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I've been playing a lot of Total War: Attila lately, and I was wondering how best to play a Pathfinder version of these guys, the elite pikemen of the Ostrogoths.
Ostensibly, the longspear would be my go-to weapon for such a character, and a buckler would be included...but anytime I jab something with that spear, the buckler would stop providing it's AC bonus, essentially rendering it useless.
So the question is essentially, how do I play such a character effectively?
My gut reaction when first coming up with this concept was to either use the Phalanx Soldier or Thunderstriker archetypes, but both present problems. Phalanx Soldier seems to carry the expectation that you'll be using a spear or polearm with one hand and a larger shield, similar to the hoplites the archetype is based on. On the other hand, Thunderstriker is built more with bucklers in mind, but it's more oriented towards a "sword and board" style of fighting rather than the buckler serving a purely defensive purpose, and as such a reach weapon like a longspear renders most of the features it provides useless. In addition, Thunderstriker requires one to be an almost exclusively single-class Fighter, which, whether one wishes to optimize or simply take a prestige class (which I was interested in doing, specifically the Stalwart Defender).
As a result, I find myself at a bit of a loss. It seems like there's no way to build such a character without either forgoing some of your class features, forgoing the opportunity to branch out and/or optimize, or just abandoning the buckler altogether. Is there anyway I can realize this character effectively, or am I pretty much screwed no matter which avenue I take?
It feels like 1-7 Thunderstriker is your best mate, the benefit being you threaten at reach and at adjacent with your Buckler/Longspear combo, plus it leaves you at the perfect level to drop into Stalwart Defender.
Sure it can be made up with Armour Spikes naturally, but this way you have some added defense when your not attacking.
Reflavor the bill:
Price 11 gp
Type martial
The blade of this polearm is a curved or hooked chopping blade with a spiked projection on the back of the blade. The spike is commonly used to block and parry. When fighting defensively or with full defense, this weapon gives you a +1 shield bonus to AC. A mounted opponent hit by a bill takes a –1 penalty on his Ride check to stay mounted.
Alternately, ask your GM if you can take a custom feat that allows someone to gain the shield bonus from a buckler when fighting defensively with a polearm.
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I suppose a light shield works just as well in this context. It's not like the records explicitly say "bucklers" in reference to those shields.
And honestly Antagonize was a planned part of the character regardless of the form he takes.
So the idea is instead of proper "sword-and-board" which can't happen with reach weapons, you attack with spear OR shield depending on how close the enemy is?
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You could even use a heavy shield or a Klar.
No offense meant, but do these guys look like they're carrying heavy shields? The size was why I was initially looking at bucklers.
That's pretty much the idea. You could use Halberd and Shield Bash, though in that case I'm pretty sure you'd have to use a Light Shield. You could Great Cleave with a Reach Pole Arm and a Shield, bashing opponents within 5', skewering the ones 10' out.
Shield Slamming can yield a wicked loop of attacks of opportunity.
Sounds effective. I'm more interested in longspear, though, to more accurately resemble the pikemen in the picture.
Cool, we're on the same page.
For the most part. Thanks! :)
or you could be an alchemist with vestigial arm discovery.
Erm...thanks but no thanks. It doesn't really gel with the concept I have in mind. <.<
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Specifically a little shield strapped to the arm.
And use the Antagonize feat, both because it's apparently a good feat for this kind of character and it fits with his planned penchant for The Reason You Suck Speeches.
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Why not multiclass?
Just take 3 levels in Thunderstriker, and then move on.
Ignore flavor, and "expectations" presented for the archetype, and make your own.
Hard-boiled flavor, is not supported by the rules.
You could go Order of the Cockatrice Cavalier afterwards, and nab Hurtful.
As long as the shield is present, the spear is present, and you flavor it right, the mechanics are much more fluid into fitting with your theme.
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That was my first instinct, but I'm not sure how effective it'd be, especially given the buckler stops working when you attack. That's always my concern with these things. I see a picture or something I think is cool and say "I wanna play that!" but I worry that by shaping myself to fit that image I'll become useless in combat.
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Improved Buckler defense used to be a feat in 3.5, rather low level, but now yeah, its a feature of thunderstriker...at level 19. Not frankly quite worth level 19 and they do share the same name, Improved Buckler defense. It shouldn't be too difficult to convince your DM to allow it.
But well, beside that, just expensive options (Animated shield) or I suppose if you really want the mechanical advantage of it at low level invest in the UMD skill, buy a wand of Shield and cast it on yourself. For a +4 shield bonus for 10 rounds. Or to make up for losing one AC from the buckler, you could always just take the feat dodge and fluff it however you want on the battlefield.
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Then let the Buckler be there for enchantment and flavor purposes.
If you focus less on having the Buckler have a major mechanical role, then you can focus on a powerful build, that works with the flavor concept.
The look is maintained, and feel still within the concept.
And what would that more powerful build be? I'm honestly not sure what I'm doing...
Historically, I don't know of these "Ostragoth Pikemen".
While Ostragoths did use pikes, sometimes, they used them like any other army used pikemen: with some guys being pikemen (no shields) and other guys being shield bearers (no pikes).
I am not aware of any historical army that equipped soldiers with long 2H pikes and somehow glued sizable shields to their shoulders. The video game picture definitely shows light round shields (targets) affixed to the shoulder (not forearms as a buckler would be). It's almost as if the shield is PART of the armor - certainly someone wearing that shoulder-shield is NOT moving it around and blocking attacks like a guy using a normal shield would do. Maybe they used it like Floyd Mayweather uses his "shoulder roll" to block punches...
In any case, for game terms, why make this about class or archetype at all? Why not just do what the video game picture suggests: make a new kind of armor. Mail, like any other chainmail armor, but with a shield permanently attached where a pauldron would go. Make it not quite permanent, say, some kind of mounting device, then a character could actually remove and replace the shield with a better one, or just enchant the shield he has.
Call it a "Pikeman's Cuirasse" which should fit the Ostragoth theme well enough.
There should be some balancing factor to this armor. After all, the armor basically lets its wearer have two hands free AND use a shield too. I would decrease the max DEX by 1 and raise the armor check penalty by 1. I would probably also restrict weapon use to thrusting weapons (spears, etc.), because that shield on the shoulder would be very awkward for swinging swords and axes.
I might even go so far as to suggest making it an exotic armor and treating that like exotic weapons: you need a special feat to use this armor (in which case I probably would NOT restrict the weapon use).
None of which is RAW, but then, this is in the Advice board so there you have it, my advice.