Sorcerer compatible archetypes.


Rules Questions


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

is Tattooed Sorcerer and Crossblooded legal combinations?


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

You do have Eschew Materials, a 1st level bloodline power, a 7th level feat, and a 9th level bloodline power to trade out. It looks kosher to me.


Some say that because it combines the lists of the feats together, it changes all feats, though personally, I would see it as a swapping out option.

In my games, until I see otherwise, I end up saying no, just to avoid diappointing someone later if a clear ruling comes up.


Crossblooded isn't "legal" with any other archetype the way it works in the "rules"

Liberty's Edge

Ask Your GM if they will allow it, but the archetype combination rules are listed and Crossblooded will say if it isn't legal in that sense. But, otherwise, I see no reason it couldn't be either... might be fun depending on the actual bloodline you took even... and which crossblooded option it gets.

Shadow Lodge

According to this FAQ, the crossblooded archetype is considered to actually alter the bloodline, making it ineligible for combination with any archetype.

I would allow it in a home game however because as RJGrady indicated you still have the necessary abilities to trade out. It's not unbalancing because the added flexibility in powers and feats that Crossblooded gives you (at the cost of spells known and will save) makes the feat and power you give up with Tattooed Sorc more valuable.

FAQ wrote:

Sorcerer, Crossblooded and Wildblooded: Can I take both of these archetypes for the same character?

No, because the archetype rules say none of the alternate class features can replace or alter the same class feature from the class as another alternate class feature. Because the crossblooded and wildblooded sorcerer archetypes both alter the bloodline arcana and bloodline powers, they aren't compatible archetypes.


I believe somebody at Paizo wrote that IF you are going to house-rule allowing that combo (which is not RAW-legal),
then it would be in the spirit of things to not allow using Cross-Blooded's option to choose a lower level power in place of a higher level power, if that lower level power was replaced by Tattooed Archetype.


Inconsistent with the quinngong ruling tho


Entryhazard wrote:
Inconsistent with the quinngong ruling tho

I just read that and you are correct, perhaps that is just for monks? Or perhaps that is true for all classes and archetypes. Maybe a FAQ could be created for this. I doubt there will be enough people interested.


Quigong is written differently, each Quigong ability swap is basically it's own Archetype that you choose to take or not, if not, the ability is unmodified. There is nothing about the Quigong ruling specific to Monks per se, it is just based on the particular wording and dynamic of Quigoing... Similar modular-archetypes COULD be written for other classes, but they haven't been, Paizo isn't GENERALLY interesteed in pushing archetype-combining.

CrossBlooded forces you take the whole package (like most archetypes), the class abilities are modified to include a choice (between bloodlines, between levels of abilities when taking a lower ability you previously passed on), and making that choice (regardless what you choose is using the modified class ability, it is NOT a decision about whether or not to modify the class ability like Quigong, the class ability IS modified. The issue isn't what ends up on your character sheet at the end, but how class abilities function... same as if an Archetype replaced one level of Sorceror Bonus Feat with a Fighter Bonus Feat and you chose a Feat that was also on Sorceror Bonus List: the ability is still modified, and conflicts with any archetype that would modify/replace the same ability.

Likewise, one can see that Paizo's advice for how to house-rule it "responsibily" if you DO house-rule allowing the combo, is creating a special corner-case rule out of thin air: That you CAN'T choose to select a lower-level power with higher level "slot" - which normally is to allow selecting both bloodlines' powers of a certain level - if an other archetype replaced/modified the lower-level "slot".... That ISN'T directly derivable from standard rules, so you can see exactly how breaking the rules on archetype combination/exclusivity of class ability modification can create problems, EVEN IN a case like this that seems like it isn't problematic at first glance.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

That's a weird ruling on Wildblooded, since it doesn't actually alter the class features at all, it just alters the selection of those features.

Shadow Lodge

There is one major difference between Qinggong and Crossblooded.

Qinggong applies no penalty in exchange for its flexibility, so it makes sense that this flexibility should be limited. However, Crossblooded applies a significant penalty - you lose one spell known and take a -2 penalty on will saves. Therefore I would argue that it should retain that flexibility if combined with another archetype.

Additionally, there's a small difference between an archetype replacing a specific ability eg wholeness of body and replacing the bloodline power gained at 9th level. To replace wholeness of body you have to have wholeness of body. To replace a power gained at 9th level... you have to gain a power at 9th level.

At most, the limitation should be that you can only take one 9th level power, and you'd have to take it at 15th level, because at 9th level you would have to select a "9th level" power to trade away, but at 15th level you could take the other 9th level power as normally allowed by Crossblooded. By analogy, a Qinggong monk that trades away wholeness of body using another archetype can still select the Whirlwind Attack Ki Power at level 10, despite the fact that Whirlwind Attack, like Wholeness of Body, is considered an 8th level ki power.

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