Regeneration + Ferocity...


Advice


Did it really breaks the game?
Okay, here is the plot:
You are a Half-Orc Master Summoner with Ferocious Summons and Expanded Summon Monster feats (and the others feat you need, no matter lvl). You summon a Kyton, Augur wich have regeneration 2.
Now with a Con 16 (Augmented Summoning), and considering enemies don't have the attack type to stop Regeneration, what will happens when his HP are at -17, would it die? OR he will continue to fight, despite his HP are -1000???
Because, FEROCITY says: "A creature with ferocity still dies when its hit point total reaches a negative amount equal to its Constitution score."
But REGENERATION says: "they cannot die as long as their regeneration is still functioning".

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Interesting issue, personally, I would have them keep fighting until at -constitution score, then puff out of there, as if killed. This rule is actually clarified in the D20 PFSRD, the summoned creature disappears at -constitution score.


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In a home game for non-summons (say a troll PC or something) I would say ferocity only keeps you up to the point you would normally die, then your body is too mangled to effectively move and your unconscious and regenerating.


It's not broken unless you're cheesing something off infinite HP. They're still staggered and taking constant damage.

GURPS treats -5x HP as death because your body is so physically damaged that no living creature could survive. It also treats -10x HP as death because your body is physically destroyed, gone, ash, crushed, cut to pieces, or disintegrated in another way. This could be worth using.

d20PFSRD wrote:

Summoning: a summoning spell instantly brings a creature or object to a place you designate. When the spell ends or is dispelled, a summoned creature is instantly sent back to where it came from, but a summoned object is not sent back unless the spell description specifically indicates this. A summoned creature also goes away if it is killed or if its hit points drop to 0 or lower, but it is not really dead. It takes 24 hours for the creature to reform, during which time it can't be summoned again.

When the spell that summoned a creature ends and the creature disappears, all the spells it has cast expire. A summoned creature cannot use any innate summoning abilities it may have.

FAQ wrote:

Half-Orc, Ferocious Summons: How does this ability work if a summoned creature disappears when it reaches 0 hp?

The summoned creature does not disappear at 0 hp, instead it disappears when killed (when its current hp get to a negative amount equal to its Constitution score).

Silver Crusade

Have you ever seen a Nycar? It's an improved familiar, which can take Mauler archetype, which can be affected by Form Of Dragon III, which can be affected by Duplicate Familiar.

Have fun!


FAQ wrote:

Half-Orc, Ferocious Summons: How does this ability work if a summoned creature disappears when it reaches 0 hp?

The summoned creature does not disappear at 0 hp, instead it disappears when killed (when its current hp get to a negative amount equal to its Constitution score).

Oh, that's very clear. I haven't seen that. Thank you much.


zanbato13 wrote:

Have you ever seen a Nycar? It's an improved familiar, which can take Mauler archetype, which can be affected by Form Of Dragon III, which can be affected by Duplicate Familiar.

Have fun!

OK, but why Nycar? Why other familiars cannot be affected by that spell?


Remember that Constructs and Undead and other such would not benefit from Regeneration or the Ferocious Summons feat, as these creatures do not possess a Constitution score, and are automatically destroyed at 0 HP (or less).

That being said, I don't see this as being problematic or gamebreaking. Summons themselves are already gamebreaking anyway (as is the original Summoner class); tacking on pseudo-Diehard isn't gonna really make it any worse than what it already is, a class that invalidates all Martials with a single class feature.

Liberty's Edge

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The Nycar has regeneration broken by cold iron and has ferocity. Regeneration unlike damage reduction is not beaten by high enhancement bonuses so that familiar is surprisingly tough to kill. You basically need to have a cold iron weapon or it will fight forever.


zanbato13 wrote:

Have you ever seen a Nycar? It's an improved familiar, which can take Mauler archetype, which can be affected by Form Of Dragon III, which can be affected by Duplicate Familiar.

Have fun!

Nope, Nycars and other Improved Familiars cannot be maulers. The mauler archetype replaces the speak with animals of its kind ability, and Improved Familiars don't gain that ability, so they can't replace it.


I think this works. Just means that you need a some other way to get rid of it. Dispel magic works just fine.

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