Building and progressing a Zealot Vigilante

[Vrog Skyreaver]

Thread number two of four planned to take a look at how I would build a zealot.

Spoilering build by level to keep things neat. Without further ado, I give you the Fist of God:

Level 1:

The Fist of God
Half-Orc Vigilante 1
TN (Social)/NG (Vigilante)

Stats:
Str 16
Dex 10
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 10
Cha 16

HP 12
AC 17 T 10 FF 10
BAB 0 CMB +3 CMD 13
Init
Fort +4
Ref +4
Will +4

Speed 20'

Class Features:
Dual identity, social grace (Disguise), vigilante specialization (Zealot)

Skills:
Intimidate r1 +7
Diplomacy r1 +7
Disguise r1 +7 (31 in Social)
Bluff r1 +7
Knowledge (Religion) r1 +4
Stealth r1 +4/-3

Feats:
Toughness
Endurance

Traits:
Fate's Favored
Sacred Conduit

Alternate Racial Traits:
Sacred Tattoo
Shaman's Apprentice

Gear:
Scalemail
Heavy Wood Shield
Longsword

Spells/day: -/2

Spells:
0: Brand, Detect Magic, Disrupt Undead, Guidance
1: Divine Favor, Cure Light Wounds, Tireless Pursuit

Longsword: +3 to hit; 1d8+3 damage; 19-20/x2 crit.

Pretty much the same as any divine caster, except that 6+ skills don't exactly hurt, and the bonus to reflex saves is interesting as well.

level 5:

The Fist of God
Half-Orc Vigilante 5
TN (Social)/NG (Vigilante)

Stats:
Str 17
Dex 10
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 10
Cha 16

HP 48
AC 22 T 12 FF 22
BAB 3 CMB +6 CMD 18
Init 0
Fort +5
Ref +6
Will +6

Speed 20'

Class Features:
Dual identity, social grace (Disguise), vigilante specialization (Zealot), Renown (lesser), Startling Appearance, Vigilante Talents: Life Bond (4/day), Channel Energy (DC 18; 1d6; 7/day)

Skills:
Intimidate r5 +11 (+15 within 5 miles of my area of renown)
Diplomacy r5 +11
Disguise r5 +11 (35 in Social)
Bluff r5 +11
Knowledge (Religion) r5 +8
Stealth r5 +8/4

Feats:
Toughness
Endurance
Diehard
Improved Channel

Traits:
Fate's Favored
Sacred Conduit

Alternate Racial Traits:
Sacred Tattoo
Shaman's Apprentice

Gear:
+1 Breastplate (1350 gp)
+1 Heavy Wood Shield (1157 gp)
+1 Longsword (2315 gp)
Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier (5000 gp)
178 gp

Spells/day: -/2

Spells:
0: Brand, Detect Magic, Disrupt Undead, Guidance, Acid Splash
1: Divine Favor, Cure Light Wounds, Tireless Pursuit, Wrath

Longsword: +6 to hit; 1d8+4 damage; 19-20/x2 crit.

Okay, so I could have gone spellcasting, but I decided to delay it a bit to get channeling instead. His DC is pretty good, and only going to get better in his level 10 iteration. Right now, he's on par with a tanky cleric. His saves are not horrible.

Level 10:

The Fist of God
Half-Orc Vigilante 10
TN (Social)/NG (Vigilante)

Stats:
Str 18/20
Dex 10
Con 14/16
Int 10
Wis 10
Cha 16/20

HP 103
AC 28 T 13 FF 28
BAB 7 CMB +12 CMD 25
Init 0
Fort +9
Ref +10
Will +10

Speed 20'

Class Features:
Dual identity, social grace (Disguise, Bluff, Intimidate), vigilante specialization (Zealot), Renown (Greater), Startling Appearance, Loyal Aid, Many Guises, Vigilante Talents: Life Bond (4/day), Channel Energy (DC 26; 3d6; 9/day), Empower Symbol, Divine Training II, Divine Training III

Skills:
Intimidate r10 +18 (22 in social; +24 within 10 miles of my area of renown)
Diplomacy r10 +18
Disguise r10 +18 (42 in social; +38 with many guises)
Bluff r10 +18 (22 in social)
Knowledge (Religion) r10 +13
Stealth r10 +13/7

Feats:
Toughness
Endurance
Diehard
Improved Channel
Selective Channel
Heavy Armor Proficiency

Traits:
Fate's Favored
Sacred Conduit

Alternate Racial Traits:
Sacred Tattoo
Shaman's Apprentice

Gear:
+2 Fullplate (5650 gp)
+2 Channeling Heavy Wood Shield (22,157 gp)
+1 Greyflame Longsword (8315 gp)
Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier (5000 gp)
+1 Ring of Protection (2000 gp)
+1 Cloak of Resistance (1000 gp)
+2 Belt of Physical Might (Str/Con) (10,000 gp)
+4 Headband of Charisma (16,000 gp)
Wand of Cure Light Wounds (750 gp)
128 gp

Spells/day: -/6/5/2

Spells:
0: Brand, Detect Magic, Disrupt Undead, Guidance, Acid Splash
1: Divine Favor, Cure Light Wounds, Tireless Pursuit, Wrath, Bless
2: Cure Moderate Wounds, Follow Aura, Honeyed Tongue, Align Weapon, Perceive Cues
3: Cure Serious Wounds, Hidden Speech, Heroism, Invisibility Purge

Longsword: +13/8 to hit; 1d8+6 damage; 19-20/x2 crit.

Empower symbol adds 6 to my channel DC (I wonder now if I shouldn't go with negative channeling on this build). More spells don't suck. Continues to have good, well-rounded saves, even with two of the three stats for those saves being a 10. Fullplate gives me a pretty good ac for my level.

Level 15:

The Fist of God
Half-Orc Vigilante 15
TN (Social)/NG (Vigilante)

Stats:
Str 18/20
Dex 10
Con 14/16
Int 10
Wis 10
Cha 17/21

HP 153 DR 3/-
AC 36 T 15 FF 36
BAB 11 CMB +16 CMD 31
Init 0
Fort +13
Ref +14
Will +14

Speed 30'

Class Features:
Dual identity, social grace (Disguise, Intimidate, Bluff, Diplomacy), vigilante specialization (Zealot), Renown (True), Frightening Appearance, Loyal Aid, Many Guises, Quick Change, Vigilante Talents: Life Bond (6/day), Channel Energy (DC 31; 6d6; 11/day), Empower Symbol, Divine Training II, Divine Training III, Revivifying Touch, Stalwart

Skills:
Intimidate r15 +23 (27 in social; 31 within 15 miles of my area of renown)
Diplomacy r15 +23 (+27 in social)
Disguise r15 +23 (+47 in social; +43 with many guises)
Bluff r15 +23 (+27 in social)
Knowledge (Religion) r15 +18
Stealth r15 +18

Feats:
Toughness
Endurance
Diehard
Improved Channel
Extra Channel
Heavy Armor Proficiency
Weapon Focus (Longsword)
Antagonize
Selective Channel

Traits:
Fate's Favored
Sacred Conduit

Alternate Racial Traits:
Sacred Tattoo
Shaman's Apprentice

Gear:
+5 Adamantine Fullplate (41,500 gp)
+5 Channeling Mithral Heavy Shield (44,565 gp)
+5 Greyflame Adamantine Longsword (75,015 gp)
Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier (5000 gp)
+3 Ring of Protection (18,000 gp)
+3 Cloak of Resistance (9000 gp)
+2 Belt of Physical Might (Str/Con) (10,000 gp)
+4 Headband of Charisma (16,000 gp)
Ring of Protected Life (9000 gp)
Boots of Striding and Springing (5500 gp)
6420 gp

Spells/day: -/6/5/2

Spells:
0: Brand, Detect Magic, Disrupt Undead, Guidance, Acid Splash
1: Divine Favor, Cure Light Wounds, Tireless Pursuit, Wrath, Bless
2: Cure Moderate Wounds, Follow Aura, Honeyed Tongue, Align Weapon, Perceive Cues
3: Cure Serious Wounds, Hidden Speech, Heroism, Invisibility Purge

Longsword: +22/17/12 to hit; 1d8+10 damage; 19-20/x2 crit.

Pretty solid in the tanky department. Revivifying touch gives me 2 breath of lifes a day. My channeling finally gets solid (although I initially had quick channel, I decided that Antagonize was a better feat for what I was trying to do).

Level 20:

The Fist of God
Half-Orc Vigilante 20
TN (Social)/NG (Vigilante)

Stats:
Str 22/28
Dex 10
Con 18/24
Int 10
Wis 10
Cha 24/30

HP 283 DR 3/-
AC 39 T 18 FF 39
BAB 15 CMB +24 CMD 41
Init +2
Fort +20
Ref +19
Will +19

Speed 30'

Class Features:
Dual identity, social grace (Disguise, Intimidate, Bluff, Diplomacy, Knowledge: Religion), vigilante specialization (Zealot), Renown (True), Stunning Appearance, Loyal Aid, Many Guises, Quick Change, Everyman, Vengeance Strike, Vigilante Talents: Life Bond (6/day), Channel Energy (DC 39; 8d6; 15/day), Empower Symbol, Divine Training II, Divine Training III, Revivifying Touch, Stalwart, Divine Training IV, Divine Training V, Divine Training VI

Skills:
Intimidate r20 +35 (39 in Social; +43 within 20 miles of my area of renown)
Diplomacy r20 +35 (39 in Social)
Disguise r20 +35 (59 in Social; 55 with many guises)
Bluff r20 +35 (39 in Social)
Knowledge (Religion) r20 +25 (29 in Social)
Stealth r20 +38/33
Untrained 2 + stat

Feats:
Toughness
Endurance
Diehard
Improved Channel
Extra Channel
Heavy Armor Proficiency
Weapon Focus (Longsword)
Quick Channel
Selective Channel
Tenacious Survivor
Deathless Initiate

Traits:
Fate's Favored
Sacred Conduit

Alternate Racial Traits:
Sacred Tattoo
Shaman's Apprentice

Gear:
+5 Greater Shadow Adamantine Fullplate (75,250 gp)
+5 Channeling Mithral Heavy Shield (44,565 gp)
+5 Greyflame, Holy, Adamantine Longsword (131,015 gp)
Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier (5000 gp)
+5 Ring of Protection (50,000 gp)
+5 Cloak of Resistance (25,000 gp)
+6 Belt of Physical Might (Str/Con) (90,000 gp)
+6 Headband of Charisma (36,000 gp)
Ring of Protected Life (9000 gp)
Boots of Striding and Springing (5500 gp)
Vestments of War (14,000 gp)
Luckstone (20,000 gp)
+4 strength Manual (used) (110,000 gp)
+4 Con Manual (Used) (110,000 gp)
+5 Charisma Tome (Used) (137500 gp)
Dusty Rose Prism Ioun Stone (5000 gp)
12170 gp

Spells/day: -/7/7/6/6/6/3

Spells:
0: Brand, Detect Magic, Disrupt Undead, Guidance, Acid Splash, Sift
1: Divine Favor, Cure Light Wounds, Tireless Pursuit, Wrath, Bless, Burst Bonds
2: Cure Moderate Wounds, Follow Aura, Honeyed Tongue, Align Weapon, Perceive Cues, Confess
3: Cure Serious Wounds, Hidden Speech, Heroism, Invisibility Purge, Righteous Vigor, Ward the Faithful
4: Cure Critical Wounds, Coward's Lament, Freedom of Movement, Greater Invisibility, Rebuke, Divine Power
5: Mass Cure Light Wounds, Disrupting Weapon, Resounding Blow, Righteous Might, True Seeing
6: Cleanse, Heal, Mass Cure Moderate Wounds, Harm, Blade Barrier

Longsword: +30/25/20 to hit; 1d8+14 damage; 19-20/x2 crit.

By this point, he's a pretty amazing tank. Solid AC and saves (well, except for his touch AC), Good skills, and good spellcasting mean that he's as offensive or defensive as he needs to be. I considered not taking divine training 6, but heal was too tempting a target to pass up. His channeling will almost never be resisted, and it is pretty good for spot healing.

Overall thoughts: the Zealot falls somewhere between paladin and cleric in terms of play style. He tools fairly easily into the tank role, and could play healer in any group. Empower symbol is one of his more powerful abilities (consecrate being a spell that is overlooked more often than not imo), and being able to have a permanent area of it is stellar. I imagine that a character that I would build for negative channeling would look almost identical, and would have a decent and almost unresistable ranged offense capability.

[Imbicatus]

The problem with channeling on the vigilante is while the DCs are high, the dice are pitifully small because of the level penalty. The Zealot is already penalized in spells and talents when compared to an inquisitor, at least they should have better channel options.

[Tuyena]

Imbicatus wrote:

The problem with channeling on the vigilante is while the DCs are high, the dice are pitifully small because of the level penalty. The Zealot is already penalized in spells and talents when compared to an inquisitor, at least they should have better channel options.

He's got it, you're also really up selling yourself at lvl 5, you're not comparable to a cleric at all at that level, they firmly are better than you with 3d6 channel Vs 1d6 and already having third level spells and two domains. Even if they channeled to harm undead and got resisted they'd still do more damage than your unresisted channel.

Then the higher level you go obviously the worse off you are as your spell casting continues to lag further and further behind.

The class is also not between a Paladin and Cleric, it lacks the clerics utility and the paladins offensive and defensive tools. We already have a class that's between Paladin and Cleric, called the Inquisitor. It's everything the Zealot wants to be, but isn't.

[M1k31]

Tuyena wrote:

Imbicatus wrote:

The problem with channeling on the vigilante is while the DCs are high, the dice are pitifully small because of the level penalty. The Zealot is already penalized in spells and talents when compared to an inquisitor, at least they should have better channel options.

He's got it, you're also really up selling yourself at lvl 5, you're not comparable to a cleric at all at that level, they firmly are better than you with 3d6 channel Vs 1d6 and already having third level spells and two domains. Even if they channeled to harm undead and got resisted they'd still do more damage than your unresisted channel.

Then the higher level you go obviously the worse off you are as your spell casting continues to lag further and further behind.

The class is also not between a Paladin and Cleric, it lacks the clerics utility and the paladins offensive and defensive tools. We already have a class that's between Paladin and Cleric, called the Inquisitor. It's everything the Zealot wants to be, but isn't.

Lets face it... it's not like spawn did any damage when channeling.... he only killed a few mook brethren. *Sarcasm*

[Imbicatus]

Actually, let's ignore the damage dice. If you take variant channeling to hit something with Ale/Wine or Rulership, and take empower symbol you can provide incredible crowd control.

[Tuyena]

Imbicatus wrote:

Actually, let's ignore the damage dice. If you take variant channeling to hit something with Ale/Wine or Rulership, and take empower symbol you can provide incredible crowd control.

A neat trick, is it worth the rest of the class being Badquisitor for a higher DC than a cleric? Who still has access to three more spell levels? Unfortunately it's not.

You could totally do it, as a fifth or sixth character when you already have an already viable spellcaster like a Life Oracle.

[M1k31]

Tuyena wrote:

Imbicatus wrote:

Actually, let's ignore the damage dice. If you take variant channeling to hit something with Ale/Wine or Rulership, and take empower symbol you can provide incredible crowd control.

A neat trick, is it worth the rest of the class being Badquisitor for a higher DC than a cleric? Who still has access to three more spell levels? Unfortunately it's not.

You could totally do it, as a fifth or sixth character when you already have an already viable spellcaster like a Life Oracle.

Another suggestion I posted elsewhere is for the most part keeping the channel as is but letting you take that talent up to 3x stackable and start taking it at level 2(giving 1/2 a clerics ability at that point, 2x if you take it again for level 4(as the effective cleric level for each is equal to his vigilante level – 4), allowing you to amass massive channeling over time better than a cleric(as each talent levels at the same rate as a normal cleric - 4 levels) but requiring heavy talent investment....

[Tuyena]

Let's see, using that idea, at level 6 fully invested into channeling you'd have 3d6, same as a cleric but no domains and only 1st level spells.

But, at 7th level you'd have 6d6 but only 1st level spells, but you finally are outpacing the cleric.

9 - 9d6 - 2nd level spells
11 - 12d6 - 3rd level spells
13 - 15d6 - 4th level spells
15 - 18d6 - 5th level spells
17 - 21d6 - 6th level spells
19 - 24d6

It's an interesting idea, but the spell progression is so so far behind though, especially since the class doesn't start pulling ahead until 7th level, at a time when yes the cleric is only channeling 4d6 to your 6d6, but has 4th level spells to your 1st level.

End result, I think it's still worse off as anything other than a fifth character, though it is something different atleast.

[M1k31]

Tuyena wrote:

Let's see, using that idea, at level 6 fully invested into channeling you'd have 3d6, same as a cleric but no domains and only 1st level spells.

But, at 7th level you'd have 6d6 but only 1st level spells, but you finally are outpacing the cleric.

9 - 9d6 - 2nd level spells
11 - 12d6 - 3rd level spells
13 - 15d6 - 4th level spells
15 - 18d6 - 5th level spells
17 - 21d6 - 6th level spells
19 - 24d6

It's an interesting idea, but the spell progression is so so far behind though, especially since the class doesn't start pulling ahead until 7th level, at a time when yes the cleric is only channeling 4d6 to your 6d6, but has 4th level spells to your 1st level.

End result, I think it's still worse off as anything other than a fifth character, though it is something different atleast.

I'm thinking more like you generally start investing only 2/3, and this would be tied in with my idea to shrink talents required for spell training to 3 talents, one for 2/3, one for 4, and one for 5/6... the gimmick with the ones for 4 and 5/6 being that you can alternatively change your level based "spells known/slots" for more low level spells... even if your Int/Cha cannot normally use those level of spell... as an alternate choice for each level of spell made as you pick the talent.

Note that a penalty to not meeting the prerequisites for the spell level in Int/Cha is that you get only half the number of "Spells known" from the high level spell added to the low level, and only 1x the spell slots added as opposed to the 1.5x the spell slots added to the lower level spell if you meet the requirement... these are gained if you meet the pre-requisite later.

This would make it so that most often you would add channel x2 and 2 & 3 level spells rather than just channel x3 at the outset... you can add more talents overall in combination with channel, making an interesting cleric-ish build possible where you track undead and kill them all quite easily... something this build seems like it should be built for.

edit: new example;

9 - 9d6 - 2nd & 3rd level spells
11 - 12d6 - 4th level spells
13 - 15d6 - Empower Symbol
15 - 18d6 - 5th level spells & 6th level spells
17 - 21d6
19 - 24d6

also note the number of channels would also be almost tripled[or at least doubled if tripled is too OP, making the secondary talents add only .5 the normal(not counting those your charisma bonus adds on the secondary's... as your Cha should only affect the first) each].

now add in "revifying touch"... you don't even need many healing spells for a monster Divine mage that can fight... or even go ahead and Eschew spells above level 3 for track and other combat centric abilities, making a CB monster who can tank, fight, protect civilians/NPC's and still heal like a boss while moving the party along...

[Tuyena]

The faster you provide spell access the more viable it becomes, and channeling negative energy gives you an interesting little walking bomb.

Not sure how I feel about more channeling uses like that though.

[M1k31]

Tuyena wrote:

The faster you provide spell access the more viable it becomes, and channeling negative energy gives you an interesting little walking bomb.

Not sure how I feel about more channeling uses like that though.

That's why I put it in that essentially it would need to be checked for balance overall, but it would make for a truly solid "superhero" build that has a lot of interesting options... go for spells... go for channels, go for combat buffs... essentially what I'm looking for with that high level channel is the highest level mage equivalency... something on the level of "spawn" who seems to be the Zealots basis, so yes, the extra channels is the least important part of that concept.

Or it could just add a "4 times per minute" limit on the channels after selecting it 2x, and a "2x per minute" limit once you have 3x the talent... making it a combat starter/ender that can be used each combat and afterwards if necessary, but requires strategic deployment and can still be used in multiple combats.