RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16
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After several weeks of slipping vigilantes into regularly scheduled PFS games, jumping into online vigilante "blitzes", organizing all vigilante parties through full PFS scenarios and modules, and setting up specific tests with combats pulled from scenarios with PC's or NPC's replaced by vigilantes...I feel I have a pretty good perspective on the vigilante class. I've played all four vigilante specialties at various levels as a player, I've GMed full or partial vigilante groups, and I've NPCed a number of vigilantes in our "replacement" fights. All testing was level 12 or less (PFS play range) and here is my general results...
Social Identities
Since I'm focused on PFS style of play, social identities rarely played a major part in the game. It was a roleplaying gimmick at times, but the actual mechanics of it were usually just background noise and not
adding anything to play. The most memorable identity switch I can recall in over 10 tables was a vigilante getting thrown out of a bar, and switching identities in order to get back in. Not exactly big impact.
SUGGESTION: Make dual identity a talent instead of the base of the class. Dual identity is the thing that makes the class so hard to balance in the first place, and I think the downsides of the complexity
outweigh the benefits of what it brings to the class. I think some social talent chains should be based on disguise and alternate identities (preferably more like the spy master archtype than the current rendition), but I don't think it should be the entire basis of the class.
Low Level (1-4)
Renown never came into play (although I know a few vigilantes from PFS games will be able to have Absalom renown, but that's due to a chronicle sheet, and not the actual class. +4 intimidate will be very handy in Absalom based adventures with the boon, especially if you build part of your character to take advantage of it.
Social Grace has two schools of thought right now. On one hand, since there is no penalties for blowing your cover, a vigilante can always stay in their social identity in order to get their +4 bonus on an important skill like diplomacy or intimidate. This also became the default at many tables at level 1,
since you don't have any vigilante talents to blow your cover anyway. You simply play as if your vigilante identity doesn't exist. (The only thing you really lose is the +4 intimidate from renown, but if you take
intimidate as your social grace skill, then that is irrelevant.) The second way is if you stay with the
spirit of things and try not to blow your cover, the most consistent use of this talent was to pick a skill that would add +4 to your day job after the module, and then stay in vigilante identity. Note - This was the most common thing I saw...the entirety of the social identity came down to a +4 bonus on day job checks. The secondary use was diplomacy or a knowledge skill solely used for start of adventure info.
SUGGESTION: If dual identities are going to remain part of the class, the disadvantages/penalties for blowing cover need to be defined. Right now there is no downside to just going social mode all the time to have access to both social and vigilante talents.
Safehouse and Loyal Aid were the two options to come online at level 3. More often people took renown at 3 because social grace was almost always 1st level from what I saw in builds. I never saw either of these talents get used during the course of any games.
Mid Level (5-8)
Social grace at this level because useful for diplomacy additional knowledge skills at level 5, but didn't see anything else new brought to the table.
Feign Innocence, Great Renown, Many Guises, and Quick Change never came into play at any tables I played or GMed at.
High Level (9-12)
Social grace at this level because useful for diplomacy additional knowledge skills at level 10, but didn't see anything else new brought to the table.
Other talents never came into play at any tables I played or GMed at.
Summary
The social identity as a whole came out to the following:
1) +4 intimidate or diplomacy for those who felt there was no downside to blowing their cover
2) +4 diplomacy or knowledge checks to get starting information for scenarios 3) +4 to a dayjob check
(This was the most popular option by the end of the playtest)
SUGGESTION: More generally useful talents that don't require social identity, preferably non-combat abilities that are still useful for fleshing out a character and helping them contribute in some way. I'd also recommend combining some of the existing talents into single talents that scale as you level if you choose to select it, since the usefulness for most games is pretty narrow.
SUGGESTION: In addition to adding more usefulness to the social talents I recommend the number of social talents selected by characters be reduced. Players at my tables referred to odd levels as feat levels, and even levels as talent levels. Of course they were getting social talents along with those feats on those odd levels, but nobody really cared. I suggest a Social, Vigilante, Vigilant patter, so social talents are selected at 1, 4, 7, 10, 13, 16, and 19, with vigilante talents at all othter levels. At level 12 this equates to 8 vigilante talents and 4 social talents instead of 6 and 6. This would resolve two things...all specialties are talent starved on the vigilante side, and the social talents aren't really a desirable addition to the class in most cases, it's just baggage.
SUGGESTION: If not committing to a weighted talent distribution as per the previous suggestion, I'd suggest a vigilante talent be granted as a bonus at level 1.
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16
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Avenger Specialty
The Avenger plays kind of like a weak fighter if you concentrate on combat feats, so this class is all about making the most of your talents to get "better" stuff than combat feats.
Low Level (1-4)
Hellnight by Night I (RIP): Planned shield of Fury for sword and board build. Did not live long enough to get talent at level 2 to get it. Level 1 feats were shield focus and toughness, in order to try and be
tanky, but he was unable to take hits or hit hard enough at level 1 to survive his furst module in Mummy's Mask. This was a greatly disappointing character that really showed how little 1st level avengers offered at level 1. He was a shining example of lower HP in addition to low fort saves separating this class from fighters.
Hellnight by Night II: changed over to power attacking with a greatsword, and found more success...but not due to the class at all. Exact same build as a fighter would have had an extra feat, barbarian would have done more damage and been more maneuverable, paladin would have had smite (not to mention other stuff), and slayer would have had studied target, all of which would have given at least a 1 time boost in a combat.
2nd level took Signature weapon to improve hitting, but not taking weapon focus at level 1 and waiting for level 2 almost seemed like a disadvantage. The investment would pay off with a free feat (weapon
specialization) at level 8, but the character did not play past level 2 during the playtest.
???: I can't even remember who the Avenger was (in a party of 2 stalkers, 2 warlocks, 1 avenger, and 1 zealot) during Reign of Winter. What I am certain of though is that this character did not stand out from the pack at all when it came to combat prowess (or lack there of.)
SUGGESTION: If not committing to a weighted talent distribution from above, I'd suggest a vigilante talent be granted as a bonus at level 1. The Avenger is the shining example of needing this more than anyone else. He needs something besides a social identity to establish his identity and role in the party.
Kobold Blades: Converted Fighter 4 to Avenger 4 on some kobolds from a season 6 module, and redid the fight. They resulted in being noticable weaker since they were down a feat, losing their weapon specilization cutting into their damage. The upgrade was favored maneuver (dirty trick) giving an extra +2 bonus on dirty tricks when catching the enemy unaware. (They failed to surprise anyone, so that was wasted.) Didn't make a huge difference in the battle overall, but I considered the switch a downgrade to be sure.
Mid Level (5-8)
The Tiller I (RIP): Yes, the first incarnation of the infamous halfing vigilante was originally an avenger in playtest 1, created to attend (and likely free all the servants from) a wedding between a Chilaxian noble and a Blackros daughter. Built around sword and board and bodyguard, the Tiller was somewhat effective in Vigilante mode (but completely slaughtered in social mode when you couldn't use Vigilante talents in that identity). The character was still 1 feat short of a fighter doing the exact same build, but was at least somewhat competent in defending the other vigilantes. He was a bit squishy to be the party tank however.
High Level (9-12)
The Tiller II (RIP): Still a halfing avenger, this character was the victim of a TPK during playtest 1 for a staged level 12 combat from a PFs scenario. The characters were all in vigilante mode to give them the greatest chance of success, but were quickly killed without inflicting any casualties on the enemy. The Tiller was designed to emulate a human fighter (with no archtypes) who had a very similar build. By this level, the tiller had actually closed the feat gap, but didn't have the armor training to dance around in heavy armor, didn't hit quite as hard, and most importantly had less hitpoints by a fair number by this level. (Avenger is at -13 HP by level 12.) Because I was trying to emulate a build of an existing character, I didn't take advantage of a lot of the talents, but because both Shield of Fury and Signature weapon gave feat efficiency, it did open up one talent which allowed for Mad Rush, which was actually fairly impressive for 1 round before the Tiller was promptly beaten down.
The Midnight Mauler I (NPC): This character is in the high levels, even though only his fighter levels were replaced with Avenger levels. We made a couple of changes. Had to give up weapon specialization (since he doesn't have enough levels, and is a feat short of the fighter anyway, although this would have been picked up via signature weapon if he was level 8.) He did get an avenger upgrade though catching someone
completely by surprise with a vital punishment attack of opportunity. That ended up being the beginning of the end for that character who was the only PC death before the Mauler was dispatched. The Mauler would have gotten one more round of attacks off and potentially killed or knocked out a second player, but the loss of 7 HP with the class change was enough to bring him down before his turn.
Summary
Avengers had a couple of cool tricks (like vital punishment) but for straight combat, a fighter was slightly better at low to medium levels, and had a more noticable hit point advantage at mid to high levels. This specialty needs more to be interesting. Right now, it's not even that interesting as an NPC tool.
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16
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Stalker Specialty
Low Level (1-4)
The Tiller (PFS Version) - The final version of the Tiller was built as a halfling stalker instead of an Avenger. He was GM credited up to level 3.2. This meant I was playing with a talent and a couple feats.
The final version of the Tiller was very gimmicky with Blade of Mercy and Clumsy Slave as traits, enforcer as a feat, and twisting fear to top it off. He's built to hit things for non-lethal and then either bluff them into thinking it was an accident or someone else did it, or let them know he did it and intimidate them (dealing even more non-lethal damage) using twisting fear. Really fun to build...never got a single intimidate off the entire adventure. I did eat 2 fireballs...oh what I wouldn't have given for evasion at that time. The Tiller went down fast, but survived to see another day (at level 4 with another talent next time!) Really hoping to see the gimmick work in practice and not just theory.
Shadowbow (RIP) - Elven archer build. Didn't survive to get a single talent let alone getting far enough to pick up sniper. Got poisoned, couldn't find traps (so didn't fill the rogue role well) and couldn't deal with damage reduction. This was a failed character in her first adventure, being part of a 1st level TPK.
Malivante - 2nd level with leave an opening, this stalker tryed to set up flanks as much to use this talent as to get hidden strike damage in the first place. Didn't get extra attacks as often as he had hoped (partly due to things dying before turns came up), but it was great when it did happen. This is excellent action economy early on. Will be even more impressive with up close and personal when he reaches level 4.
I think of the three very different builds on here at low level, this is by far the most effective. (The Twisting Fear one just seems so fun though.)
Mid Level (5-8)
NPC Mooks - During the first playtest, a group of level 8 NPC stalker mooks were created to replace NPC rogue mooks. Although there was an error in one of the abilities, this test showed that stalkers with the right combination of skills (perfect vulnerability + mighty ambush) can make higher level stalkers very deadly and game changing. (They should have been level 10 to legally obtain this combination.) Nothing changes in round 2 to make this any different, so it's still a deadly combo with each part being powerful on it's own. Note, this resulted in a TPK of standard characters in a 12th level scenario. The vigilante heros listed as 12th level TPK victims actually played the same fight, but they fought the normal mooks, not vigilante replacements.
NPC Dark Stalker - Only changed rogue 2, to Stalker 2, but putting it in Mid-Level based on his CR6 challenge rating. Replaced surprise attack for leave an opening. With the darkness conditions of the fight, and with his extra action economy, the Dark Stalker TPKed the party. Granted, the rogue version was good at TPK's too, but the added attack was a noticable difference to this fight. The bad guys will love the up close and personal + leave an opening builds too. (Can't wait for the first time I see a tactics block in a PFS adventure with dazzling display + twisting fear!)
High Level (9-12)
The Treehugger (RIP) - This was another victim of the 12th level TPK. This character was made to emulate an elven ranger/rogue/brawler. The talent mix at this level lets the stalker do some amazing and enjoyable things, and the character was almost as effective as the original it was trying to emulate (even though it had to do things very differently to fill the same role). This was a fun one to play, but it was actually the rest of the party going down that spelled the end. (Missing animal companion also hurt action economy.)
The Midnight Mauler II (NPC): This character is in the high levels, even though only his rogue levels were replaced with stalkerlevels. This actually weakened the villain slightly due to changing sneaks to hidden strike, losing some skill points, and losing evasion. I was very tempted to give him something like rooftop infiltrator, but stuck to the combat trick he originally got with his rogue levels to stay as close as possible. Losing evasion with his rogue levels actually ended up being the key thing that led to his downfall, as he ate a couple half spells he would have otherwise dodged.
Grandmaster Stab You To Death - The PC's meet this vigilante in his social identity as a normal information broker...that is, until he stabs someone (an NPC) to death getting his 3d8 hidden strike damage! I ignored the tactics for a round, in order to use foe collision slamming two PC's into each other before he made his escape (using non-class means.) (This character replaced all rogue levels with stalker levels, but remained mostly the same.)
SUGGESTION: Re-build. Re-build. Someone needs a rebuild with the new class.
Summary
This tended to be pretty good on PC's and NPC's. The attack economy of leave and opening and up close and personal are very strong at all levels, but especially at low to mid levels. There are a lot of talents that are just awesome, but they likely will hardly see play due talents that are must takes. (And you thought it was a spellcaster problem!)
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16
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Warlock Specialty
I only got to do theory crafting with mystic bolts during playtest 2. They were very stong in playtest 1.
I still say tatoo chamber is the gem of this class, and it seems like I got some converts over time. The action economy of having your wands on hand can't be underestimated.
Low Level (1-4)
The Sand Sage - Got to shine for a moment using two burning hands spells to take out foes with damage reduction. However, with his spells expended, he was far less useful with his crossbow, especially when a creature with 3 attacks got a full attack off on him, dooming the party. He didn't survive to get a talent, so never got to take advantage of tatoo chamber.
Sophia - This warlock was of note, because she was a level 2 bomb specialist (in Reign of Winter). Lets just say her bombs were dubious in their effectiveness. I suppose we should be thankful that she doesn't get intelligence to damage, because I think players getting splash damage happened as often as the bad guys.
SUGGESTION: Make sure there is a way to get int to damage, fast bombs, etc for warlocks wanting to specialize in this. Even with it not being that effective right now, it's something that a number of
players will want to play, so it's better to not have it be a trap.
Mid Level (5-8)
Kobold Warlock - 6th level sorcerer replaced with a 6th level warlock underneath absalom. Thought about replacing all the fighters with avengers, but decided to just change out the one character to isolate the test on him. Going from 3rd level spells down to only having 2nd level spells hurt a bit. Gave him tatoo chamber and educated defense to supplement. The two highlights... educated defense really frustrated the PC caster, countering 2 level 3 spells, and he managed to renew his false life to a series of groans. However, the loss of his lightning bolt spell and only 2 scorching rays means he ran out of firepower very quickly on the offensive end, so he wasn't near as much of an actual threat. The two defensive tricks were at least entertaining.
High Level (9-12)
Mr. Missile - Our 3rd victim in the 12th level TPK playtest scenario. He was built to emulate a wizard who pretty much did nothing but cast magic missiles with various metamagic feats. The warlock can actually do that pretty well...just not near as good due to the lack of level 5 and 6 quickened spell slots, so it was a lot less magic missiles. This meant about half the damage output of the wizard version, which meant bad guys not dying fast enough, which meant heroes dying faster. The talents didn't even come into play.
Grandmaster Blaster - The PC's meet this vigilante in his social identity as a normal information broker. This time, bard levels became warlock levels, giving him roughly the same spellcasting ability. Once again ignoring the tactics for one round, he took did two weapon fighting mystic bolts for one round, getting 3 attacks (with huge penalties) but being touch attacks, he managed to still hit 2 out of 3 and getting to apply his 3d6 sneak attack damage to the bolts twice. Had he not been a show off with his tatoo chamber activating his escape item without even wearing it on the next round, he probably would had a slight chance of finishing off that PC, but without getting sneaks anymore, it would have been difficult.
SUGGESTION: Re-build. Re-build. Two options on how to rebuild this guy before he shows up again.
Summary
Huge downgrade from 9th level casters, but a bit more of a fit converting from 6th level casters, but still a downgrade. Has some fun tricks that will be better on NPC's than PC's (like educated defense), and one of the best talents of any of the specialties (tatoo chamber). Mystic bolt is just lacking in the second iteration, although sneak attacking with them was fun. This at least has a couple interesting talents to complement casting, but there just isn't enough here to compete with the bard or alchemist let alone 9th level arcane casters.
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16
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Zealot Specialty
This seems to have been the least played by far. In several of the playtests I coordinated, when we went PFS legal, we had to replace the Zealot with pregen Kyra since we had 3 players and a GM. However, when playing with other groups, I was the only player I ever saw bring a Zealot to the table, and the first time I used Vanishing step with one group (on the last day of the playtest) it was met with a lot of "how did you do that" responses. Unfortunately, I don't know where to build from level 2 on. Vanishing step sounded fun, and getting druid/ranger spells is great, but none of the rest of the talents (except the fey specific one) seem to synergise either thematically or mechanically.
Low Level (1-4)
The Valkyrie - An ulfen fey powered zealot, the Valkyrie played through reign of Winter after being credited/rebuilt at 1.2. I used my two spells each day to put resist elements up on myself and one other. Then I simply played like I was an Avenger. When it came to fighting, there was no real noticable different between the zealot and the avenger. (In reality, I had 5% less chance to hit.) However, I had
vanishing step which made me far more useful on the battlefield as I could take risks, set ambushes, or provide distractions. I have to say that this character was BY FAR the most fun of any vigilante I played
or saw played at level 1. Even without my spells, vanishing step was the best thing I saw any vigilante do at that level during the entire playtest.
SUGGESTION: Make sure other vigilantes have SOMETHING cool to do at level 1...anything. Don't even care what it is. Something to make them not function as level 1 warriors. I think a vigilante talent at level 1 would do it, because there are cool gimmicks for each specialty...and having two gimmicks by level 2 makes them that much more fun.
Mid Level (5-8)
NO DATA
High Level (9-12)
Calvin without Hobbes (RIP)- This was emulating (unsuccessfully) a druid as the last victim in the 12th level TPK. Wish I'd have run this one in test two, because a fey zealot would have at least had druid spells to be a better fit. This was by far the most noticable downgrade. No 5th and 6th level spells, no tiger companion, no wild shape, same AB and HP, slightly better armor, not a lot of boost from the 3 talents outside spells to make up for those deficiencies. I think test two zealots were at least a bit more interesting, but I think the downgrade of this character made it very clear how weak this class really was.
Hill Giant Zealot - Unfortunately, my hill giant Zealot 9 never got to defend his stairs. We didn't get a level 10-11 party together to run through this one...so this one wasn't to be. He was created for playtest 1, so he was very unimpressive anyway. Losing a bunch of 4th and 5th level buffs really made this fight a lot less epic, so it was likely to be a disappointment once it hit the table. Even though it was theory crafted, I put this here because I wanted to note what a step down it always seemed to be when converting divine casters into Zealots.
Summary
Zealot has one awesome gimmick right now (vanishing step) and then got pretty uninspiring from there. Lots of potential, so I hope we will see a lot of development here, but at this point I can't see any reason to ever take this over Warpriest, Cleric and Oracle, since those are already 3/4 BAB, have as good or better spells, and have more talents and abilities. Still, it's a 6th level caster, so it can't be terrible, even if there are better options. I just hope the gap gets closed with the alternatives.
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16
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There are actually more vigilantes in the pool of characters I've played, played with, or GMed for, but I tried to limit commentary on things that had a point of interest or used an ability that didn't generally get used in other playtests. With a large percentage of playtests being level 1, I could go on and on about level 1 characters, but I think I posted more than enough on that topic. Very few made level 2 either due to deaths or getting bored of the character and trying to start over again with something different.
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16
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Social Aspects Q&A
1) I played this and really liked this, and here is why.
I liked that the the social abilities of the class were broken up into customizable talents. I think this is a good framework for the social aspects of this class, and leaves plenty of room to expand the class.
2) I played this and didn't like this, and here is why.
I wish there was more choice in how social abilities worked and fit together. At this point, although there are choices, there really aren't a lot of meaningful choices due to the small number of talents, especially at low levels. I don't like that I'm forced to have a social identity. I think that should be just another social talent, and a prerequisit for some of the other social talents that could chain off of it. I don't like that as designed right now, the social identity and the social talents have little to no impact on the game at any levels we played.
3) I played this, and really wish I could do this.
I wish I could use my social traits to do more in the game. I wish I could build a vigilante with social aspects without a secret identity.
4) I played this, and really don't understand how this is supposed to work.
Maybe all the new rules in Ultimate Intrigue will change this, but I still don't see how the vigilante fits into most games. The two identities are more of a hindrance than a help if they get used at all in most cases.
5) I played this and felt like I really enhanced the party and this is why.
I don't feel like I ever saw social identities or social traits add to the party as well. Once people figured out that the +4 could be a profession though, social grace did add to people's day jobs, making individuals slightly more money though.
6) I played this and didn't feel like I added to the party and this is why.
As stated in the previous section, I don't think I ever saw the social identity actually benefit a party. It was more of a roadblock of (I'm in the wrong identity) than any kind of benefit. I saw whole parties or individual characters remain in social identities for entire adventures, but I don't think the social identity even was much help in those cases.
Avenger Q&A
1) I played this and really liked this, and here is why.
I liked the option to be a more skilled fighter. My biggest problem with the fighter class has always been the lack of skillpoints, so this gives me an option to ALMOST be able to build the same things, but at the same time, to be able to build out the skill set to do more out of combat stuff too. Although I'm not too impressed with the talent list as a whole, there are a few nice talents in the list that you can build a character around and have some fun with, doing things not every other martial can.
2) I played this and didn't like this, and here is why.
This specialty was awful at level 1, bringing absolutely nothing to the table to stand out at all. Every other class, or even specialties has SOMETHING that helps it stand out from other classes at level 1. The level 1 avenger was the most vanilla of vanilla characters mechanically.
After that, I always felt like I was trying to play catch up to fighter builds. Whatever I was building towards, a fighter was usually going to be one feat ahead of me to making it.
3) I played this, and really wish I could do this.
I wish he had something built in to use intimidate/psychology to his advantage. This could be as simple as a +hit/damage when attacking shaken/frightened/panicked foes or something like the ability to stack or extend intimidations. Of the specialties, the stalker seems to be the one with the most glaring hole when it comes to intimidation.
I also wish he had some more defense to help make up for lack of hitpoints. I don't think he should get more hitpoints, the low hit points, although a disadvantage, is unique among full BAB characters, and I like unique. However, some ways to protect those HP are needed. Unkillable already gives an option for the gritty hero who is resiliant and just refuses to give up. I'd like to see an alternative for the more skilled heroes who mix it up in a fight without getting beat to a pulp. Evasion as a talent would seem to be a good fit, as well as needing some way to roll with the hits to reduce or prevent damage.
4) I played this, and really don't understand how this is supposed to work.
Both the envinonment weapon and suckerpunch abilities have always seemed like a bit of a trap. I'm trying to figure out when these are worth taking over the other options available, even if the other options are just a combat feat. I understand the mechanics of each, but not what they add to the overall class. They seem too limited, too situational, and as a result too weak to spend limited resources on.
5) I played this and felt like I really enhanced the party and this is why.
The skills made the character a better contributor out of combat than a fighter. Even if you don't go social, you have enough skills to climb, jump, swim, stealth, spot stuff, and ride. These are all things I'd somewhat expect the party fighter to be able to do outside mechanics, but mechanically they never could do even half that stuff, or at least they couldn't do well as you leveled up.
At higher levels, Vital Punishment was a cool thing others couldn't do at all, and mad rush gave a pounce like attack. Offensively, the Avenger was able to do most of the stuff a pure fighter build could do, even if the hit/damage wasn't quite as good.
6) I played this and didn't feel like I added to the party and this is why.
At level one, although the avenger could hit things, he couldn't hit things as well as ANY of the other martial classes. Everything else has some gimmick that's special for them even if it's as simple as an extra combat feat for the fighter. The Avenger literally had nothing to offer in combat that someone else didn't already do as good or more likely, better.
At higher levels, the Avenger continues to play as a weak fighter with more out of combat skills. He needs another talent or two that can give the class something special that others don't already do better. (Vital Punishment is the best example right now. More options to build around instead of vital punishment are needed.)
Stalker Q&A
1) I played this and really liked this, and here is why.
The talent selection is phenominal. There are so many different ways to build this specialization, it will be a long time before running out of ideas, and you don't need two stalkers to be alike. There is a good mix of combat and non-combat talents to choose from, and a number of them have really nice synergies to allow you to build around a character concept/theme.
2) I played this and didn't like this, and here is why.
Level 1 is really bad with this class. Not avenger bad...you do have hidden strike, but stalkers always seemed lacking at level 1. Even chained rogues seemed like a stronger option at that point. At level 2, the stalker gets a talent and can then do something cool that others don't do, but until that first talent hits, the class is pretty boring actually.
3) I played this, and really wish I could do this.
I really wish I could take more talents. The stalker has soooo many cool possibilities, that you will always be wishing for just one or two more talents to do cool stuff. Lots of the very thematic and plain cool talents won't get to see near enough play just because it's too hard to fit them in a build right now.
4) I played this, and really don't understand how this is supposed to work.
I think all questions on this one have been covered.
5) I played this and felt like I really enhanced the party and this is why.
Once the stalker gets a trait or two under their belt, they have lots of interesting ways to contribute. They can focus on extra attacks, or things more subtle like dirty tricks to remove DR, or maneuverability and positioning options. Once past level 1, I hardly ever felt like this class couldn't do something to help the party. Just realize it isn't a rogue...and that comes with downsides along with the upsides. Playing a stalker like a rogue is a good way to get killed.
6) I played this and didn't feel like I added to the party and this is why.
Level 1 was already covered. The class just doesn't get interesting until level 2, where it's contribution potential goes up immensly. I think the biggest hinderance to contributions though was the difficulty in determining "unaware". Lots of GM interpretation right now, and most scenarios make it difficult to get the drop on the enemy in many encounters. This means hidden strike doesn't get that burst very often, and some of the talents depending on "unaware" enemies aren't able to be used.
Warlock Q&A
1) I played this and really liked this, and here is why.
Tatoo chamber is my favorite part of this entire specialty. Always having one or more wands at the ready is a much bigger boost than I think people know. It meant I always could get a shield spell up for a fight. It meant I had emergency cover from something like obscuring mist. It meant I could be ready to give my party some boosts like enlarge person or magic weapon. I only wish I could take this trait twice to put a tatoo on my other arm as well! Heck, if I could take even more tatoos, I could see building around this. (Maybe an archtype is needed with some elements of the tatooed sorcerer mixed with the ability to have multiple tatooed chambers...could be fun.) I found this to be the only mechanic that made the warlock stand out and contribute consistently over the course of an adventure.
Although my experience was using it with an NPC who could blow all his daily resources in one fight, I LOVED educated defense. This one hasn't gotten much attention, on the boards, but this talent is phenominal. I think it would be less useful for a PC since you'd have more resource constraints, but this one is definitely worth a 6th level talent. I would definitely take this over the more popular mystic bolt right now. It's like a get out of jail free card (or two) and would likely see use at least once in every scenario, and can completely turn a fight against a caster by destroying their first round, and possibly second round of casting.
2) I played this and didn't like this, and here is why.
The spellcasting mechanic made level 1-3 really weak. After being frustrated with casters when I tried to build more like casters, I found that the most satisfying builds were to ignore your casting and build as if you were a warrior. If you actually used a spell, that was a bonus, but you didn't have enough of them to depend on them. I didn't get to play or see enough Warlocks at higher levels, but this didn't seem like a problem that was going to go away. (The exception to my warrior mode was spamming wands all day with Tatoo chamber.)
3) I played this, and really wish I could do this.
I wish I could build a non-casting warlock. There really are some cool talents (and very powerful ones in some cases), but since they are all single talent investments, it is never worth giving up your spellcasting for them, making arcane training a false choice.
I wish a mystic bolt chain of talents made a mystic bolt build a viable alternative.
I wish a bomb chain of talents could make a bomb build a viable alternative.
I wish a blood chain of talents could make a blood warrior build a viable alternative.
I wish a shadow chain of talents could make a shadow build a viable alternative.
I wish a simulacrum chain of talents could make a viable build as an alternative.
I wish a chain of defensive/counterspell talents (with educated defense as the cornerstone) would make an anti-caster build a viable alternative.
Basically I want some reason to build a warlock without taking arcane training. It doesn't have to be the optimal build, just a justifiable build. Single talents let you cherry pick the best and keep your casting, so why give up casting. Chain talents with prereqs or synergistic talents make you make hard choices if they are a strong enough alternative.
4) I played this, and really don't understand how this is supposed to work.
N/A
5) I played this and felt like I really enhanced the party and this is why.
Even though you don't get many spells, spells almost always can contribute. With two warlocks and a zealot in a party in reign of winter, it meant resist elements for all, ignoring some pretty nasty weather effects.
Tatoo chamber letting me spam wands without having them in hand seemed to let me contribute more than anything else my character was able to do.
From the bad guy side, as stated above, educated defense was huge, and if that NPC warlock had any offensive potential at all to take advantage of the PC casters not getting their spells off, then that fight could have been nasty.
6) I played this and didn't feel like I added to the party and this is why.
Warlock spellcasting always seemed underwhelming. Played a lot of level 1-3, and had some tests and adventures at the 6-7 range, and warlocks were always lagging big time. Tatoo chamber was great with cheap wands at low levels. However, as you get into higher levels, the cost of wands makes spamming them a far less viable strategy, so the warlock really didn't scale well at all. (He was terrible in the level 12 test fights we did.)
Zealot Q&A
1) I played this and really liked this, and here is why.
Vanishing step was the greatest ability in any vigilante at low level. Unfortunately, this has made Fey into THE option for vigilantes. The alternate spell list was also awesome. (Meaning Fey is even a stronger choice.) I hope that there are many more awesome power sources to make cool Zealots around when the rest of the class is published.
2) I played this and didn't like this, and here is why.
Spellcasting was really weak compared to any other casters. There were big gaps in spellcasting advancement, and during those gaps the Zealot (like the warlock) just fell behind everyone else in usefulness. The non-spellcasting talents aren't strong enough to replace divine power, and they are so all over the place, it's hard to come up with unifying themese to build around. For the few zealot concepts I tried to build, it was hard to find talents that could fit together in most of those themes.
3) I played this, and really wish I could do this.
Vanishing step was great at 1...but I didn't know where to go with the class from there. I found myself really wishing there were more nature styled talent options. Tracking/Swift Tracking? Favored terrains (maybe one that self scales so you get your extra terrains later only having to select the talent once?) An animal companion? Limited wild shape? Hunter Tricks (from the Skirmisher or Wild Child archtypes)? Trap setting? Animal Focus? Obviously not all of these would fit into the class, but they are all possible directions that I'd like to be able to take a character. Basically, nature stuff is largely ignored in the vigilante class currently. Since the Fey power source is connected to the zealot, it's the obvious place I'd like to see more nature options become choices to build on the theme.
I hope there will be more power sources introduced, and with those power sources, I hope there will be multiple thematic talent options. (Among those new power sources, I hope to see a "self-powered" zealot, whos driven on his own rage, ki, or whatever...not needing angels, demons, or fey to grant him strength.)
4) I played this, and really don't understand how this is supposed to work.
How exactly does the empower symbol work? Is the caster level your current vigilante level, meaning that it works for 2 hours X your level without using another standard action? Does the effect basically move around with you (and your holy symbol) for the rest of that duration? Since you now have a mobile effect, what happens when it comes into the area of a concecrate/desecrate effect for another diety? Since you are now powered by a "source" instead of a diety, is your concecration effect even tied to a diety? Could an atheist vigilante (which is said to be possible in the alignment restrictions) carrying a rock as his symbol able to use this, or does this ability require a god to back you since it says it uses a "holy symbol" specifically.
5) I played this and felt like I really enhanced the party and this is why.
Using a halberd and vanishing step I was able to disrupt enemy tactics and hand out attacks of opportunity like crazy, forcing the enemy to split their group, and generally causing chaos. I also used my 2 spells for endure elements on 2 party memebers. That level 1 contribution was the most contribution I saw out of a zealot at any level.
6) I played this and didn't feel like I added to the party and this is why.
Spellcasting was so limited, that I gave up my spells to let our warlocks keep a little bit more firepower (since they were limited too.) It seems like this character is mostly designed to be a support character, but it doesn't seem to be all that good at any particular aspect of support.
I was going to make one of these for my warlock playtests, but after reading Thrawn007's review I don't think I could do one better. My results mirror his pretty closely, though he seems to have had more play time in it from a GM's side. Great review Thrawn007, thanks.