Hi
i have some Questions about the Feat "second Chance" and "improved Second Chance" fromt he APG.
under 3 its not a pure rulequestion anymore, its also some thoughts about the feat. for me it was interesting to do that math, if you dont wanna think about it, just skip it :)
1.
Does using second Chance (the core feat) deny using an attack granted by haste?
Assuming im a level 6 fighter, having a haste item i have attacks with the following BABs: +6/+6(by haste)/+1
if i miss my first attack, it would allow me to attack at BAB+6 once again, losing any other attacks this round. so after missing the first attack, using second chance i would have 1 more attack at+6.
if i do not use second chance, i would have 2 more attacks at +6/+1.
So basicly the feat would make it worse, and haste is a pretty basic feature for "weapon attackers". It would be never worth to use the feat then.
2.
Assuming i´m a fighter with the two-handed-fighter archetype.
would backswing go on my new attempt for the granted by second chance?
it says:
"At 7th level, when a two-handed fighter makes a full-attack with a two-handed weapon, he adds double his Strength bonus on damage rolls for all attacks after the first. "
basicly the attack by second chance, is not my first attack, it just has the same BAB, so i would guess it stacks.
3.
relates to the first question:
if i have improved second chance, and have haste, would i be allowed to "re-try" my first attack, and still have my haste-attack at full BAB? and would the -5 apply to the haste-attack?
i did a little math and came to a the following point:
being level 11 i have BAB +11/+6/+1.
improved second chance basicly pushes your first attacks hit chance by misschance times hitchance. (if i miss, i get the second try to hit).
therefore the optimum benifit is 25% hit chance. (its when you hit at 11+. you would have 50% hit chance. and if you miss(50%) you get the 2nd try at 50% hit chance. so your total chance to hit is 75% wich is 25% increasement.)
However, it can only be worth, if the -5 for the iterative attacks would bring your 2nd attack above a required 20 to hit.
in our 11+ example for the first BAB, the 2nd attack would usually hit at 16, but now at "21" -> at 20. that makes you lose 20% chance, but you gained 25 at first attack -> worth.
if your first would hit at 10+ you would gain 24,75% hit chance (same math as above) but you would lose 25% for your 2nd attack, since its now hitting at 20 instead of 15.
so only if your enemy has an Armorclass making you hit your first attack between 11 and 19, second chance CAN be better.
CAN, because if you have haste its always worse. if you have haste and your best BAB hits at 15 or better, you lose 25% hitchance on your haste-attack, and the best chance you can gain is 25%. but if you are at this point, you would gain 25% for first, lose 25% on haste and lose 20% on first iterativ. so overall you will lose no matter what having haste. So basicly it can only be good if you either have no haste (12k, rly?) or your first attack ist massivly massivly stronger then the others. Both would probably not happen to ppl, being able to pick that feat.
after all these thoughts im just thinking i have to be missunderstanding the feat (im german, but german version sounds the same). You would need to pick INT13 and 3 feats at BAB11 to gain between 25% and 0,09% total hitchance for one attack of a full attack.(in a range of 8AC points, or 4 if you have haste)
if the armor is worse -> you lose, if its too hard -> it makes no difference.
i made a giant excel sheet to calculate the chances, and expected damage at different ACs, i hope i have no mistakes in my thoughts, if i have, please correct. im kinda struggling with that.
thx already
