double panache pool

[shroudb]

if you have two classes with the panache class feature what happens?

a)you have two seperate pools that each can be used only for the deeds of the class that you got the pool from. you regain points seperatly.

b)you have 1 pool, you regain points if you satisfy either requirement for any pool.

c)you have 1 big pool of 2xCha (similar to luck+panache)

example:
you have a swashbuckler (dervish)1/monk (katamaster) 1

you have a 14 cha

example a)
you have 1 pool of 2 points with which you can use all lvl1 swash deeds
you have 1 pool of 2 points with which you can only use kata deeds
if you crit, and kill a living creature with an unarmed attack, you regain 2 points for the kata master pool but only 1 for the swash pool

example b)
you have a single pool of 2 points with which you can use all your deeds
if you crit and kill a living creature you regain 2 points.

example c)
you have a single pool of 4 points with which you can use all your deeds
if you crit and kill a living creature you regain 2 points

which one is it?

[LazarX]

Just like in similar cases... you have two separate pools, each hardwaired to the classes they came from.

[shroudb]

LazarX wrote:

Just like in similar cases... you have two separate pools, each hardwaired to the classes they came from.

normally yes, that's how i would run it.

but in panache case, that means that you are potentially regaining panache twice as fast (2/crit, 2/kill, etc) since if you crit p.e. both pools would refill by 1

[Byakko]

There have been a number of threads about this recently. I recommend doing a search and reading up.

TL/DR:
It's unclear how two panache combine, or even if they do. Ask your GM.
Personally, I use the worst case option B, despite feeling that A or C are probably correct, because I don't want to have to argue about it and my panache rarely runs out anyway.

[rainzax]

For a home game, I would:

0) If same "type" (Grit/Panache vs Ki/Ki):
1) All abilities expend and recover from a single pool.
2) Calculate total pool points as sum of class HDs + higher of all ability scores.
3) Upon gaining the subsequent pools convert the "gain pool" ability to "+2 extra points" feat.

So, your swashmonk would have a panache pool of 4 points, all abilities, and all 1-pt recovery triggers, fighting with either his rapier or unarmed.

[shroudb]

Byakko wrote:

There have been a number of threads about this recently. I recommend doing a search and reading up.

TL/DR:
It's unclear how two panache combine, or even if they do. Ask your GM.
Personally, I use the worst case option B, despite feeling that A or C are probably correct, because I don't want to have to argue about it and my panache rarely runs out anyway.

i know that they are unclear and the old threads don't offer clear concensous, that's why i brought it up now that the erratta came along, in favor of shedding some light.

i AM the gm in question, i just don't want the player to feel cheated.

the only relevant faq is the channel energy one, which would suggest 2 seperate pools, but the luck/panache sidebar suggest that it wouldn't be impossible to actually have a double cha pool

[Grey_Mage]

In a homebrew I would only allow 1 pool. If you got the same feature twice (i.e panache x2) the second would be converted to the extra panache feat to avoid high stat min-maxing insanity.

Per intent I feel they didn't intend them to stack at all, but in a homebrew I consider the above approach is sufficient to keep a player from feeling "cheated" when taking redundant skills.

I don't intend to rehash old arguments that have previously taken place but please consider the following when you make your personal ruling:

1) The channel FAQ was specific to channeling although the wording seems to indicate otherwise. It has been stated by the development team not to apply FAQ rules outside their specific instance and the ACG wasn't published yet so I don't consider this a good source for "intent".

2) It is stated that Panache/Grit and Luck all form "a single pool from which to do heroic deeds" so multiple pools appear contrary to RAW even in the instance of multiple panache class abilities. There is an FAQ stating you can't use the same stat modifier for the same skill/ability which was necessitated the Luck/Panache exception sidebar (i.e. they feed the same pool but they are considered different sources for stacking).

3) Although the side box allows CHA to be added twice in the case of Luck and Panache, it makes no allowances for the same source (i.e panache and panache) inferring they would be considered "same source CHA".

4) There is a Gunslinger archetype that allows CHA for Grit and it does stack with CHA for Luck/Panache under the above interpretations.

However;

5) Now that swashbucklers are the only ones capable of Opp Parry & Riposte and it can't be reduced by signature deed feat there will be increased demand on these pools so its very likely there will be more demand for larger pools. This also means any design limitations (I believe were) intentionally placed for balance are also more important. Your ruling should be made carefully with respect to your anticipated power level of your players and campaign so I recommend talking to the player in advance and let him know if your ruling seems over- or under-powered, you reserve the right to tweak it.

I was hoping this would have been addressed in the errata, but I was disappointed.

[GreyFox95]

I'd say it works like a monk/ninja. Add an ability score mod once and the levels of the class combine for determining how big the pool is but not for the powers you can use.

[shroudb]

GreyFox95 wrote:

I'd say it works like a monk/ninja. Add an ability score mod once and the levels of the class combine for determining how big the pool is but not for the powers you can use.

the ability doesnt depends on the levels though.

only on stats

[GreyFox95]

shroudb wrote:

GreyFox95 wrote:

I'd say it works like a monk/ninja. Add an ability score mod once and the levels of the class combine for determining how big the pool is but not for the powers you can use.

the ability doesnt depends on the levels though.

only on stats

Yeah I just look back at that and was gonna edit my first response. I would still go with the general rule of ability scores don't get added to anything twice and say its one pool equal to the charisma mod and it powers both.