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| 3 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
If a shaman's familiar takes an archetype like protector that gives up the familiars ability to deliver touch spells can it still do it with the Shaman's "Deliver Touch Spells (Su)" ability?
I did a quick check and it seems the shaman is the only caster to have this ability as part of its class and not just part of the familiar growth. This is also important because shamans have more powerful ability that allows them to deliver hexes even if they are not touching the familiar initially.
*edit* Title is Changed
The Shaman's Spirit Animal is described here (SRD)
By communing with the incredible powers of her spirit, the shaman forges a cherished bond with one specific servant of that spirit—known as a spirit animal. A spirit animal is a creature chosen by a shaman to serve as a conduit, allowing her to more fully access the magic of her spirit on a daily basis. The shaman's spirit animal also grants her special powers. This ability uses the same rules as the wizard's arcane bond class feature and is treated as a familiar, except as noted below.
The text below this paragraph has no mention of loosing the Deliver Touch Spells of the familiar.
Referencing the SRD for the Arcane Bond...Rules for bonded items are given below, while rules for familiars are located here: Familiars.
Referencing the SRD for Familiars...
Deliver Touch Spells (Su): If the master is 3rd level or higher, a familiar can deliver touch spells for him. If the master and the familiar are in contact at the time the master casts a touch spell, he can designate his familiar as the “toucher.” The familiar can then deliver the touch spell just as the master would. As usual, if the master casts another spell before the touch is delivered, the touch spell dissipates.
This is what the Familiar Archetype may replace.
The Shaman's Deliver Touch Spells is described here (SRD)
If a shaman is 3rd level or higher, her spirit animal can deliver touch spells or hexes for her. If the shaman and the spirit animal are in contact at the time the shaman casts a touch spell, she can designate her animal as the "toucher." The spirit animal can then deliver the touch spell just as the shaman would. If the shaman casts another spell before the touch is delivered, the touch spell dissipates. If the shaman activates a hex, her spirit animal can be used to make the touch; she doesn't have to be in contact with the animal to use this ability with hexes.
This is a separate class ability to Spirit Animal.
The archetype affects Spirit Animal(Deliver Touch Spells), not Deliver Touch Spells.
RAW, allowed.
RAI, probably not.
/cevah
I think I agree with Cevah's conclusion, but am hitting FAQ...
Incidentally, this issue seems to be similar to ones I'm seeing in the Unsworn Shaman Archetype, in that functionality gets spread across different class abilities, which creates problems with anything interfacing with/altering specific class abilities, since the functionality isn't "fully contained" within single abilities.
In this case, the additional Shaman ability's granting of Deliver Touch Spells is TOTALLY SUPERFLUOUS in normal circumstances, so I don't believe it should be written as is, that funcionality can come from Familiar ability (or not, if you use an Archetype replacing it), and the unique Shaman ability should just be "Deliver Touch Hexes" and only cover Hex functionality. So this could very well be an ERRATA issue, and that superfluous wording should be removed (or a FAQ issued stating that in the meantime).
IMHO, this also ties into other issues with Shaman familiar, namely how it's replacement of rules covering selection of familiar works re: expanded familiar options (Improved Familiar or Familiar Archetypes).
I don't see any problem with taking a Familiar Archetype with that, but once you take it, are you prevented from changing that Archetype (or choice of non-Archetype'd Familiar) with future "replacement" Familiars? i.e. an Archetype of Familiar counts as it's own creature type (just as "Giant X" counts as creature type), thus locking you into that Archetype. Not sure, though it would be weird if you could freely change Archetype while not being able to change anything else re: creature type.
Further, is Improved Familiar effectively useless for Shamans, despite qualifying for it, because they can't change the Familiar type after they make their decision at 1st level?
Since Improved Familiar includes Celestial/Fiendish/Entropic/Resolute creatures, you can get a templated spirit animal.
/cevah
Going to agree that the shaman ability to deliver touch spells/hexes is separate and redundant to the ability of the familiar. This feels like a natural oversight since there were so few familiar archetypes when the shaman was published. I'd expect a FAQ some day to clarify one way or the other.
I'm curious if others rule the familiar can still deliver hexes if it trades out deliver spells.