Polymorph any object and others 7°\8° level polymorph spells


Rules Questions


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Can I use PaO to duplicate a level 8 spell with the possibility of a permanency effect (such as giant form 2 dragon form 3) or can i exceed the effect of greater polymorph (such as Giant form 1)? By RAW id say yes, but objectively it would be far stronger than other spells of the same level, maybe better than a 9° level spell.

What do you think about?


If you use PAO to replicate something that's already done by a different spell, then you are basically using it as Greater Polymorph. The difference will be how long it lasts, determined by the chart in PAO.

So, no I think the best you can do is form of the dragon 1, plant shape 2, elemental body 3, or beast shape 4 if you're going to assume a form that qualifies for one of those.

Otherwise you're using PAO that makes it more powerful than other 8th or 9th level spells of the polymorph family which makes no sense.

Basically, if it would otherwise require a different 8th level polymorph spell to accomplish, you probably shouldn't be able to replicate it that way mechanically.

You can turn someone into a dragon, but not as form of the dragon 3.


True, but in this way you are limiting the spell, the Raw says that it works like polymorph greater BUT.. and spell can ALSO be used to duplicate the effects of baleful polymorph...

So, where is the edge between the the OPness and the complete exploitation of the spell?

Because what happen if the mage\sorcerer whith a pseudodragon as familiar decide to turn it into a huge golden dragon forever? And then the melees of the party whant to became all trolls to gain For, Cos, Natural armor, dark vison and regeneration forever?

Considering even the possibility to transform the ground in lava and every other option...isn't a bit too much for a 8° level spell?


It specifically says that the duration is limited under certain circumstances. All of those examples have a limited duration. Period.


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Why not?

Human to troll same reign (animals +5) same type (mammals +2), same or lower int (yes +2) = 9 = forever

Pseudodragon to dragon same reign (animals +5) same type (reptiles +2), related (yes little dragon to huge dragon +2) = 9 = forever

Even if as master you disagree with a point is still 1 cast each week


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avatar-84 wrote:

True, but in this way you are limiting the spell, the Raw says that it works like polymorph greater BUT.. and spell can ALSO be used to duplicate the effects of baleful polymorph...

So, where is the edge between the the OPness and the complete exploitation of the spell?

Because what happen if the mage\sorcerer whith a pseudodragon as familiar decide to turn it into a huge golden dragon forever? And then the melees of the party whant to became all trolls to gain For, Cos, Natural armor, dark vison and regeneration forever?

Considering even the possibility to transform the ground in lava and every other option...isn't a bit too much for a 8° level spell?

As I said, when using the spell in a beneficial way (such as turning someone into a dragon) it works like Greater Polymorph. This causes you to turn into a dragon as form of the dragon 1, granting you everything form of the dragon 1 does (nothing more). It will last an amount of time based upon the POA chart though. So you aren't permanently a huge dragon. You are permanently a medium dragon, with some decent but not ridiculous effectively permanently bonuses.

But do remember, it's not "actually" permanent. A dispel magic will remove the effect of POA. It's not duration instantaneous, which would make it a permanent non-magical effect. It's duration is permanent, making it a a permanent magic effect. Capable of being suppressed by antimagic or being removed via dispel.

As for form of the giant to turn into a troll, that will work. Greater Polymorph doesn't mention form of the giant, but looking at the levels of the spells available it is reasonable to make form of the giant 1 available through greater polymorph. This is pretty good because it gives you regen 5, but again it can be dispelled.

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