Shark Toothed Maw

[Jarrett Sigler]

Shark Toothed Maw
Aura strong evocation; CL 11th
Slot shoulders; Price 9,600 gp; Weight 8 lbs.
Description
The Shark Toothed Maw is an scintillating cloak of interlocking silver and ivory wedges shot with multi-colored rows of diamonds. The cloak's tessellated pattern would look right at home on a stage harlequin. On closer inspection, the ivory wedges can be easily confused with shark teeth.

The Cloak's exotic beauty hides a deadly function — the wedges can be drawn from the cloak and used as +1 daggers. The enchanted cloak automatically regrows any wedge drawn in this way in one round. Daggers drawn from the Shark Tooth Maw crumble after one round after they leave the cloak or the possessor's hand.

In addition, the wearer can launch an area effect burst of showering blades by spinning the cloak. Spinning is a full round action, during which the wearer may a 5 foot step. Each creature in a 15 foot radius of the wearer must make a Reflex Save (DC10 + the wear's ranks in perform [Dance] or Acrobatics) or are automatically struck by 1d6 +1 daggers. Using this burst of blades depletes the cloak's power for one hour.

Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, abundant ammunition, blade barrier; Cost 4,800 gp

[Brigg]

Jarrett,

I'm glad to see you made it into the top 32. I'm sorry I didn't help as much as I could have with workshopping with you. But it appears you got all the help you needed. Now, here you are!

I did like your item, and voted for it consistently! It's not something I would use myself, but that doesn't make it any less well-designed! Congratulations!

Now, show us an awesome map!

[Alanya]

I liked this, and managed to see it often, especially early on before the culls. (At that point, it was like a breath of fresh air to see a well written, well thought out item!) Congratulations!

[Jarrett Sigler]

Thank you both for your kind words and votes. :) I am really proud of this, and I really appreciate the opportunity.

Thank you agian.

[Kalindlara]

First, congratulations for making it in!

Jarrett Sigler wrote:

Shark Toothed Maw

Aura strong evocation; CL 11th
Slot shoulders; Price 9,600 gp; Weight 8 lbs.
Description
The Shark Toothed Maw is an scintillating cloak of interlocking silver and ivory wedges shot with multi-colored rows of diamonds. The cloak's tessellated pattern would look right at home on a stage harlequin. On closer inspection, the ivory wedges can be easily confused with shark teeth.

The Cloak's exotic beauty hides a deadly function — the wedges can be drawn from the cloak and used as +1 daggers. The enchanted cloak automatically regrows any wedge drawn in this way in one round. Daggers drawn from the Shark Tooth Maw crumble after one round after they leave the cloak or the possessor's hand.

In addition, the wearer can launch an area effect burst of showering blades by spinning the cloak. Spinning is a full round action, during which the wearer may a 5 foot step. Each creature in a 15 foot radius of the wearer must make a Reflex Save (DC10 + the wear's ranks in perform [Dance] or Acrobatics) or are automatically struck by 1d6 +1 daggers. Using this burst of blades depletes the cloak's power for one hour.

Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, abundant ammunition, blade barrier; Cost 4,800 gp

I like this one; I voted it up almost every time. That said... some constructive critique.

The name forced me to double-check it every time. While I see what you were going for, it was a little confusing.

The spinning power could use some tweaks as well. The wording is a little confusing in places. If the wearer 5-foot steps, is everyone that was in the zone at either point hit by the blades? What adds to the damage of the daggers? That said, I like the flavor, and tying the DC to those skill ranks was a nice touch.

Good luck in future rounds!

[Elizabeth Leib]

This one was on my keep list. Shark teeth daggers make for cool flavor. Congrats on making it into the Top 32 and good luck in the rest of the competition.

[Grumpus]

This one had some cool visuals and got my votes most of the time in the early voting period, but as culls happened, I found myself not voting for it much.

Quote:

On closer inspection, the ivory wedges can be easily confused with shark teeth.

Wouldn't closer inspection decrease the confusion of what the wedges actually are?

Also a few odd wordings like "the wear's ranks" and "wearer may a 5 foot step" had me confused.

On the save you add the wearers ranks to the DC, should it just be the ranks or did you intend to use the full skill bonus (including the bonus +3 for class skill, and the skills' stat bonus?)

Anyhow, congrats and good luck next round!

[Nick Wasko]

Congratulations, Jarrett!

This definitely has mojo - immediately reminded me of the Razor Coast, which is a good thing. I agree with Grumpus that some of your phrasing could be tightened up, but that's a small point compared to working with a strong core concept.

Looking forward to seeing what you bite off in round 2!

[Jacob W. Michaels]

Congrats, Jarrett. You've come a long way from your days in the Blazing 9 thread; you're template use looks just about perfect from what I can see.

I'm impressed you managed to make a Superstar item using abundant ammunition; I thought that spell was just a trap that competitors kept falling into. :)

As others have said, make sure you give your work good proof-reads. A typo could send you home later in the competition.

Best of luck in Round 2!

[Jarrett Sigler]

Thank you so much!

I'm honored to have impressed a Jacob! After re-reading that item I feel a little embarrassed that about the "wear's" typo.

Thank you each one of you that comment on it.

I had a lot of good teachers in the Blazing 9 thread. Making it this far; I feel is a testament to the feed-back and constructive nature of the community.

I know without everyone's guidance, I may not have made it this far.

Thank you!!!!

[Lucky Pips]

Congrats on making the top 32!

I like this item, especially its concept. The misleading item is a nice concept. As noted the wording was off at places. The only large complaint I had was the aura strength. still, an overall strong entry that would just need an editing pass to pick up a few things to be print ready. Look forward to seeing your map.

Best of luck in all future rounds!

[Jarrett Sigler]

Grumpus wrote:

On the save you add the wearers ranks to the DC, should it just be the ranks or did you intend to use the full skill bonus (including the bonus +3 for class skill, and the skills' stat bonus?)

I have a few minutes, so I'll answer this question, and others that come to me. I chose to use JUST the ranks, as there is an inherent limit to how many ranks someone can attain.

I had this idea that the wearer could "jump and dance", and the act of dancing would cause the shark teeth to fall out, as Shark teeth fall out of a shark's mouth very easily. So naturally the skill and the ability to twist could turn this feature into a weapon.

However, skill bonus's in Pathfinder can get phenomenally high. So at first, I decided to reward this by making it a Perform or Acrobatics checks, and that would produce a number of daggers thrown at a target.

The math got fuzzy REALLY fast.

Then I decided maybe it should be a cone and a reflex save. Still did the Check; and the math got even fuzzier, especially trying to predict some of the DC's.

I went with ranks. Ranks still reward the wearer for being skilled; however, there is an inherent limit to how many ranks the player can have at any given point. This, paired with the fact that it made the formula really simple math, made me believe this was the best choice.

It also addresses the idea that Save DC's for items tend to be low.

The clunky wording about allowing the wearer to make a 5 foot step while using the major ability and where exactly the burst was, that could have been worded better. When I re-read the item during voting there had been enough time (and enough other items) between when I submitted it, and when I read it to really see the wording errors. These errors could have been caught by one more editing pass; and I'm really embarrassed by them.

However, I'm very proud that despite the clunky wording, people saw mojo and potential. Once again, thank you all. If you think of any other ways I can improve as a designer, please, feel free to let me know.

And no, I'm not sure when I'll stop thanking people. I'm overwhelmed with joy.

[Template Fu]

I will be starting my reviews soon, and they can be bumpy at times, so here's a starter for 10 on Template ...

You nailed it!

My god, the Fu is actually starving this year - very well done.

Full review to follow in due course.

[Jeff Harris 982]

As promised yesterday, the GB&U this year is courtesy of me rather than GM_solsprial (he is busy drawing furiously). So without further ado, our amazing and awesome top 32+4 get the first set of The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly critiques, and then on to everyone else who requested a critique in the CMI official thread, or in my shiny The GB&U Season 9 thread.

Shark Toothed Maw

The Good: Neat description, and some excellent wording choices in said description.

The Bad: The name, the name does not mesh with the item for me, the name to me implies something vastly different than the item we get.

The Ugly: An endless supply of +1 daggers is no joke, and without the need for a blink back belt or returning, that is a pretty good deal. While it was smart to make the daggers non-perm, even a highish limit of max daggers created per day would have made this even better, I would be hesitant to give this item out to a well build thrower PC without some limit of daggers per day.

[Brian J. Fruzen]

Well done earning a place in the Top 32, Jarrett! Here’s some of my thoughts on your item:

• An fun idea, and one I can easily see capturing the imaginations of the players.
• In the hands of the antagonist, it will capture their screams as well!
• I agree with others in having trouble with the name. “Shark Toothed” made me think “sword” and then “Maw” stumped me. I never would have guess it was a cloak.
• There’s a good opening description here, but the opening two paragraphs should have been pruned quite a bit more with the editor’s pen. “On closer inspection,” “can be easily confused with…” and “hides a deadly function…” are all unnecessary phrases that rightfully draw a lot of criticism from the snark thread. Don’t waste words. The sooner you tell the reader what the item actually looks like, and what it actually does, the better.
• “Would look right at home on a stage harlequin.” Don’t tell me where it would look good. I’m the GM and I’ll put it wherever I want to put it. As with the advice above, all I’m looking for you to do it tell me what the item looks like physically, and what the item does. I don’t need you to tell the story of how or where to use it.
• Unlimited +1 daggers does seem a little too good for an item that costs less than 5,000gp to make. I’d be concerned about players getting one that early in their career, but I do like the idea of drawing daggers from the mesh of interwoven shark teeth.
• The spinning twirl of blades is a fun image. I actually envisioned it cinematically as you described it, looking down at it from above as it twirls, doling out lacerations and painting the floors with blood as the wearer dances. Very evocative idea.
• I like that the reflex save uses a variable save dependent on the wielders skill with the item. I know this is unusual for Paizo, but it’s a direction I don't mind seeing items heading. Integration with skills makes sense.
• Does the 15-foot radius start before the 5-foot step, after, or does it follow the wielder as they move? This needs to be clarified.

There's promise in this item, but it needs another editing pass or two. It puts an evocative image in my head though, and that ability will serve you well in Round 2.

[Jarrett Sigler]

Brain, Jeff, thank you! Also thank you Template Fu for when you bring the Critique, I'm honored that my template passes the standards!

I'm ever learning, and to address more questions!

This was the inspiration for the idea of the "maw". As that is a Shark's maw. It looks to me at least, very silky, and mobile. Constantly regrown loose teeth knitted in the fabric of loose gums.

However; I see that my word choice misdirected readers.

The +1 daggers were a late addition. Originally, the daggers were going to be just normal daggers non-magical daggers (not even masterwork). I changed them to magic to bypass magic DR, as I had a brief stint of question who would purchase or craft the item if it couldn't break DR, daggers being only a d4 in damage.

I see that now as an ill-conceived change. Thank you for bringing it to my attention! I really appreciate it.

[Victoria Jaczko]

Welcome to the Top 32, Jarrett! Your submission has overcome the magic item horde and the many culls to emerge at the top of the heap. Congratulations!

I'll be one of the judges for this first round, offering my humble commentary which I hope will be helpful to you moving into Round 2. I will be considering each item based on three factors: functionality (does the item fill a useful niche within the rules?), mojo ("wow" factor--would I point out this item to someone else, or immediately get some cool concept to go with it?), and writing (is the formatting and text clear and error free? Is the prose interesting and evocative?)

Combining these elements successfully is, I feel, key to defining that elusive "Superstar" quality that we all want to see.

So you know what I'm looking for, now let's move on to the good bit: your shark toothed maw!

Functionality and Usefulness
Your original instinct to make the daggers nonmagical was a good one. As it was to make sure they crumbled within a round. Your inner balancing agent was whispering to you. :)

DR is not much of a concern with this item. This is not an item I see being used as a primary attack to take down bosses or tough mobs. I see this as an incredibly useful item to have in reserve for 1) those times when you've been disarmed, 2) those times you want to show off your knife-throwing skills, and 3) primarily, for those times when you need to take out a bunch of mooks. Mooks don't tend to have DR. The pricing is pretty good for nonmagical daggers. It is not good for an eternal supply of magical daggers.

I am not a fan of the 5-foot step during the spin, as it messes with the radius of the ability. Was it intended to mean the wearer could take a 5-foot step before or after the spin?

Basing the DC on ranks in Perform/Acrobatics is unusual, but I'm not sure I dislike it. It lends the cloak to particular style of character to get the best use from it. I feel like, by the rules, the wearer would probably need to make ranged touch attacks. But I can see the argument not to, and I do like the effort to reach for something different.

As written, the daggers would also spray allies. That's been kind of a thing this year and I'm not crazy about it. I was happy to see friendly fire die after 3.5.

Cloaks always seem to be popular during Superstar, so making them stand out is hard. I'm digging the cloak bandolier/machine gun combination. There is precedent for using cloaks offensively, and combining it with the knives makes sense, especially in relation to the shark-tooth theme.

The Cool Factor/Mojo
There's creativity here to be sure. It seems still unpolished to me, but you're obviously trying new things and going outside the expected.

It takes some vision to take the really specific theme built around the way shark's teeth fall out and regrow and make a cloak out of it. The regrowing daggers was alright by itself, but going from that to "if you jump around in this thing enough, everybody gets sprayed with teeth" is a weird and cool design choice.

The skill ranks adding to DC are something I'm not sure I get behind, but I like that you're trying to look at the rules in a different perspective. That's where the mojo leaves grow.

Prose and Editing
This is where I had the most issues with your item, honestly.

The "stage harlequin" line should be omitted; it is too casual for this type of text and will annoy people who don't want to be told what to do. :) The "easily confused" line also should be reworded. Things don't tend to get easily confused on closer inspection. It's fine just to say they resemble shark teeth.

Your mechanics language is mostly OK, but you need to work on style. Shark toothed maw should be italicized in text and only capitalized at the start of a sentence. "Cloak" should not be capitalized in a sentence. Hyphenate 5-foot, 15-foot, etc. "Save" is not capitalized in "Reflex Save". There should be a space between DC and the number.

You show some capacity for evocative writing, so don't weaken it by grabbing clichés--"exotic beauty hides a deadly function".

Overall
You show potential here, but you've got to master your editing and language fast in order to keep up, going forward. Edit everything. Whatever you write, edit it until you're out of ideas, and then read it out loud a few times, edit more, and then read it backwards if you have to. Compare it to other text similar to what you're doing. That's probably the best way to internalize style.

Do listen to your instincts. As beneficial as workshopping can be, it can also get in the way of your own gut reasons for doing things a particular way.

Keep working your creativity. Do keep learning. There's a lot of opportunity for growth in this contest.

I am honored to have been allowed to provide feedback this year. I look forward to your entry for Round 2, Jarrett, and hope to see a map with your creative reach in it.

Congratulations again!

[frank gori]

Okay now that we have a few days before Top 16 reveals I've decided to comment on my competitors work. First, congrats one being a people's choice top 36. To me connecting more directly with the pathfinder community as an audience is even more impressive then clicking for a group of judges.

Saw this one as a contender right away. Infinite blades is a bit much but the overall concept of the teeth growing back like a sharks had me behind this one much more often then not. Nice job and good luck with next round.

[Kigvan]

I have to admit this one didn't really wow me when I read it.
I don't really care for the unlimited throwing ammunition thing in general.

The name and description didn't quite connect completely for me either.

I do really like tying the spin to skills (and like you explained skill ranks is a good way to do this) though and think that that aspect of the item is very good.

Congratulations and Good Luck!

[R D Ramsey]

Voted this one both up and down.

There's some good ideas here. The inspiration of shark's teeth is quite solid. The spinning aspect is a great visual.

The execution wasn't quite there for me though. The name felt very off. I'm not as worried about infinite +1 daggers as some are (I don't think it would matter much in practice), but it's a very fine line of balance you're walking there. And overall, I don't think it quite lived up to the inspiration. The core idea is something very cool, but the actual effects are kinda so-so.

[Lucus Palosaari]

Jarrett Sigler wrote:

Shark Toothed Maw

Congratulations for making it into the Top 32!

Seeing as that's how I had to start this, you're already a potential "Superstar" so keep that in mind!

That out of the way, I'm going to treat your item the same as if I saw it in the Critique My Item Thread, which means I'll be using the following comments, and assuming you're submitting this item as your "sample" for an Open Call to Fat Goblin Game's Call to Arms book line.

Feel free to disagree with me and DEFEND YOUR CHOICES!

Revision Needed — First up, the "shark-toothed maw" name then the description, with the comment of whom it is for all don't go together in my mind. A stage harlequin with a diamond/ivory/silver studded cloak? They look like shark teeth? Then you get to the assumed primary ability -- this is a cloak of +1 throwing daggers for the cost of either not quite 5 +1 daggers or a little more than a +1 returning dagger. Only it's much better than a returning dagger because I can throw a ton of them. Then you get a "one more thing" tagged on!?!

[Jessica Catalan]

Congrats on making the top 32!

As mentioned by others above, I don't really like the name of your item, and your descriptions and prose could use further editing. The price is a bit low, as well.

But onto the good! I like the theme for this item - the shark's teeth falling out and regrowing. Very cool! I love the way the cloak looks, and how that functions with it's abilities. I really like that the wedges from the cloak become daggers and regrow themselves (I'm not really concerned with that becoming abused too much but I suppose making them masterwork would help with that). I really like the final ability, and the visuals involved. I dislike the 5-foot step bit, but really like that the DC is scaled by the ranks in dance or acrobatics. Very cool.

I enjoyed your item and voted for it quite a few times.

Best of luck in the next round.

[Jarrett Sigler]

Hello!!! Hey, thank you so much for the critiques!

With all this feedback, I have so much to learn from. Thank you all so very much!!!

I can see where people are going with the description, the maw, shark theme and the magical daggers are a bit much.

Thank you all for the congradulations. I am so proud that I made it this far.

[Browman]

The name doesn't really seem to fit the item, I kept thinking it was a weapon.

The cost also seems too low for endless throwable magic weapons.

Overall I do really like the concept.

[Neil Spicer]

Jarrett! Welcome..to the Top 32!

As one of the judges who'll be along for the entire ride of the competition, it's my duty (and pleasure) to offer up some commentary on your winning submission, as well as a bit of advice for the challenges to come. First up...your item...the shark toothed maw...

Okay. The name bugs me for a couple of reasons. If you're going to use "shark toothed" to describe a maw as an adjective, it's "shark-toothed" as a hyphenated word. Secondly, if you're going to make a magic cloak, call it the cloak of the shark-toothed maw. Don't get cute and give it some kind of nebulous name where we don't even know what we're dealing with. Think of your item like it appears on a table of wondrous items organized by price. And, you're a player looking for a magic cloak in your price range. You scroll along that table and there's nothing about shark toothed maw that says, "Hey, you should stop here and check out this totally awesome magic cloak to spend your hard-earned coin on..." Instead, you scroll right past that thing and hit cloak of the manta ray or something that at least has "cloak" in the actual name.

Mojo. Okay. Now we're picking up steam. A cloak that gives you shark-toothed daggers perfect for throwing (since they're no good after the round you pull them), and you can spin in place and pretty much lacerate anyone standing near you. That's got some mojo...if, you can pull it off mechanically.

Cinematic. Yeah. You've got the visuals here in a big way, and that obviously captured the imagination of the voters, because they all saw a cool cloak full of ever-flowing magical daggers and an area effect burst for a last resort power.

Usefulness. It's useful for combat. That's pretty much it. No defensive mechanism. No skill boosting. No utility powers. Like a shark, it's bred for one purpose.

Mechanics. Here's where it falls apart. On multiple levels. It's definitely a mistake (from a pricing perspective at the very least) to grant free-flowing magical daggers. Compare this to just the cost for a +1 returning dagger and then recognize that the 1/day area effect burst for 1d6 daggers on a failed Reflex save goes even further than that. That's essentially how you should have priced this. A base +1 returning dagger and then a whole extra wondrous item with a 1/day comparable spell effect that can blast everyone around you with 1d6 x 1d4+1 damage on a failed Reflex save. And don't forget to multiply the final cost of the item because you've glommed on another power. Bottom line, the cloak is way underpriced for what it's doing.

Secondly, I am not a fan of the increasing DC based on the number of Perform (dance) or Acrobatics skill ranks possessed by the wearer. Why? Because it means the item works differently depending on who's wearing it. Magic items aren't designed that way, because it screws up the pricing. For instance, lets say a 5th level bard has this and he's got a full 5 ranks in Perform (dance). What's he going to pay for a cloak that gives him unlimited daggers and an area effect burst at Reflex DC 15? Okay, what about the same bard, but he only has 1 rank in Perform (dance) and now the cloak only provides unlimited daggers and an area effect burst at Reflex DC 11? It's not worth as much to the latter than the former, right? So, it shouldn't cost him as much, should it? Sure, he might improve his skill ranks, but you never know. Even if two different characters...say, the same bard from before a rogue with Acrobatics walks into the magic shoppe and examines this cloak...assuming they have varying skill ranks for applying to the burst effect's Reflex save, they'd each value it differently. This is why magic items need to be designed with static DCs. It's so you can consistently price them for purchase by PCs, NPCs, etc., regardless of level or skill rank. And, if you vary it, you really don't know what the item is truly worth to anyone. It's on a case by case basis, because you've assigned a variable that determines how effective it is or isn't. Don't do this.

Polish. Ugh. This really lets me down in a lot of ways. It's obvious you applied yourself to following the template. Spell names are italicized and alphabetized in the construction requirements, and you've got all the statistical information in its right place. But the description text is a mess. When you reference your own item name, you always lowercase it and italicize it like the magic item it is. There's passive voice in here, which limits how evocative the item's description can come across. As others have mentioned, you're using needless, rambling language that's getting in the way. This thing needs a good trimming, and imagine all the room that'll create for better description and maybe a bit more versatility in powers and effects. There are also places where you've capitalized words that don't need to be (Cloak), failed to capitalize game terms when they do (perform [Dance]), and places where you've completely left out words and failed to hyphenate them (may a 5 foot step).

I'm not going to pull any punches. This is big-time sloppy work. This, paired with the mechanical concerns, would have absolutely bounced this item from consideration for Top 32 if the judges were reviewing them in their normal capacity. But things were done differently this year, and the mojo of your item appealed to the voting public, so they put you through. Now, here's what that means, you need to take advantage of this opportunity and squeeze every ounce out of the crash-course education in game design it's going to provide you. Challenge yourself to improve every round. Push yourself to identify, recognize, and fix these kinds of problems in your designs going forward. You do that, and you'll start to win me over.

Other than that, this item is overpowered for its price, has significant writing issues, likewise with its mechanical issues, and has a lot of sloppy missteps in presentation and professional polish. But, it's still got a great core concept. It's the execution of that concept that lets you down. So, you need to shore up those areas and show people you can learn and improve. Regardless, I offer you my congratulations on making the Top 32, and I look forward to seeing what you've got for us in Round 2.

My two cents,
--Neil

[Amanda Hamon]

Hello, Jarrett, and welcome to the Top 32!

I'll be a judge for this round, and I'm honored and pleased to offer feedback on your shark toothed maw. I hope this feedback provides some helpful insight to you as you move forward in the competition.

As an assistant developer at Paizo, I'll offer you three levels of commentary that approximate the development process: some first impressions, a deeper look, and some measured feedback.

So, let's get started!

First impressions: Your item's name certainly is evocative, but it's not one that necessarily indicates that this is a cloak. In fact, going on the name alone, I was expecting a weapon. There's also the rather important editing quibble that, as a compound adjective, "shark-toothed" needs a hyphen.

Deeper look: Neil has done an excellent job breaking down the major mechanical and editing issues here, so I won't rehash.

Measured feedback: When considered individually, each little thing we've pointed out might not seem like that big of a deal. But, all told, a great idea (which you have here!) is exciting, but it won't carry you very far if there are major mechanical, writing, and editing issues in your design work. It's so key to realize exactly how much those things will affect you in this contest; and as a freelancer, it's an even bigger deal, because in that arena you've quite literally got one shot to impress you developer. I know it can be overwhelming trying to get everything perfect, but this is your opportunity to show folks that you're taking this feedback seriously and taking your work to the next level.

That said, thanks for reading, and best of luck in the contest!

[John Leclaire]

To be honest, I'm still not sure where I stand on this item. Interesting flavour, but the mechanics felt a little overpowered.

Regardless, congratulations on making it through Round 1 and good luck in the rest of the competition!