coming up with something new entirely, I haven't locked in yet. The new publisher will also have some say in that as well.

Quote:

Ssalarn wrote:

Some of you who've been following my other projects, like Akashic Mysteries, may know that there are a few projects, like a new shadow magic subsystem, the Veridian Dreams Akashic Mysteries expansion, and one or two others that had been written and released for playtest and put on hold or something similar and have been backburnered for quite some time- these products will also be released under a new banner, so keep an eye out for those!

Looking forward to see Akashic Mysteries released and more expansions for it - as well as your take on shadow magic. Good luck and good work!

Thank you! Akashic Mysteries should be out from DSP this month, and I'm looking at maintaining a quarterly release schedule of Akashic supplements through my own business, Somnambulant Gamer, after that. There will also be some degree of continued support directly through DSP, though the bulk of that will likely be handled by my good friend and lead playtester, Jacob Karpel.

For Somnambulant Gamer, I've got a bunch of new subsystems, classes, and even adventures lined up, many of them already playtested in closed playtests and ready for the public to check them out, and we're gearing up to start and maintain a monthly release schedule. We're actually getting ready to drop the Storyteller class on the 15th of this month, and the iconic Storyteller will be the narrator for our other product lines, which will consist of a class release, an archetype and feat release, a thematic release, and will wrap up with an adventure release featuring NPCs and mechanics from the associated product line.

[Milo v3]

Looking forward to Somnambulant Gamer releasing crunch.

[Michael Sayre]

Milo v3 wrote:

Looking forward to Somnambulant Gamer releasing crunch.

We're extremely excited about it as well! Our initial release will feature art from my very good friend Alice Espada, and she's cooked up some really cool pieces. I'll definitely be posting up a thread to introduce the company and the people working on our tabletop product lines in the near future.

[Air0r]

Is Somnambulant Gamer going to be releasing Arcforge?
additionally, does Somnambulant Gamer have a website?

[Michael Sayre]

Air0r wrote:

Is Somnambulant Gamer going to be releasing Arcforge?

No. We looked at it, we wanted to do it, but ultimately the minimum art costs that this project required and a few other issues led us to realize that we simply didn't have the capacity to get this in everyone's hands ahead of Starfinder and ensure it was properly updated for compatibility afterwards. As I mentioned earlier, as soon as I finish getting appropriate contracts and everything signed, I'll make an official announcement about the disposition of the product.

Quote:

Additionally, does Somnambulant Gamer have a website?

Our gaming blog is available here, but we haven't gotten our publishing page and content up yet. It should be available at the above address in time for our first release.

[Lady Funnyhat]

Will there be technology and sci-fi themed archetypes for Path of War classes? Technology themed maneuvers ("combat protocols?") used by cybernetically enhanced warriors would be great to use alongside laser guns and energy swords.

[Michael Sayre]

Lady Funnyhat wrote:

Will there be technology and sci-fi themed archetypes for Path of War classes? Technology themed maneuvers ("combat protocols?") used by cybernetically enhanced warriors would be great to use alongside laser guns and energy swords.

It's certainly something I can look at including.

[Michael Sayre]

Well, I've got some less-than-stellar news everyone. While I wait on some absolutely critical information from our potential new publisher, I'm going to need to put the Arcforge project on a temporary hiatus. I'm hoping it will only last for another week or two, but unfortunately the information I'm waiting on is critical enough that it doesn't make a lot of sense to continue developing the project in the meantime. Like, this publisher may have already dipped a toe into this area and may want me to incorporate their materials kind of thing.

Please feel free to continue using the existing materials in the meantime.

I'll be running a short playtest for a Drop Dead Studios expansion while this gets sorted out, so if you have any interest in the Vigilante class, keep an eye out for that. While you're waiting on the mechs, you can check out some cool super-hero and airship materials.

[Kersic]

Ssalarn said wrote:

The archetypes I've got in some stage of development right now are-

...
Vitalist (possibly - this one may be cut if I can't nail down the mechanics)

I immediately thought of Voltron when I saw Vitalist on the list. I want to say, "...and I'll form the head!" in a gaming session.

Fond memories of Saturday morning cartoons.

[DragoDorn]

Kersic wrote:

Ssalarn said wrote:

The archetypes I've got in some stage of development right now are-

...
Vitalist (possibly - this one may be cut if I can't nail down the mechanics)

I immediately thought of Voltron when I saw Vitalist on the list. I want to say, "...and I'll form the head!" in a gaming session.

Fond memories of Saturday morning cartoons.

Off topic but Netflix has a new Voltron series that is pretty good so far.

[Air0r]

It's been about a month, any news?

[Michael Sayre]

Air0r wrote:

It's been about a month, any news?

Unfortunately, some very sad events contributed to creating an extended delay in communications with the publisher I was working with, and I haven't wanted to start pestering them to get the ball rolling or make other arrangements until their life has settled back down a bit. Hopefully I will at least have a timeline to relay before GenCon.

[Dysfunction]

for those that still play with this, shouldn't the below:

Superior Arcforged Armor- The mech increases its Hardness by 5. This stacks with the increase granted by the Advanced Armor Plating enhancement. The mech must have the Advanced Armor Plating enhancement and must be at least 13th level to take this enhancement.

actually read:

Superior Arcforged Armor- The mech increases its Hardness by 5. This stacks with the increase granted by the Arcforged Armor enhancement. The mech must have the Arcforged Armor enhancement and must be at least 13th level to take this enhancement.

[Michael Sayre]

Dysfunction wrote:

for those that still play with this, shouldn't the below:

Superior Arcforged Armor- The mech increases its Hardness by 5. This stacks with the increase granted by the Advanced Armor Plating enhancement. The mech must have the Advanced Armor Plating enhancement and must be at least 13th level to take this enhancement.

actually read:

Superior Arcforged Armor- The mech increases its Hardness by 5. This stacks with the increase granted by the Arcforged Armor enhancement. The mech must have the Arcforged Armor enhancement and must be at least 13th level to take this enhancement.

Yeah, there was some renaming and such that happened, I'll fix it next time I'm at a machine where I have access to the document.

[Dysfunction]

I know homebrew rules are always available. but, what about adding options within the document for applying these rules to advanced core classes?

a promethean alchemist - instead of a homunculus, it's a bonded mech.
an aegis - instead of an astral suit, they get a bonded mech

Additionaly, to expand on the feats/modifications, what about any class that has inherent options like discoveries, talents, or revelations - could instead take modifications or a select available mech feats (cybernetic integration)

[khadgar567]

Dysfunction wrote:

I know homebrew rules are always available. but, what about adding options within the document for applying these rules to advanced core classes?

a promethean alchemist - instead of a homunculus, it's a bonded mech.
an aegis - instead of an astral suit, they get a bonded mech

Additionaly, to expand on the feats/modifications, what about any class that has inherent options like discoveries, talents, or revelations - could instead take modifications or a select available mech feats (cybernetic integration)

I dont think aegis gets bounded mech as main feature with out blending in to class smoothly in my idea aegis gets something like

astral frame When formed into astral frame, an astral suit resembles mech chassis of aegises choosing and is treated as such for all mechanical purposes. Should the aegis be wearing armor when forming his astral suit in this fashion, the astral suit encloses the armor and the aegis gains the benefits of only his astral suit and not that from his armor, even if his armor would confer better benefits. Forming an astral suit into this form takes a move action. The aegis gains the following free customizations: mech augmentation

[Dysfunction]

khadgar567 wrote:

Dysfunction wrote:

I know homebrew rules are always available. but, what about adding options within the document for applying these rules to advanced core classes?

a promethean alchemist - instead of a homunculus, it's a bonded mech.
an aegis - instead of an astral suit, they get a bonded mech

Additionaly, to expand on the feats/modifications, what about any class that has inherent options like discoveries, talents, or revelations - could instead take modifications or a select available mech feats (cybernetic integration)

I dont think aegis gets bounded mech as main feature with out blending in to class smoothly in my idea aegis gets something like

astral frame When formed into astral frame, an astral suit resembles mech chassis of aegises choosing and is treated as such for all mechanical purposes. Should the aegis be wearing armor when forming his astral suit in this fashion, the astral suit encloses the armor and the aegis gains the benefits of only his astral suit and not that from his armor, even if his armor would confer better benefits. Forming an astral suit into this form takes a move action. The aegis gains the following free customizations: mech augmentation

my question was more in line of if there was (un)official rules on swapping out the class features where instead of a eidolon/companion/familiar/pet that would be gained they would gain a bonded mech.

in my above example for the aegis, instead of a companion that would be swapped it would be the class's ability to gain an astral suit. the class would get the bonded mech feature instead of the suit.

this was just similar thinking to the other archetype updates that the word document has in it.

[Malwing]

I'm not sure about everyone else but... I'm glad that this is currently on the shelf. Seriously, the closer we get to Starfinder the more I think this project just needs to ferment for the inevitable Starfinder Psionics book, because why are we going to get into Space Science Fantasy without some psionics? Also at this rate who wants to play with technology Pathfinder when when a whole book where it's prominent is coming out. Better to just sit on it.

[Air0r]

So did this get handed off to another company, shelved for later, or something else?

[Michael Sayre]

Air0r wrote:

So did this get handed off to another company, shelved for later, or something else?

It's being produced through Total Party Kill, and I'm working with another designer on getting everything put together and ready to go. Because I've currently got some big contracted obligations with Drop Dead Studios to help write and develop Spheres of Might, as well as an Akashic Mysteries expansion through my own company, Matt, aka Thealtrusiticorc, is manning the helm over on GitP while I'm mostly behind the scenes helping with development and integration right now. Once I've cleared a little more room on my own plate, I'll be a little more actively involved in the final phases of playtesting before this goes off for publication.

[Red Aton]

Just asking, but is Total Party Kill still going to publish Arcforge or has it been completely scrapped with the coming release of Starfinder?

[khadgar567]

I hope scrapped until starfinder comes total party kill games basicly wreck the beutiful product like archforge and know decide to wreck path of war as well so please dsp bring back the proper archforge back i help you to fund it if you need money

[Air0r]

khadgar567 wrote:

I hope scrapped until starfinder comes total party kill games basicly wreck the beutiful product like archforge and know decide to wreck path of war as well so please dsp bring back the proper archforge back i help you to fund it if you need money

yeah, there have been some dubious design choices coming out of total party kill in relation to these projects...

[Michael Sayre]

Here's what I've got that I can tell you-

At the time that I did the initial work on Arcforge, DSP didn't have room in their budget or schedule for the release, so they released the rights back to me. Something of that size was just outside of my budget to produce with art and everything else it required, so I shopped a couple different publishers to see who wanted it. One publisher nibbled but ended up having their own backlog to deal with shortly thereafter and so it sat for a while while I wrote other books like The Luchador, Vigilantes of Skybourne, and most recently, Spheres of Might.

Matt Daley and TPK games approached me looking to pick up the project, and I signed a contract turning the work over to them. So it's theirs, and as far as I'm currently aware they've just released the first Arcforge supplement, and the one that will contain the bulk of the materials I worked on and playtested here originally is currently in layout and will serve as a kind of bridge between Pathfinder and Starfinder.

While I haven't been in contact much with the folks over at DSP recently, my understanding as of the time we parted ways was that their first dip into Starfinder is probably going to be converting psionics over first and seeing how the market goes. That makes a lot of sense since psionics is really their backbone and generally sells better than other subsystems so it would be their best foothold into the market, but that's primarily speculation and dated knowledge on my part. You'd have to reach out to one of their current principles for any current news or information.

I would expect that you're going to see a lot of quality Starfinder 3pp materials releasing very close to the same time as Starfinder, if not literally the same day, since many 3pp companies already have access to the basic rules and such and are getting ready for the release. I definitely don't think there's going to be any dearth of goodies from a variety of quality 3pp companies.

[Red Aton]

Thank you Ssalarn. Dubious design choices or not I'll be looking for it's release soon I hope. A good psionic based science/fantasy game is something I've been looking forward to for a long time. And once again thanks.

[Dysfunction]

I just noticed the word doc has been updated, its now 136 pages!!