Interaction of forced rerolls and rolling multiple dice

Rules Questions

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

So, here's a couple of hypothetical situations. A witch uses misfortune to force a battle oracle with war sight to reroll initiative.

The relevant text:

"Anytime the creature makes an ability check, attack roll, saving throw, or skill check, it must roll twice and take the worse result."

"Whenever you roll for initiative, you can roll twice and take either result."

What happens? Does the witch force me to reroll what I would normally roll, meaning the 2d20 I normally use? This interpretation seems to result in me rolling 2 sets of 2d20 and taking the worse result of whichever two dice I choose using war sight. Or possibly picking either one of the worse two dice, depending on what order they apply in.

Does one negate the other, since they both tell me to roll dice and choose a specific one? If so, which one wins? This doesn't seem like a specific/general issue, since they're both specific about what I do with my roll.

Interpretation 1A: I roll 2 sets of 2d20 and get 11, 9 and 3, 14. With war sight, I pick 11 and 14. Then I must pick 11, since it's worse than 14.

Interpretation 1B: I roll the same, but misfortune applies first and now I must pick between 3 and 9.

Interpretation 2A: War sight negates misfortune. I roll 2d20 and pick which I like as normal.

Interpretation 2B: Misfortune negates war sight. I roll 2d20 and pick the worse one as specified by the hex.

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

Another, similar issue in a separate post because the devs have indicated they prefer FAQs to be that way:

A dual-cursed oracle uses the misfortune revelation on a war-sighted battle oracle.

"You can force a creature within 30 feet to reroll any one d20 roll that it has just made before the results of the roll are revealed. The creature must take the result of the reroll, even if it’s worse than the original roll."

It seems fairly clear that I now roll 3d20, but which do I choose? Must I select the third die which this version of misfortune forced me to roll? Am I still free to pick the result of the die I didn't reroll?

Interpretation 1: I roll 11, 3, and reroll either die for a 10. I must select the 10.

Interpretation 2: I roll the same, and can either choose 11 or 10, assuming I was forced to reroll the 3.

Interpretation 3: I roll the same and can pick any of them as I wish.

You roll 2d20, 2 times.

Each pair you must take the worst result due to the witch hex.

Of the low result from each pair you may select whichever you prefer.

Ex: 1d20 ⇒ 91d20 ⇒ 11 (you must take 9)


1d20 ⇒ 71d20 ⇒ 7 (you must take 7)


You can chose 7 or 9

I agree that seems to be a reasonable way to rule their interaction, but I don't currently have anything more than gut feeling to base that on. Is there any specific source you have for this?

Ipslore the Red wrote:
I agree that seems to be the most reasonable way to rule their interaction, but I don't currently have anything more than gut feeling to base that on. Is there any specific source you have for this?

Just that I apply penalties before I apply bonuses. I don't think that is codified anywhere but it makes sense to me to act that way.

So you apply the hex first, then the war sight.

For your first example, I would go with your 1A:

1) you roll twice for initiative, choosing the higher roll;
2) the witch's misfortune makes you re-roll your initiative;
3) when you do that, you roll twice ('whenever you roll for initiative, etc) and again take the higher roll.
4) the misfortune applies to the results - the lower of the original choice and the new set.

The second example seems to me to be:
1) you roll a d20 for initiative;
2) misfortune means you have to re-roll that, taking the new roll;
3) your war-sightedness means you roll initiative again;
4) then you choose whichever of the 2 remaining rolls you prefer.

Mind you, it is unlikely to ever actually happen, since the misfortune needed to be applied before initiative is rolled. In a surprise round?

edited: because I misread the misfortune text in the 2nd example.

Easiest way is just to have the two effects cancel each other out and roll one check.

I agree with thorin001.

The war sight allows you to choose any of the two rolls, which could be the best of two rolls most of the time, while the hex forces you to choose the worst of two rolls. Simplest way is to state they cancel each other out, and you roll once.

Using this ruling when the misfortune happens apply it normally.

I also think this ruling would keep the pace of the game.

It seems that you would roll 2 sets of 2d20. You pick whichever roll out of each set you want and then take the worst of the results chosen. Your ability allows you to choose which of 2 rolls you use, not which of 4. Out of each set you are allowed to choose a single roll. You can’t pick 11 and 14 since they are from different sets. Likewise the witches hex is not choose the worst out of 4, but the worst out of 2.

In your example you would probably choose 9 out of the first set, and 14 out of the second set. Then misfortune would kick in and you would be forced to take 9. This is the only way that both abilities will work as written.

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