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I'm trying to find if this is legal in pathfinder society and if so how for a gunslinger.
Order of operations is important. Keep in mind you can swap a weapon from hand to hand as a free action.
So, assuming both pistols are out and loaded, and you're doing a full attack:
Shoot gun 1 with left hand
Shoot gun 2 with right hand
Store gun 2 in glove on right hand
Reload gun 1 in left hand with right hand
Eject gun 2 from glove
Switch gun 1 to right hand, gun 2 to left hand
Store gun 1 in glove on right hand
Reload gun 2 in left hand with right hand
Eject gun 1 from glove
Repeat until you're out of attacks or everything is dead.
Is there a limit to the number of free actions that is legally allowed in pathfinder and if there is a limit then what is it, because I can't seem to find the rules on number of free actions allowed to a player in a round. Can't find a type of free action limit either, for instance number of times you can draw weapons in a round, number of times you can reload a pistols in a round etc, number of times you can swap weapons from hand to hand in a round, etc. Anyone have a link to those rules?
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The only limits to free actions are GM discretion.
Example: your example listed about 7 free actions in order to add a second round of attacks with indications there will be more on the way when levels allow.
talking is a free action, but I wouldn't ever allow 7 free voice related free actions in a round. 6 secs is all you get.
If you brought this to my table I'd set a maximum limit of 2 free actions per appendage, but expect your milage to vary by GMs and expect an odd look or two when you ask.
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To the OP, builds like this are fun to theorycraft, but they're highly impractical to pull off. You didn't factor in the chance for misfires, which will only increase as you add more attacks. Financially, it's possible, if you start with 10 or 11 levels of GM credit, but speaking from experience of trying this myself, and watching others try, you're really better off just going with one gun. Make it double barrelled, even, if you're unhappy with your regular rate of fire.
Besides that, yes, in PFS any GM can limit your # of free actions to what they consider to be "reasonable". The FAQ used to define this as "3", but that was removed over a year ago amongst much consternation from the playerbase.
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My example allows for semicomplex actions during a 6 second period. Reloading a bow x number of times would count as 1 use rather than 1 use each. Otherwise feats like snapshot are useless as you can't take free actions like drawing an arrow when it's not your turn.
I'd like to drop my wand in my right hand.
Then fire an arrow, give the enemy the, middle finger, shoot another arrow, swap my bow to my other hand, pick my nose, swap weapon hand again, and shoot again.
Gm: make a reflex save.
Player: against what?
Gm: holds up Beastiary... This. Throws book.
As in my earlier post, free actions are limited by GM discretion. Nothing more, nothing less.
"Buy a bunch of guns" I don't think is really viable considering how expensive guns are.
Hand crossbows, on the other hand, you might be able to pull off. Of course, then you have to justify how you have 25 loaded hand crossbows on your person.
To answer the original question, there is not a hard limit on free actions per round. However, taking a lot of free actions as a martial character is something that DMs usually find breaks their immersion. Wizards slinging fireballs around doesn't... but that's a discussion for another thread.
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First of all, I assume you are talking about using a Glove of Storing? You never actually stated this in your post, but it's what I'm getting from your description.
The problem you'll have will probably be with:
Switch gun 1 to right hand, gun 2 to left hand
While transferring an item from one hand to another available hand is a free action, GMs might frown on a simultaneous swap like this, as it's significantly more complicated.
Damn, now you are making me think:
- Per previous discussions on Dual Wielding Firearms, my understanding is you do not have to alternate shots (you can take all your main hand attacks in order, and then take all your offhand attacks in order).
- As such, the 'usual' pistol process is to fire all your 'main hand' shots using your empty offhand to reload, then drop your mainhand, quickdraw your offhand pistol, and fire all your offhand shots (the next round requires either another pistol you can quickdraw for your main hand or some method of getting the dropped pistol back into your main hand without an action (Pre-nerf weapon cord, familiar, extra hand, prehensile tail, etc.)).
- So, the question is: why have an offhand pistol at all? Why not move your MH weapon to your offhand, and just keep attacking with it?
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It's because you need to be wielding two weapons to two weapon fight. You can't just have one gun and switch it over.
The appropriate rule from the PRD is 'If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon' so you are indeed correct. Realistically, however, if any of the pistol juggling tricks work, then the single pistol hand swap trick should work as well (if you are deliberately swapping weapons between hands, does it really matter if you're only swapping one weapon?).
Oh well, I figured there must have been a rule against it somewhere but was too lazy to look it up at the time.
Back on the original topic, I still the the OP will have issues swapping both pistols simultaneously, as it pretty much requires taking two free actions requiring the same body parts at exactly same time.
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So for example a level 12 gunslinger takes a full round action to fire his pistol, with haste and has rapid shot, rapid reload feats could they fire a single shot pistol or rifle at least 5 times in a round correct or can a GM say that's too many free actions to load the gun? Trying to figure out how many shots a gunslinger can fire without a GM being able to step in, since bow and crossbow shooters seem to be able to fire their full amounts.
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There is no airtight ruleset on this as free actions are ultimately up to the GM.
If you can reload as a free action, I would allow you to reload as fast as you could shoot if you have a hand free to accomplish it. I am pretty conservative in my rulings so I estimate you are 95% safe. I think the remainder of the time is easily worked out with explaining your investments to the GM before game time or playing an alternate character if absolutely required.
As anecdotal evidence, you wouldn't have any problem with the group's I have played with.
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You would think there should be some sort of airtight minimum amount of free actions allowed, in pfs, since it's so about following the rules. If there isn't then a gm could disallow my example above about the level 12 gunslinger saying that's too many free actions, but then wouldn't he also have to disallow a slinger, crossbow archer or bow archer that amount free actions too or it would be unfair?
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There will never be an "airtight minimum" of free actions defined in PFS.
The last time that happened, in the general FAQ, the forums did a communal table flip and got the FAQ deleted.
99% of the time, a Gunslinger will have no hangups when it comes to GMs allowing them to full attack. For the 1% you may encounter, just avoid playing at their tables.
Honestly in three years of PFS I've never heard of this sort of limitation occurring. You're better off posting about it happening rather than worrying if it will happen.
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Also what if you have a revolver which holds 6 rounds. When you reload a weapon does it only reload one chamber, all chamber , or is there a quick reload which you can use like the kind the police use that loads all 6 rounds in one reload? Wouldn't using alchemical cartridges help too?
Advanced Firearms like revolvers DO NOT EXIST in PFS.
Also, note that pistols are not 'light' weapons, so dual-wielding them involves a -4 penalty to all your attack rolls (which is usually not a big issue when you are rolling against touch AC).
Typical Dual-Wielding Pistol setup:
Start of fight:
- Primary Pistol in Main Hand with a Glove of Storing
- Off hand empty (for reloading)
- Secondary Pistol holstered with a weapon cord.
- Training in Quick Draw feat is required
Round 1 (assuming target is within one range increment):
- Take all Iterative attacks with your Main Hand, using your empty Offhand to Reload.
- Free Action to move your Primary Pistol to your Glove.
- Free Action to Quick Draw your Secondary Pistol with your Off Hand.
- Take all your Offhand Attacks, using your empty Main Hand to reload.
Round 2:
- Take all your Offhand Attacks, using your empty Main Hand to reload.
- Free Action to drop your Secondary Pistol to leave your Offhand empty.
- Free Action to restore your Primary Pistol to your Main Hand from your Glove.
- Take all Iterative attacks with your Main Hand, using your empty Offhand to Reload.
Now, you have three different paths you can take from here:
Round 3a:
- Take a Standard Attack (one shot) with your Primary Pistol in your Main Hand, using your empty Off Hand to reload.
- Free Action to stow your Primary Pistol in your Glove.
- Move Action to recover your Secondary Pistol from your Weapon Cord to your Offhand.
- From here, loop back to the 'Round 2' process, allowing you to alternate between full dual-wielding attack rounds and single shot rounds.
- Take all Iterative attacks with your Main Hand, using your empty Offhand to Reload.
- Repeat this round, taking full non-dual-wielding attacks until all enemies are dead, there is a break in the battle that lets you recover and re-holster your Secondary Pistol, or you just decide to try one of the other 'Round 3' options.
- Take all Iterative attacks with your Main Hand, using your empty Offhand to Reload.
- Free Action to move your Primary Pistol to your Glove.
- Free Action to Quick Draw an additional Pistol with your Off Hand.
- Take all your Offhand Attacks, using your empty Main Hand to reload.
- From here, loop back to the 'Round 2' Process, allowing you to maintain a full dual-wielding attack routine until you run out of pistols
Some of the 'extreme' variations you might see include:
- Choosing a Tiefling with the Prehensile Tail option for your race (no longer available without a boon), allowing you to hold one of your pistols in your tail while using its hand to reload your other pistol.
- Dipping into Alchemist to get the 'vestigial arm' discovery, giving you a third hand to hold one pistol while you reload the other.
- Dipping into a class that grants you a familiar that can pick up a pistol when you drop it and bring it back to you.
Finally, please note that this routine is only valid for the last third or so of the typical PFS career: You won't meet the Fame requirement to actually purchase a Glove of Storing until 6th or 7th level on average.
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Nefreet I was about to say I know a gm who wont give the gunslinger that many attacks like I mentioned, since they say that's too many free actions. I was trying to see if there is a minimum amount of free actions that have to be given, but if a limit is put on the gunslinger then it has to apply to all players right?