So, let's say I have a +5 Defending weapon with Greater Magic Weapon cast on top of it for +5 bonus.
If I decide to allocate the weapon +5 bonus to my AC with the defending propriety, does my weapon still retains the +5 bonus granted by the spell?
In other words, is the bonus from the spell separated by the one of the weapon itself? And Does Defending only applyes to the weapon one?
Note: under this interpretation, a +1 Defending weapon with a +5 worth of Greater Magic Weapon would only be able to add 1 to you AC.
Second Note: I'm not interested in RAI since i'm never going to do it nor allow it in my home games, and I don't play PFS. Just interested in the RAW answer for accademic purposes. That does'n mean you are not free to discuss it in this thread if you really want to, but I would ask you to please try and look it from a more "legalistic" point of view.
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The whole question is moot. You can't stack a magic weapon's enhancement bonus with the enhancement bonus from Greater Magic Weapon. You only get the higher of the two Enhancement bonuses.
As for your "Note" this should be possible. You have a +1 Defending weapon and hit it with +5 from Greater Magic Weapon. This enhances it to be a +5 Defending weapon for the duration of the spell and you should treat it as such, using all +5 for your AC if you wish to do so.
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The whole question is moot. You can't stack a magic weapon's enhancement bonus with the enhancement bonus from Greater Magic Weapon. You only get the higher of the two Enhancement bonuses
Never intended that they stack, actually the opposite. They each go their own way and you use the bigger one at the moment of the attack. Think of it like having a +5 arrow on a +5 defending bow. OFC bows can't have the defending propriety, but it should be a good analogy.
Edit: Or even a third case, Body Wrap of Mighty strike +5 with a +4 defending Amulet of Mighty Fist.
The whole question is moot. You can't stack a magic weapon's enhancement bonus with the enhancement bonus from Greater Magic Weapon. You only get the higher of the two Enhancement bonusesNever intended that they stack, actually the opposite. They each go their own way and you use the bigger one at the moment of the attack.
Except it doesn't work that way.
You have the +5 defender, and you cast GMW on it for +5, so first you resolve that. The +5 enhancement bonus doesn't stack with the +5 enhancement bonus so you take the greater of the two (they're equal) and you have a +5 defender.
Once that is resolved, you make a decision each round about whether you're going to use none, some, or all of that +5 for AC.
What you're trying to do is say "I use +5 of my enhancement bonus for my AC and use the other +5 of my enhancement bonus for attack and damage" - but you don't have two separate enhancement bonuses; you only have one, and it's only +5 because there was no stacking.
No one else has an opinion on this? Any of the tre cases?
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or our opinion has been expressed and we have nothing more to add.
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Defending is use activated. Whatever enhancement bonus the weapon had at that time is all that is available to be allocated.
TLDR: I agree with DM Blake.
The whole question is moot. You can't stack a magic weapon's enhancement bonus with the enhancement bonus from Greater Magic Weapon. You only get the higher of the two Enhancement bonusesNever intended that they stack, actually the opposite. They each go their own way and you use the bigger one at the moment of the attack.Except it doesn't work that way.
You have the +5 defender, and you cast GMW on it for +5, so first you resolve that. The +5 enhancement bonus doesn't stack with the +5 enhancement bonus so you take the greater of the two (they're equal) and you have a +5 defender.
Once that is resolved, you make a decision each round about whether you're going to use none, some, or all of that +5 for AC.
What you're trying to do is say "I use +5 of my enhancement bonus for my AC and use the other +5 of my enhancement bonus for attack and damage" - but you don't have two separate enhancement bonuses; you only have one, and it's only +5 because there was no stacking.
No, you have 2 (3 including MW) overlapping bonuses. Normally you use the highest as you only have one use for an enhancement bonus. With a Defending weapon you have multiple uses for an enhancement bonus.
No, you have 2 (3 including MW) overlapping bonuses. Normally you use the highest as you only have one use for an enhancement bonus. With a Defending weapon you have multiple uses for an enhancement bonus.The whole question is moot. You can't stack a magic weapon's enhancement bonus with the enhancement bonus from Greater Magic Weapon. You only get the higher of the two Enhancement bonusesNever intended that they stack, actually the opposite. They each go their own way and you use the bigger one at the moment of the attack.Except it doesn't work that way.
You have the +5 defender, and you cast GMW on it for +5, so first you resolve that. The +5 enhancement bonus doesn't stack with the +5 enhancement bonus so you take the greater of the two (they're equal) and you have a +5 defender.
Once that is resolved, you make a decision each round about whether you're going to use none, some, or all of that +5 for AC.
What you're trying to do is say "I use +5 of my enhancement bonus for my AC and use the other +5 of my enhancement bonus for attack and damage" - but you don't have two separate enhancement bonuses; you only have one, and it's only +5 because there was no stacking.
No, you have one enhancement bonuses with three overlapping (non-stacking) sources for that one bonus. You still have just the one +5 enhancement bonus and therefore must still be limited each round to deciding whether to use all, some, or none of that one bonus to Defend (apply to AC) or reserve it for attacking instead.
They cannot overlap unless there are multiples, so your statement is demonstrably false.
No one else has an opinion on this? Any of the tre cases?
DM_Blake explained it perfectly. If you are looking for other opinions, you are looking for people to disagree with the rules.
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I disagree.
GMW's bonus TYPE is "enhancement," but it does not actually grant the weapon an inherent enhancement bonus -- only a temporary one. This interpretation is supported by the fact that the GWM does not penetrate DR the way a "real" magic weapon does.
If you have a +1 defender and cast GMW +5 on it, you defend at +0 or +1 (only), because the GMW spell doesn't change the actual weapon's real properties. However, you'd gain the temporary +5 from GMW no matter how much of the actual bonus you're defending with -- "non-stacking" bonuses overlap, they do not supersede one another. The sword doesn't become +6 (stacking), and likewise it doesn't actually become a +5 defending sword (superseding). It stays a +1 defending sword, but has a temporary enhancement bonus to attacks and damage of +5 for as long as the spell lasts.
DMBlake's interpretation uses superseding bonuses, rather than overlapping ones. Dekalinder's interpretation does, too, in a sense.
In no way can a +1 defending sword be used to defend at +5 by casting GMW on it.
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No one else has an opinion on this? Any of the tre cases?DM_Blake explained it perfectly. If you are looking for other opinions, you are looking for people to disagree with the rules.
I'm perfectly fine with people agreeing with DM_Black, but i'd like them to say so. Even better if they provide some rules, deduction, or points of interest.
BTW Kirth provided a better explaination than mine to the way I was looking at the situation.
I disagree.
GMW's bonus TYPE is "enhancement," but it does not actually grant the weapon an inherent enhancement bonus -- only a temporary one. This interpretation is supported by the fact that the GWM does not penetrate DR the way a "real" magic weapon does.
Unless i'm missing something, which if i am please correct me.
I don't think that is true.
"Overcoming DR: Damage reduction may be overcome by special materials, magic weapons (any weapon with a +1 or higher enhancement bonus, not counting the enhancement from masterwork quality), certain types of weapons (such as slashing or bludgeoning), and weapons imbued with an alignment."
That and as far as i know there is no difference between a Greater Magic Weapon's enhancement and an enhancement on a magic weapon.
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I disagree.
GMW's bonus TYPE is "enhancement," but it does not actually grant the weapon an inherent enhancement bonus -- only a temporary one. This interpretation is supported by the fact that the GWM does not penetrate DR the way a "real" magic weapon does.
Unless i'm missing something, which if i am please correct me.
I don't think that is true.
"Overcoming DR: Damage reduction may be overcome by special materials, magic weapons (any weapon with a +1 or higher enhancement bonus, not counting the enhancement from masterwork quality), certain types of weapons (such as slashing or bludgeoning), and weapons imbued with an alignment."
That and as far as i know there is no difference between a Greater Magic Weapon's enhancement and an enhancement on a magic weapon.
It is in the spell description.
Magic Weapon, Greater
This spell functions like magic weapon, except that it gives a weapon an enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls of +1 per four caster levels (maximum +5). This bonus does not allow a weapon to bypass damage reduction aside from magic.
Thanks Gisher.
I've never noticed that line before. (But i also don't use enhancement to bypass alignement/material DR in my games.)
I thouhgt Kirth meant that the spell wouldn't bypass DR/Magic because of that. :)
You are welcome. :)