In PFSRD it states that druid needs to spend one hour in a trance-like meditaion to learn spells. Does the character also require a rest period to be able to do this after daily spells have been exhausted. i.e. Is it 1 + 8 hours or just 1 hour?
There are two competing rules here.
- A divine spellcaster chooses and prepares spells ahead of time, but unlike a wizard, does not require a period of rest to prepare spells.
- Recent Casting Limit: As with arcane spells, at the time of preparation any spells cast within the previous 8 hours count against the number of spells that can be prepared.
You don't need to rest, but you must do your main preparation at the same time each day (or as close to it as possible, should there be an interruption).
Flagged for wrong forum.
Thanks, worth thinking about, but Gosh! Flagged for wrong forum? I thought it was a Rules Question..... (Sorrry!)
Ah, well ... Questions... yes. I seem to remember something about all characters needing 8 hours rest (So, apart from Elves, needing less - 4 hours if I remember rightly). However, a Druid Player in a recent campaign told me he only needs the one hour. My memories may be attributed to DnD 3.5 but I would appreciate any other input.
Serisan, your first point DOES seem to indicate that one hour is enough to relearn, as long as the DAILY LIMIT is adhered to. Does that make sense?
twigs
The other thing to point out is you can't cast more than the normally allotted spells in a 24 hour time frame. You can't cast all your spells are re-prepare them for an hour and get them all back.
It kind of seemed like that idea might have been flitting about, and just wanted to nip that in the bud.
That's cool. That's what I meant. :)
In other words, ability to learn spells at any time, after a period of one hour, as long as the 24 hour limit of "Spells per Day" is observed, although, as a house rule, I allow Spell per Day replenishment after an 8 hour rest.
:)
In other words, ability to learn spells at any time, after a period of one hour, as long as the 24 hour limit of "Spells per Day" is observed, although, as a house rule, I allow Spell per Day replenishment after an 8 hour rest.
:)
You shouldn't. It's very unfair to martial characters with little or no spell casting. The limit on spell casting is supposed to be a balance so that non-magical characters have a chance to show off.
By saying things like you can re-prepare spells after 8 hours of rest you create a loophole to be abused and really diminish the strength of classes that don't require magic to be effective. And trust me, this can be abused easily. I'm blanking on the name, but there is an item that lets you gain the effects of having slept for 8 hours by sleeping for only 2 hours. Do you really want to let you casters go nova 5 times a day because you changed the limitation?
Please don't do it. Caster are already powerful enough once you get to level 5 (though before that they can be on the weak side). That is the price to pay for vast cosmic power.
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The other thing to point out is you can't cast more than the normally allotted spells in a 24 hour time frame. You can't cast all your spells are re-prepare them for an hour and get them all back.
It kind of seemed like that idea might have been flitting about, and just wanted to nip that in the bud.
I don't play casters very often. Could you quote this 24-hour rule?
In other words, ability to learn spells at any time, after a period of one hour, as long as the 24 hour limit of "Spells per Day" is observed, although, as a house rule, I allow Spell per Day replenishment after an 8 hour rest.
:)
You shouldn't. It's very unfair to martial characters with little or no spell casting. The limit on spell casting is supposed to be a balance so that non-magical characters have a chance to show off.
By saying things like you can re-prepare spells after 8 hours of rest you create a loophole to be abused and really diminish the strength of classes that don't require magic to be effective. And trust me, this can be abused easily. I'm blanking on the name, but there is an item that lets you gain the effects of having slept for 8 hours by sleeping for only 2 hours. Do you really want to let you casters go nova 5 times a day because you changed the limitation?
Please don't do it. Caster are already powerful enough once you get to level 5 (though before that they can be on the weak side). That is the price to pay for vast cosmic power.
I believe the item you are remembering is the Ring of Sustenance.
Slot ring; Price 2,500 gp; Weight —
Description
This ring continually provides its wearer with life-sustaining nourishment. The ring also refreshes the body and mind; its wearer needs only sleep 2 hours per day to gain the benefit of 8 hours of sleep. This allows a spellcaster that requires rest to prepare spells to do so after only 2 hours, but this does not allow a spellcaster to prepare spells more than once per day. The ring must be worn for a full week before it begins to work. If it is removed, the owner must wear it for another week to reattune it to himself.
Construction Requirements
Forge Ring, create food and water; Cost 1,250 gp
I don't play casters very often. Could you quote this 24-hour rule?The other thing to point out is you can't cast more than the normally allotted spells in a 24 hour time frame. You can't cast all your spells are re-prepare them for an hour and get them all back.
It kind of seemed like that idea might have been flitting about, and just wanted to nip that in the bud.
Something like the following exists in every class with spell casting abilities.
A wizard can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on Table: Wizard. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Intelligence score (see Table: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells).
Why on Golarion would a spell per day limit mean anything other than the total amount of spells you can cast in 1 day?
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I don't play casters very often. Could you quote this 24-hour rule?The other thing to point out is you can't cast more than the normally allotted spells in a 24 hour time frame. You can't cast all your spells are re-prepare them for an hour and get them all back.
It kind of seemed like that idea might have been flitting about, and just wanted to nip that in the bud.
Something like the following exists in every class with spell casting abilities.
A wizard can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on Table: Wizard. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Intelligence score (see Table: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells).Why on Golarion would a spell per day limit mean anything other than the total amount of spells you can cast in 1 day?
Interesting! I was always under the impression that...
A wizard may know any number of spells. He must choose and prepare his spells ahead of time by getting 8 hours of sleep and spending 1 hour studying his spellbook. While studying, the wizard decides which spells to prepare.
meant that spell power was rejuvinated and spell slots restored after this 8 hour rest regardless of when it takes place. But you are saying that a new day must come about for these spells to be restored? How would this function on a plane where time is accelerated or slowed? Is it still locked to 24-hours and spells slots would eventually start coming back at different times during the day as a result?
The ability to cast a spell and the ability to prepare a spell are not the same thing. Not all classes prepare spells, but all classes have a daily limit of spells per day. All classes renew spell slots once per day.
Once a spell is prepared it uses that slot for the full day. If you cast the spell it can’t be used for something else because the slot is no longer available. Even if you don’t cast the spell it cannot be changed until the next day. The wizard cannot even abandon uncast spell until the day has gone by.
Casting Spells
Whether a spell is arcane or divine, and whether a character prepares spells in advance or chooses them on the spot, casting a spell works the same way.
Spell Selection and Preparation
Until he prepares spells from his spellbook, the only spells a wizard has available to cast are the ones that he already had prepared from the previous day and has not yet used. During the study period, he chooses which spells to prepare. If a wizard already has spells prepared (from the previous day) that he has not cast, she can abandon some or all of them to make room for new spells.
When preparing spells for the day, a wizard can leave some of these spell slots open. Later during that day, he can repeat the preparation process as often as he likes, time and circumstances permitting. During these extra sessions of preparation, the wizard can fill these unused spell slots. He cannot, however, abandon a previously prepared spell to replace it with another one or fill a slot that is empty because he has cast a spell in the meantime. That sort of preparation requires a mind fresh from rest. Like the first session of the day, this preparation takes at least 15 minutes, and it takes longer if the wizard prepares more than one-quarter of his spells.
The bolded sections make it clear that no matter how many times you prepare spells you can’t cast more than your daily limit of spells per day.
As to the worlds were time is different that is still one day. Not a single rule mentions 24 hours, they all specify a day. That would indicate you regain spells ever day based on the local day.
Interesting! I was always under the impression that...
A wizard may know any number of spells. He must choose and prepare his spells ahead of time by getting 8 hours of sleep and spending 1 hour studying his spellbook. While studying, the wizard decides which spells to prepare.meant that spell power was rejuvinated and spell slots restored after this 8 hour rest regardless of when it takes place. But you are saying that a new day must come about for these spells to be restored? How would this function on a plane where time is accelerated or slowed? Is it still locked to 24-hours and spells slots would eventually start coming back at different times during the day as a result?
As the mysterious stranger notes, nope.
Preparation is not the same as spells per day limit. You require 8 hours of rest to renew your spell slots, but you can only renew them once per day.
As for different flows of time, it's still locked to 24 hours.
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But you are saying that a new day must come about for these spells to be restored? How would this function on a plane where time is accelerated or slowed? Is it still locked to 24-hours and spells slots would eventually start coming back at different times during the day as a result?
Ask your GM.
A new day must come, but your GM is the ultimate arbitrator for corner cases like on a plane with different time characteristics.
But you are saying that a new day must come about for these spells to be restored? How would this function on a plane where time is accelerated or slowed? Is it still locked to 24-hours and spells slots would eventually start coming back at different times during the day as a result?Ask your GM.
A new day must come, but your GM is the ultimate arbitrator for corner cases like on a plane with different time characteristics.
Our table simply rules (when it comes up, which isn't often) that subjective time is controlling. If you've experienced 24 hours on the Plane of Corner Case Exemplars, you are probably very tired unless you spent at least eight of those subjective hours asleep, and probably very hungry unless you ate something during that time. If you did sleep, though, you had an opportunity to re-prep spells when you woke up.
It doesn't matter how time passed on the Prime Material plane. This makes it possible for you to recover spells in a few minutes if you plane shift to an appropriately fast-moving plane and then shift back, but that's a hell of a lot of work and rarely worth it. It also enables everyone to heal up. And, of course, the bad guy can do the same thing.
Being too strict with the 24 hours thing can cause its own set of issues: for example, if you have a staggered group of fights on day 1 lasting through the afternoon, the party is now out of action for the morning day 2 and must rest until evening day 2 to regain spells. This probably isn't intended as it forces the whole party to wait a full day between adventuring days.
Being too strict with the 24 hours thing can cause its own set of issues: for example, if you have a staggered group of fights on day 1 lasting through the afternoon, the party is now out of action for the morning day 2 and must rest until evening day 2 to regain spells.
That's not how the rules work, though. The spells are "per day," not "per 24 hour period."
The important rule is:
If a wizard has cast spells recently, the drain on his resources reduces his capacity to prepare new spells. When he prepares spells for the coming day, all the spells he has cast within the last 8 hours count against his daily limit.
So, at 8 am, Gimpy the Wizard wanders into the Bog of Eternal Stench with his friends, and spends the next several hours fighting shuggoths. By 3pm, he's totally out of spells. The party can opt to go home, or they can continue to slog on, knowing that Gimpy can't really do much except use cantrips and a crossbow, but that's their decision.
Anyway, at 10pm, the party calls a halt, and Gimply sleeps from 10pm to 6am. At 6am, he wakes, refreshed, and can recover his full allotment of spells.
The problem comes, not if they fight in the afternoon, but if they fight in the evening. If Gimpy cast any spells between 10pm and 6am, those spell slots would not be available. So if you want to mess up your spellcasters, make sure to arrange a 2am wakeup call.
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Being too strict with the 24 hours thing can cause its own set of issues:That's not how the rules work, though. The spells are "per day," not "per 24 hour period."
+1 the whole post was well said.
Following up to Blakmane, one shouldn't be too strict like you suggest. The easy fix for a GM to curb a player from trying to exact more than allowed benefit would be to set a time of day that all /day abilities refresh. For reference, this was the idea suggested by the 3.5 Sage Advice when they did the batch of answers just before 4e.