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Hello! My local group is wrapping up the end of our heroic campaign (we're all Level 18) soon, and with it comes the exciting prospects of the new campaign another one of the players will run.
That said, there are some circumstances conspiring that have given me a challenge which I've been struggling with for the last week, and finally thought I would turn to the creative and knowledgeable message board community for some advice.
The Background:
I tend to play support role characters, generally some kind of Arm or Anvil in combat, and this time it seems like it will be the same. I am moving to the other side of the world soon, so I'll be joining in by Skype to the sessions when possible, but we've discussed already that should time schedules not match up on occasion, that my character can be NPC'd for the party. Since this time Leadership/cohorts/etc are not allowed, it won't be an extra burden for the GM to use the character. I do, however, want to make the general playstyle of the character simple enough for the GM to manage in that situation.
In the last two games I've played a charming robin hoodette Bard turned into Cleric (Evangelist), and then an Arcane Trickster who died and was replaced by a vehemently anti-necromancer Arcane Archer. I was hoping to play a not-so-magic based character this time (especially since with our high level game I am a bit burned out of all of the caster-y things).
It is set in a homebrew world we have been playing in, with the player characters as orphans around the age of 5, witnessing an event that hints at their future fates (ie, background/explaining why they will go on to become what class/etc). Then it snapshots to their reunion in their early teens after having been separated, and their decision to join the local militia in order to do service to earn their citizenship right in the country.
The game will take off in their late teens/early twenties (character Level 3), and will likely go until Level 13-14 and see them grow up.
The campaign world setting is a living world - we're starting effectively 50 years after the end of the previous game this GM ran (the campaign before the one we just are finishing) and fleshing out a neighboring region.
Although we're starting "in the militia", we're definitely rising from humble roots. It feels a little like a Fire Emblem game, but our region is a bit Age of Sail technology wise, with guns being decidedly less common and in the early firearms set of rules.
The other players are making:
A melee barbarian, A natural attack ranger (maybe guide archetype), and a sword+board inquisitor (who will be our 'party leader').
Obviously we're missing out on a lot of the Arm + Anvil aspects. It also means we have 3 melee, so either I go melee/switch hit and get the GM to just design encounters around that, or play another ranged character. (Or GM is fine at encounter design/shaping around us, so probably fine with me doing either).
A note on healing:
Two games ago I played the Bard and reclassed into a Cleric(Evangelist) because wand of cure light wounds was not doing enough for us for us for in combat healing/condition removal (rest of party was Magus, Monk, Fighter/ninja, Gunslinger). Last game we had a Paladin who could cover out of combat healing, but we struggled in combat until our Fighter took Leadership and got a cleric cohort. It looks like this time I'll need to cover the in combat healing aspects/condition removal.
I'm aware that one way to also try to reduce the reliance on healing is debuff/crowd control in combat, too, so some kind of compromise seems best.
Summary: Characters start at Level 3.
Characters are orphans who have known each other since childhood.
Not Allowed: Dwarves (cultural reasons), Elves (age difference problem for orphanage), gnomes (same reason as elves)
The other Players: Melee barbarian, natural-attack ranger, sword+board inquisitor.
My dilemma: I've considered Cleric, Shaman, and Witch as the big three that seem like they would let me swing between Arm and Anvil with healing as necessary. However, I have played magic/caster characters the last few games and I was wondering if anyone has any creative ideas or suggestions on ways to effectively support the above party preferably without one of those three classes.
Thank you for your time!
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Well I would suggest an Alchemist.
1. Utility- Extracts for loads of utility effects. Respectable skill points as well, although admittedly not approaching the bard or rogue levels. You could always dip a level into something rogue-ey for a bunch of knowledge skills. You can use Cognitogens to raise the mental attribute du jour as needed for the particular knowledge or social skill you need. You make your extracts at the beginning of the day typically, but if you leave a slot or two free and you have an in-game hour or so of downtime you can make whatever you need to meet a challenge that raises its head, as you come to it.
2. Buffing- with the right discoveries you can use your extracts on other people. You can also self-buff amazingly well with discoveries and feats such as Eternal Potion, Diluted Extract, etc.
3. Crowd Control (not familiar with Arm/Anvil games theory but with dicoveries such as Stinking Bomb (nauseate enemies), Dispelling Bomb, Force Bomb (knockdown effect, harms incorporeals, etc.)
4. D8 hit dice! Buff and damage (at least in terms of versatility and multi-target effect) like a caster, survive like a rogue, especially if you load up Con and Dex, and then use Dex mutagen in combat.
5. While talking about damage, you start with basic Fire damage for your bombs, but you have discoveries available for Cold, Acid, Force, and even Good/Evil "bane" damage eventually.
6. Wanna melee? Use Str mutagen and use some of the mutagen discoveries like Feral Mutagen and go toe to toe like Mr. Hyde.
7. Wanna hang back and lob bombs? Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot feats and Precision Bombs discovery let you lob into melee and call which squares you want to exclude from splash damage, without taking terrible penalties.
8. Throw Anything feat for free! This one is fun. Basically proficient with any splash weapon, not just bombs, and any improvised thrown weapon. You might surprise yourself the things you realize you can throw, especially if you get creative with combat mutagens and extracts like Enlarge Person, Fly, etc.
9. You can use discoveries to increase your survivability. Effective poison immunity comes as you level, the Preserve Organs ability protects you from sneak attacks and the like.
10. Capstone discoveries are really neat. Philosopher's stone can be used to transmute stuff or to give you a True Resurrection elixir once a month. (If you can afford the cost, but at that level shouldn't be an issue.)
11. Lots of flavor and fun RP potential. I admit I was skeptical at first of the class's place in fantasy setting, but there are many ways to flavor the class. True mad scientist, wide-eyed natural philosopher, lab experiment gone wrong, reluctant academic, Batman-style "I've got just the thing for this!-gadgeteer.
12. Action economy. Can do things regarding extracts, bombs, and potions as shorter action types than normal.
I have fun with my swiss army gnome. I feel like I will always be useful no matter what comes up. I'm a newb though so take whatever I say with a bushel of salt.
-Fizz
If you want to go very non-caster there are a lot of interesting things you can do with a Cavalier. You have a very Melee focused group so being able to spread around the Teamwork feats becomes really handy. Order of the Dragon is a very nice choice for someone who wants to help out the party, make sure to grab some feats that let you use your Aid another without giving up your own attack. There are a couple of different ones depending on your other feat choices.
Hmm... A Lore Shaman does seem to be the best fit for your group. You're short on both arcane and divine support, and the Shaman can cover both.
There unfortunately isn't a way to cover the required bases without 9th level spellcasting with Paizo material, unfortunately. I'm not familiar enough with 3rd party stuff to know if there are any options there.
Animist Archetype for the Shaman removes conditions with a Diplomacy check and looks like all kinds of fun. But, you know, full caster. Although you could deliberately sandbag a bit and mostly use hexes.
Well.... One thing that may be of interest is a Halfling Cavalier. You can be very helpful that way, and it meshes with your desire for not having a whole lot of casting to worry about. The problem is that this leads to a definite lack of healing capability (Though the Inquisitor and Ranger will both be able to work with wands, so not as huge of a problem). Add in the teamwork feats you can hand out and Challenge being an excellent source of damage (And AC if you're one of the Order of the Dragon People), you can very quickly cover both Arm and Anvil with ease. Add in the Beast Rider archetype, and you can get an extremely helpful animal companion as well.
Alternatively, you could be a Spirit Guide Oracle. Because, for a spontaneous caster, there are few ways to beat the sheer versatility you can wring out of a Spirit Guide Oracle.
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Thank you everyone for the feedback!
fizzlenubbs!!: Alchemist does sound like an awesome choice, thanks for the breakdown. The flexibility to stay at a range with bombs or a crossbow, but also jump into melee seems great. The Chirurgeon archetype especially looks like it could do well. I don't know about the healing bombs, but getting that to work seems essential. I assume it lets you draw a potion as part of the action to use it (since it lets you combine the bomb it with an extract). Because it just combines with a cure spell/potion, the healing seems a bit lackluster (but if allies are nearby they'll get a little bit, which is good). Seems like a bit of an expensive channel energy, but at the same time, for an emergency use it's a good option to have.
Throw anything also could be amusing, since we have a certain amount of militia equipment that I won't have proficiency with...except as an improvised ranged weapon. I like the brew potion and alchemy as options to get a lot of flexibility and play up the roleplaying. Chirurgeon also sets up for a really nice Level 5: Signature Skill: Heal feat which knocks out any concern for out of combat healing.
My main concern with the alchemist is the action economy for buffing the rest of the party. Debuffing bombs look nice, especially for combat opening, but otherwise it looks like the rest of the team will have to spend their opening round drinking passed around infusions. And for the melee team, that puts them at a bit of a backfoot on initiative/losing charge/etc.
Does a potion of haste (or infusion-extract of haste) only target the drinker? Or does it cast from their location? It may not be a make-or-break by itself, but that means a lot more resources expended to buff the party...
Greylurker: Interesting... a teamwork focused cavalier is something I hadn't even considered! With the inquisitor also getting some teamwork feats, and the close-knit nature of the group, that would be fun style to make use of. I wonder if I could fit it into a Cavalier +Bard into Battle Herald... Alternatively add a little cleric to make a Holy Vindicator. But honestly our Inquisitor player is more playing as the party leader, so I'd have to figure out a way to do it without stealing his thunder.
Arachnofiend: I was worried that I would have to go Cleric again, originally. I haven't played a shaman yet, but that Lore Spirit ability looks rather strong as a way of shoring up the spell list. It sounds better as a Wandering spirit though. Battle Spirit's Hampering Hex + Evil Eye + Chant looks like a pretty strong set of hex debuffs on a target, and the Battle Ward seems like it can be a first thing in the morning pre-buff. I like that the shaman is sturdier than the witch in combat with armor/d8 hp, that'd make the 30 foot range of most of the hexes easier to manage.
Casual Viking: The animist archetype was the very first thing that caught my eye when I looked at the shaman class. Thematically it's very cool, and similar to the Herb Witch's remedies as a really fun way to clear conditions. I'll definitely investigate it some more, especially with the aforementioned Lore Spirit.
Fruian Thistlefoot: Slumber's great, and definitely adds to the list of compelling shaman abilities. With the witch I've generally found it to be a bit boring, but my character this time might have the right kind of personality to prefer using it over some of the other hexes.
mourge40k: Halfling cavalier, like the other suggested cavalier, does leave me worried about the healing capability. It's the emergency in-combat healing/condition clearing that has me concerned. Out of combat we can always manage to patch people up. I can already say with certainty that the Ranger won't be healing people (physically can't use wands), and while the Inquisitor can help cover with some curing, I know he's going Sword+Board which is going to make the hand-juggling difficult, doubly-so while engaged in combat.
I'll be honest, I didn't even think of the oracle, and that Spirit Guide + spontaneous casting sounds fantastic. I'll look into it.
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Yes I think Shaman fits the bill nicely.
Tho in my group I can make a Evangelist Cleric who specializes in Enchantment work well. Between SUmmons, Blade Barrier, Suggestion, Command, Lesser toppling Rod+Spiritual weapon...I can have a myriad of "anvil" tools...and Buffing is as easy as beginning a Performance. I mean really do you need more than a Bless + Inspire Courage? Haste is nice and all but I can give my melees another attack with a simple Command: Down.
But If you recently played a cleric and don't feel like playing another I'd go Shaman all the way...they are so deceptively powerful that I have yet to figure them out completely 100%.
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Create Mr. Pitt and Fruian Thistlefoot: Thanks for the input! The level 3 start has made it a bit of squeeze to try to stretch as much as I am thinking I might have to.
The Cleric (Evangelist) archetype was what I ended up re-classing to in the last campaign we played in this world setting. Was playing the dispossessed noble reclaiming her kingdom. She's now 50 years older and a potential guest appearance NPC, happy monarch ruling over a neighboring territory.
The evangelist cleric was superb, and honestly really great buffing/debuffing later in the campaign while keeping all of the command/robin hood noble feeling I was roleplaying. As I've already played it once, I'm really hoping to try something different mechanically, even if for a similar role.
Cavalier isn't the only option if you go the Teamwork Feat route. Several other classes have Archetypes that offer that ability so it is something you can mix around with. They aren't as specialied with them like the Cavalier but you back them up with other abilities