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So every now and then I get the hankering to make a martial type character (any Full BAB class) as a melee character. But every time I get hung up with the -2 STR.
Now for Attack, that is balanced by the +1 size bonus To-Hit, but damage is going to be 2 points lower (one point for the STR and one point average for the smaller weapon)
How do others (if there are any) help make up for the slightly lower damage output?
I usually find alternate ways to push past it.
Mutagens, Rage, Big Game Hunter Titan Mauler class ability combined with Big Game Hunter feat, Risky Striker halfling feat, Power Attack combined with Reckless Abandon rage power.
The -2 STR only makes it more challenging. It doesn't cripple you. I built a Titan Mauler Barbarian / Viking Fighter Halfling that made my DM go bug eyed when it could keep up with his custom Bugbears that swung large sized weapons because he gave them all powerful build (from 3.5e).
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Anything with Dex to damage.
Wayang, for no -2 STR
Honestly, I did a gnome barbarian with an adamantine nodachi and world serpent.
I rarely noticed the -2 damage, and by 7th level I penetrated everything but dr bashing and dr epic. Being able to ignore DR often meant I was doing more damage than everyone else.
F~%+ing
Goblin
That being said:
1. -2 STR only translates to -1 damage, because small size already provides +1 to attack. If you have enough bonuses to damage (for example, sneak attack, magus spell damage or cavalier challenge), it is easy to ignore. Mind you get another -1 to damage from smaller weapons.
2. -2 STR only matters in 20-point buy (or less) games. If you can roll for stats, I mean, sure, you'll likely take a hit, but a 16 and an 18 are not so different.
3. You don't need to maximize to be a good PC. Small has other bonuses that can be useful, like Underfoot, Taunt, Big Game Hunter, and so on.
4. Did I mention Monkey Goblins
play a kobold i dare you.
mouser
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but i barely know er
anythign that wants larger opponents is best used on a small sized character
like titan mauler. :P
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If you want a sample build, I'll toss in the main highlights of my halfling character. Some of his choices aren't optimized, some are.
Halfling
Titan Mauler (4) / Viking (16) (Game stalled @ lvl 9)
Neutral Good
Str 16 (18-2)
Dex 18 (16+2)
Con 14
Int 12
Wis 12
Cha 9 (7+2)
Underfoot and Fleet of Foot alternate racial traits taken
Barb 2 -> Figher 4 -> Barb 2 -> Fighter for remainder
1) Big Game Hunter [1], Big Game Hunter(Ex), Rage(Ex)
2) Spirit Totem, Lesser [R], Jotungrip(Ex)
3) ERP: Superstition [3], Two-Weapon Fighting [C]
4) Risky Striker [C], Fearsome(Ex):MoveAction
5) Power Attack [5], Shield Defense(Ex)+1
6) Vital Strike [C], Beserker(Ex)
7) Furious Focus [7], Massive Weapons(Ex)
8) Witch Hunter [R]
9) ERP: Spirit Totem [9]
10) Devastating Strike [C], Greater Rage(Ex)
11) Improved Vital Strike [11], Shield Defense(Ex)+2
12) Spell Sunder [C:R]
13) Undecided
14) Spirit Totem, Greater [C:R], Fearsome(Ex):SwiftAction
15) ERP: Eater of Magic [15]
16) Greater Vital Strike [C]
17) Undecided
18) Undecided
19) Undecided
20) Undecided
Against Large opponents, I was swinging 1d10+20 damage around level 4 and 2d6+32 damage around level 8 per swing. When limited to single attacks, we always chose to Vital Strike for 4d6+32. Our average to hit a Large or larger opponent was +23. I could afford the -4 to main hand and -2 to offhand when dual wielding at that point.
We used a small sized earthbreaker until level 6 (1d10 damage). Medium sized afterwards (2d6). Still kept the old one around for sentimental reasons (especially since it had the Raging enhancement on it, that kept it relevant).
Practically speaking, playing a halfling of another small race means more than s -2 to Str. Buying a 16 nets you a 14, whereas playing a race more suited to melee damage would probably net you 18. We're also looking at smaller weapons and a slower base speed.
Generally speaking, it is rare that a martial character gets more than 5-6 hits against a single opponent, either because they have killed them outright, or because they and their team together have done so. Given that, the only time the -2 points of damage would matter is times when that opponent would end up at 0-11 hit points with the reduced damage, and when if there wasn't the reduced damage there not being attacks that aren't used (if I take out my opponent with 2 of my 4 swings on a full attack, but can't hit anyone else, extra damage that I did on those two attacks was wasted.) This does happen of course, but it isn't really often, and pretty likely to be balanced out by increased AC.
Risky striker means you can get most kinds of full BAB classes completely up to par by level 3 (and a fighter can be running at level 1- one feat is spent catching up early on, but just think of it as a trade for +1 AC due to size, and the eventual damage increase at BAB +4)
Other races...are a bit harder to build around, yes. But halflings are good for a vanilla small race. So eh.
Who even cares? I can't see a -2/-3 average damage leading to you losing a fight you would have won. Maybe it'll give a monster or two an extra round of life. But considering the AC/to-hit bonuses, doesn't it just about draw even? Not to mention the handy Stealth bonus, which I've found can give a fighter or barbarian a teensy taste of some much-needed versatility.
DPR is a useful tool, but these little differences rarely matter much.
My dwarf magus took a level of barbarian just for the speed boost, and the rage and extra hit points were just gravy.
I can see the barbarian (and now bloodrager) being a great 1 level dip for other slow races.
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play a kobold i dare you.
I have, friend and I played siblings. Both of swarm fighters, mine was a two weapon kukri fighter with slashing grace while my friend played a unarmed (wolf style fighter) with an agile tail attachment, a demon claw, and a bite. All that using the second way of reading the Small but Deadly feat.
play a kobold i dare you.I have, friend and I played siblings. Both of swarm fighters, mine was a two weapon kukri fighter with slashing grace while my friend played a unarmed (wolf style fighter) with an agile tail attachment, a demon claw, and a bite. All that using the second way of reading the Small but Deadly feat.
So 'no unless I bend the rules to allow me to ignore str and not really sacrifice anything'?*
*Under the current rules, as far as I know them- no idea if this will change, but currently it is 'one handed weapons'
The only TWF weapons I know of that work effectively with slashing grace are sawtooth sabers (since they only take a -2 when you use two, rather than the usual -4 for using 2 one handed weapons)...and those don't do dex to attack (since again- one handed weapons only- no weapon finesse). So that still needs a swashbuckler dip on top of everything else (slashing grace feat, ewp)
Personally, I am more proud of a kobold archaeologist str build that I made that got to...average when he used his luck.
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play a kobold i dare you.I have, friend and I played siblings. Both of swarm fighters, mine was a two weapon kukri fighter with slashing grace while my friend played a unarmed (wolf style fighter) with an agile tail attachment, a demon claw, and a bite. All that using the second way of reading the Small but Deadly feat.So 'no unless I bend the rules to allow me to ignore str and not really sacrifice anything'?*
*Under the current rules, as far as I know them- no idea if this will change, but currently it is 'one handed weapons'
The only TWF weapons I know of that work effectively with slashing grace are sawtooth sabers (since they only take a -2 when you use two, rather than the usual -4 for using 2 one handed weapons)...and those don't do dex to attack (since again- one handed weapons only- no weapon finesse). So that still needs a swashbuckler dip on top of everything else (slashing grace feat, ewp)
Personally, I am more proud of a kobold archaeologist str build that I made that got to...average when he used his luck.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/small-but-deadly
doesn't exactly bend the rules, just had to ask the DM which way it was to be read.kukri TWF is probably one of the most staple ways of doing it due to not needed to be worried about the hit die it's self. 1d3 won't deal much damage but the +9 damage will, especially with a 15-20 crit range.
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everyone criticizing me for daring people to play a kobold apparently aren't aware that like 50% of my character are in some way related to kobolds.