Random question: if I go expanded element (aether) do I get access to the aether boost composite blast?
And if you use TK to move a ball of water, and someone stands on the water, they'll fall right through it, because you aren't supporting THEM. Unless they naturally are afloat in the water, of course.
Just because you're holding onto the carpet doesn't make it stronger or more rigid.
You can manipulate it as if in one hand, but you aren't creating a force plane under it for purposes of anything ELSE. That's my point.
Now, a tray by itself is naturally rigid and able to support more weight, and thus more suitable for transporting others. Hence my recommendation to use it instead of a carpet or net.
==Aelryinth
I think this can be resolved by reading the explanation in the basic TK description:
"you can create a container of entwined strands of aether in order to hold liquids"
People seem to picture picking it up with some sort of TK fingers, when it's more the palm of your hand. Our TK, unlike magic, defines how we generate our TK. We generate a "field" that is made of aether which, much like the cup of your hand, is formed like a container. If you lay a plate/carpet/water in the palm of a hand, it's not going to have the effect that picking it up on all 4-sides (which is what I assume the carpet example is suggesting) does.
A cup is a container, even if it's a very wide, very shallow cup. If you tilt the palm of your hand, liquid pours out. Now, I'm willing to concede that it doesn't state your ability to shape it once its in the cup, so even if you stretch that cup across the chasm in the shallowest, yet widest way possible, it doesn't give anything that would unfold the bridge or iron plates for you... similarly, the flying carpet might need to be completely unfurled first and laid on the ground, but once it is, you lift it like it's in a container, and that container can be the same width and length as the carpet. The only other rule, provided by the mage hand spell, is that you can lift and move it. As has been pointed out (despite my originally disagreeing with it), there is no rule for if it "becomes" attended once the effect has begun. It's obviously a loop hole, but until an errata is produced, it's still there. People hopping on once you're set, is RAW legal, though perhaps not RAI. Though, I'd surely require a reflex save of sorts to make sure they kept their balance, particularly if they try surf-boarding it, but other than that... that's all the rules give us.
Of note, this also explains the odd way of doing TK-Self. You're not lifting yourself with some sort of fine control. You're lifting the aether beneath you. That's why it seems so jerky... you've basically made a bag of aether and are trying to move it about. It's not true telekinesis, it's aetherkinesis really. Trying to lift people should include a similar level of difficulty. Straight-lines only for example, as you swing your container in a dingle direction.
Yyyyeeesss... but that doesn't mean it still doesn't, as written, not work with Aether, as it obviously does as written. So I'm merely curious now if it working on incorporeal/ethereal things is something that is 'OMG NO', or could be allowed by a DM.Now, if the ability doesn't work with telekins, why is allowed?Because "Universal" is cheaper to print than "Air, Earth, Fire, and Water."Mark Seifter's post in his Ask thread.
While this might be a jokey kind of answer to the question; a large part of me wants to think this is a teaser to a new kind of elemental to be published in some sort of "Occult Bestiary" or something like that.So - a kineticist question - aether element - so what exactly does draining infusion (which is listed as a universal substance infusion) actually drain from with this ability?Skipping ahead since I happened to see this one and it'll be fun to answer. Basically, [aether] creatures. To ask a similar question, what can the telekineticist create with the spark of life utility talent? The answer: aether elementals!
I have an update to this, also from from Mark Seifter's thread.
Aether elementals were "leaked" at a Gencon panel as being in B5! Also wysps of all five elementals—and they're adorable!So - a kineticist question - aether element - so what exactly does draining infusion (which is listed as a universal substance infusion) actually drain from with this ability?Skipping ahead since I happened to see this one and it'll be fun to answer. Basically, [aether] creatures. To ask a similar question, what can the telekineticist create with the spark of life utility talent? The answer: aether elementals!So, I'm a little obtuse here - is this something you are developing or something I just can't find? :)
Of note, this also explains the odd way of doing TK-Self. You're not lifting yourself with some sort of fine control. You're lifting the aether beneath you. That's why it seems so jerky... you've basically made a bag of aether and are trying to move it about. It's not true telekinesis, it's aetherkinesis really. Trying to lift people should include a similar level of difficulty. Straight-lines only for example, as you swing your container in a dingle direction.
But this 'bag' only lifts you. If you dropped a flask, it would fall right through the container and hit the ground, because it's attuned to 'you'.
Ditto the liquid...it's lifting the liquid. It's not attuned to lift stuff passing through the liquid. Which is why you can go into and out of it freely, and it will still retain its shape and form. ANd why you could punch a hole in the carpet, and it would still be floating around.
What it is holding onto is VERY precise, if not very controlled.
==Aelryinth
Of note, this also explains the odd way of doing TK-Self. You're not lifting yourself with some sort of fine control. You're lifting the aether beneath you. That's why it seems so jerky... you've basically made a bag of aether and are trying to move it about. It's not true telekinesis, it's aetherkinesis really. Trying to lift people should include a similar level of difficulty. Straight-lines only for example, as you swing your container in a single direction.But this 'bag' only lifts you. If you dropped a flask, it would fall right through the container and hit the ground, because it's attuned to 'you'.
Ditto the liquid...it's lifting the liquid. It's not attuned to lift stuff passing through the liquid.
Where is this rule?
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A person standing on a carpet doesn't interact directly with the floor either, yet they don't punch through the carpet. A carpet is perfectly capable of transmitting perpendicular force without tearing. If the floor has a certain weight limit before it breaks into the cellar, it applies to the total force exerted on it by the carpet, which is its own weight plus the reaction force to the normal force it exerts on the person, which in turn is equal to the person's weight, assuming a horizontal setup.
Why aren't we referencing floating disk in this circumstance? It's a force spell, creates a disk instead of a web of force (which I suppose you could imagine the disk being), but both are force effects. I'd probably rule that what you could do with a floating disk you could do here. And why not? People can have nice things.
Now, that's a bad example with the floor again. We're talking levitation. We're talking exact target of a telekinetic effect. We are not talking a floor + a carpet. We are talking about a carpet being held up in midair with roughly the ability of someone using one hand to do so. The carpet is not laying on a perpendicular surface and being held up by solid material with its own strength and weight limit. It's being held up in the air, and only has its own strength and weight limit, none other.
A carpet laying on the floor passes all force upon it through to the floor. As long as the floor holds, there is NO chance of the carpet being stressed...it's just another layer of flooring.
There is no flooring with TK. It's all just the carpet.
The TK effect has to be strong enough to hold up the carpet. It has to be strong enough to hold up whatever is on the carpet, as well. But tellingly, the carpet also has to be strong enough to hold up whatever is on it, because it IS the floor now, and the TK is not holding up whatever is on the carpet, that's a separate item.
So, it's possible to rupture the carpet by weight and put a hole in it and fall down, even if its under the TK weight limit, simply because the carpet isn't strong enough to handle the weight at that point, and your TK isn't acting on the things atop the carpet, just the carpet itself.
After all, there's nothing in the TK description that says it increases the strength or weight limits of whatever you grab. You can just grab it, and manipulate it roughly. You aren't making it more rigid or stronger to any real extent, or it would note that you are changing its physical properties.
So, you could fly/swim right through TK controlled water, just like normal water. You could drop an iron ball through it, and it would just pass through. Your TK is grabbing the water, not everything in the water, which has every opportunity to fall right on through it, or be swept along by the wave motion, or to continue swimming around in it.
==Aelryinth
Why aren't we referencing floating disk in this circumstance? It's a force spell, creates a disk instead of a web of force (which I suppose you could imagine the disk being), but both are force effects. I'd probably rule that what you could do with a floating disk you could do here. And why not? People can have nice things.
Because force disk is rigid, and TK is flexible. They are two very different things.
And does the psychic version have the force descriptor? it's not on the spell. Force descriptor actually usually creates solid things of force.
==Aelryinth
Because force disk is rigid, and TK is flexible. They are two very different things.
Where does it say that TK is flexible?
The TK effect has to be strong enough to hold up the carpet. It has to be strong enough to hold up whatever is on the carpet, as well. But tellingly, the carpet also has to be strong enough to hold up whatever is on it, because it IS the floor now, and the TK is not holding up whatever is on the carpet, that's a separate item.
2 things about this...
Rugs (carpets don't exist yet) can bear a LOT of weight. This isn't paper or cardboard we're talking about here, we're talking about thick hemp and silk all weaved together, easily able to hold the weight of people (though most of the talk has been about harder items, like a folding boat).
Other thing, my "disk", which is what the weaves of aether are more akin to, can hold 600 lbs. Carpet takes up 50, that's enough for a couple of people and gear, and the weave would support the carpet weave. I didn't build the aether to hold 50lbs of carpet... I built it to hold 600 lbs of whatever.
Together you have a very rigid and strong combination. Not really sure what the flexible is all about.
I think a pyrokineticist would just never go underwater. Ever. They would just pass. "Uhhhh, yeah, no, I'm gonna just sit this out out guys." "But the--" "Yeah, really sorry, but I've got this thing with my back, and I just ate..."
I think the rest of the party would tell him that he needs to sit this one out and watch the horses while they are going after that treasure on the bottom of the lake. In an environment where none of his powers function he would just suck up healing with no return on investment. If it is a single encounter, well, whatever you missed on fight but still learned something. If the whole campaign moves under the sea, then sorry dude, but you need to roll up a new one.
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For the record, here's my Permafrost Kineticist after correcting for my previous mistakes, and assuming that I can get a Cold + Earth composite blast.
Human Hydro/Geo Kineticist
10 16 16 10 12 08
01 Cold; Extended Range; Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot
02 Shroud of Water; Slick
03 Kinetic Blade; Weapon Finesse
04 Kinetic Cover
05 Entangling Infusion; Iron Will
06 Waterdancer
07 Earth, Permafrost; Weapon Focus: Kinetic Blast
08 Expanded Defense (Flesh of Stone)
09 Impale, Bowling Infusion; Extra Wild Talent
10 Shimmering Mirage
11 Wall; Improved Critical: Kinetic Blast
12 Ride the Blast
13 Kinetic Whip; Step Up
14 Suffocate
The TK effect has to be strong enough to hold up the carpet. It has to be strong enough to hold up whatever is on the carpet, as well. But tellingly, the carpet also has to be strong enough to hold up whatever is on it, because it IS the floor now, and the TK is not holding up whatever is on the carpet, that's a separate item.2 things about this...
Rugs (carpets don't exist yet)...
RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32
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I've seen numerous people talking about how earth is a great melee element. What makes it so much better at melee than the other elements? I have a (still low level, just hit 3) kineticist who I've been mostly playing as a ranged attacker / kinetic cover maker. Is ranged still a decent option for earth?
I've seen numerous people talking about how earth is a great melee element. What makes it so much better at melee than the other elements? I have a (still low level, just hit 3) kineticist who I've been mostly playing as a ranged attacker / kinetic cover maker. Is ranged still a decent option for earth?
Yeah- it has a physical blast, so its ranged attacks do fine damage. And the AoEs...no fire levels, obviously, but frag is decent enough (full on main target, 1/4 on area).
From what I can tell, the main reason people go on about melee is that it has good DR, which means it suffers less than other elements up close. But you could just end up as a tanky archer, basically.
And yes, the DR is that good, and worth spending 1-2 burn on- it takes a bit off every physical hit. That adds up, particularly when facing many smaller enemies or a multi hit enemy (like an archer). I remember seeing some of the notes on gameplay from the play test, and it coudl very well save your character's life.
I've seen numerous people talking about how earth is a great melee element. What makes it so much better at melee than the other elements? I have a (still low level, just hit 3) kineticist who I've been mostly playing as a ranged attacker / kinetic cover maker. Is ranged still a decent option for earth?
Because of it's movement. Earth can Earth Glide like an Elemental, which can 'move through the earth like a fish in the sea'.
Geokinetic with Kinetic Whip can move through the earth and strike at foes from anywhere. Once you've got Kinetic Form, Tremorsense and Earth Glide, you are a monster when it comes to melee. As long as the enemy is on the ground anyway.
You have a 20 ft. reach (kinetic form + kinetic whip) and can attack from inside the wall to enemies outside the wall and even attack adjacent enemies. Sure, they have cover from you, but you can do it all day and with a full attack where as they have to use readied actions to attack you. If you use metal blast with the magnetic infusion, you can even give yourself (and others) a +4 to hit against an enemy if they wear armor.
With Tremorsense, you'll always know where an enemy is, even if they turn invisible, you can find them. You can use your abilities to lift rocks out of the ground to block off escape routes, or as battlefield control to restrict enemy movement.
Here's an example of one I built not too long ago: Genbu, the Earthen King. He's a 15 pt-buy NPC using the heroic stats (15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8) with NPC wealth as appropriate for a campaign with the Fast XP track.
Unfortunately, I was reminded that Spring Attack and Kinetic Blade/Whip are not compatible because Spring Attack is it's own special full-round action, not a full attack so his tactics are in error (but I house rule that nonsense away). Still, he can use Whirlwind Attack to strike every enemy within reach (20 ft. reach, mind you) dealing any of his kinetic blast damages. If he wants to avoid taking burn, he can even move into the earth to Supercharge before attacking, then 5 ft. stepping out again and using an Empowered kinetic blast, or a Metal blast. If he really needs to kill someone, he can use Supercharge + Internal Buffer to reduce the cost of an Empowered Metal blast with Kinetic Whip which does an average of 93 points of damage to every enemy within 20 ft. of him, if he hits.
Keep in mind, this is an NPC point buy, with NPC wealth, and he's pretty beastly as they go. He would be a nightmare for many parties to fight because he can always retreat into the earth and harass the party from inside the earth and there isn't much they can do about it.
Still need to sit down and build my grappler pyrokineticist. Cap out Searing Flesh, size bonus increase to Strength. IIRC, Kinetic Fist should apply to grapple damage, so, burning infusion + other riders.
Either way, grab someone, and burn them to cinders. I'll have to see if there's room for Grabbing Style, grab two.
By chance, does anyone know if Jagged Flesh applies to your grappling the opponent as well? If so, it may be worth it to expand into Earth for DR and Jagged Flesh for a bit more ouch.
I just started my 'rogue' aether kineticist. She will be branching out to earth and then air as she gains more power. I'm aiming for maximum battlefield control with bowling, foe throw, and grappling walls/deadly earths/clouds. I'll even be able to do aetheric boosted empowered sandstorm blasts.