This is probably as old as... well .... what ever book came out with Standard actions. People mention standard actions then go on to the other actions.
I have not seen a definition (no, wait, I have not FOUND) for standard action.
This came up while playing my bard. I was casting Invisibility and Vanish for my large group. I was told that by the time I got done casting the fifth Vanish spell, the first one would be over with. (Character level 6, max spell length 5 rounds)
The casting time for Vanish is a Standard action not 1 round. I might be a little slow on the 'casty' stuff.
I would think a Standard action would be shorter.
All of the casting was done out of combat.
We expedited things but I still felt I needed this answered.
I tried doing a search hear and on google but found nothing.
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There is no answer to your question, which is why you've been unable to find one.
But the timeframe of a standard action is irrelevant in Pathfinder, which operates in rounds.
Since you can only perform one standard action per round, and your spell last a maximum of 5 rounds, you indeed would be unable to Vanish a group of more than 5 PCs before the first one expired.
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If you look near the top of the Common Terms section of the Getting Started chapter, you will see that the definition of an "action" is basically a measurable segmentation of a round. They are not measured by time, but rather by how many (of each type) may be performed within one round.
Standard Actions are defined in the Combat section.
Once you understand those concepts, it's time to move on to Magic. The Magic chapter explains Casting Time and Duration, which are two aspects of spells which you seem to be getting confused about. In essence, you cast the Vanish spell in one standard action of one round, and it takes effect during that same round. That consumes the first round of the spell's duration.
Other spells have different casting times and different units of measure for their duration. That's all explained in the Magic section, as well.
4 seconds (not official)
I think that as far as casting is concerned, the only unit shorter than 'standard action' (letting you move in a round) is 'swift' (almost immediate). There's no clock as such, but you can't use 'it's only a standard action' to evade 'only one standard-action spell every six seconds'.
I would think a Standard action would be shorter.
Look in the spell casting section for your answer where it says you cannot cast more than one spell in a combat round no matter the casting time unless the second spell is quickened.
So even at a 'standard action' without quicken you will cast one spell every combat round of 6 seconds. Even out of combat.
A Round is 6 seconds.
You are allowed 2 Movement Actions, a Movement Action and a Standard Action, or a Full Round Action, along with 1 Swift/Immediate Action per Round, and 1 5ft Step.
If you REALLY want to break it down, here goes:
A Move Action is 2.25 Seconds
A Standard Action is 3.25 Seconds
A Swift Action/Immediate Action is .25 Seconds and can only be performed once/Round
A 5-Foot Step is .25 Seconds and can only be performed once/Round
A Full-Round Action takes 5.5 Seconds
A Free Action takes 0 Seconds because it can be performed over other Actions.
There ya go - that way, you cannot take 3 Move Actions in a Round, you cannot take 2 Standard Actions in a Round, and you can still use 1 Swift Action and 1 5-Foot Step even when making a Full Round Action or taking a Move Action & Standard Action together.
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There ya go - that way, you cannot take 3 Move Actions in a Round, you cannot take 2 Standard Actions in a Round, and you can still use 1 Swift Action and 1 5-Foot Step even when making a Full Round Action or taking a Move Action & Standard Action together.This solution would only be valid in the homebrew section. This is not a legit answer to the OPs question.
No, it isn't, and I'm not actually saying anyone should be thinking of it this way.
There is no answer, because that's not how the game works - Rounds are the standard unit of temporal measurement in Pathfinder, and it's broken up by Actions which have a specific way in which they can be combined that isn't elaborated upon beyond saying "you can do W or X or Y or Z, plus L or M, plus Q, plus unlimited J"
However, if he HAS to apply some numbers in his head in order to understand it as ticks of the clock, at least this is a good & simple way to do so that doesn't violate the rules as to what combinations of Actions can be made.
But, realistically, just learning the "2 Moves or 1 Move + 1 Standard or 1 Full, + 1 Swift/Immediate, +1 5ft Step, + infinite Free" setup is the best course of action, since obviously you can have multiple things going on at once.
EDIT: There's also flaws behind the logic of the numbers. Ex. Swift actions works just like free actions and should therefore also occupy 0 seconds. The anekdote that you can only preform swift and immediate actions once per round invalidates the arbitrary numbers you've given. No reson to state that a standard action takes 3.25 seconds to then further explain that that's the reson as to why you can't take several standard actions within the period of 6 seconds. The rules already states this as a fact. If a standard action took 3.25 seconds you would be able to cast four spells in three turns and still have 5 seconds left on your third round to take a double move action, which isn't allowed by the rules.
Bottomline: Your numbers aren't needed, it's already coverd by the rules. And you shouldn't give your own flawed system as an answer to a RAW question.
Wow, butthurt much? It's already been stated that there is no way to answer his question by several people.
Jesus, dude - calm the f~@& down; I merely presented a way in which a 6-second round can be broken down into hard numbers that still work to not allow more actions in a given round than is already allowed; I never intended for someone to gank up on it and think that you could "stockpile" seconds, because they reset once the Round comes back to you, like how you can't hold onto excess Mana between Turns, Steps, or Phases in MTG.
I'm not saying that's how it is, or how you should really think of it, but it IS a way to picture it, since some people need hard values because they have trouble picture abstract concepts.
F$!#ing 'aye.
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It is the Rules forum. Only rules-correct answers should be given.
A Round is 6 seconds.
You are allowed 2 Movement Actions, a Movement Action and a Standard Action, or a Full Round Action, along with 1 Swift/Immediate Action per Round, and 1 5ft Step.
If you REALLY want to break it down, here goes:
A Move Action is 2.25 Seconds
A Standard Action is 3.25 Seconds
A Swift Action/Immediate Action is .25 Seconds and can only be performed once/Round
A 5-Foot Step is .25 Seconds and can only be performed once/Round
A Full-Round Action takes 5.5 Seconds
A Free Action takes 0 Seconds because it can be performed over other Actions.
There ya go - that way, you cannot take 3 Move Actions in a Round, you cannot take 2 Standard Actions in a Round, and you can still use 1 Swift Action and 1 5-Foot Step even when making a Full Round Action or taking a Move Action & Standard Action together.
This makes sense from a purely mathematical point of view, but as Rub-Eta points out, there are rules that would categorize subjects like Swift and Immediate Actions as effects that would fall under the same duration as Free Actions; there are also rules that have different interpretations regarding Full Round Actions, specifically Meta-Magic Spells (Full-Round Action) V.S. Summon Spells (1-Round Cast Time), in that one is completed within the round, and the other doesn't complete until the following round. The factor that there are differing time executions between the two subjects (that are technically supposed to equate to the same thing) provides more than enough evidence as to differing durations being a result of not properly quantifying how long each action actually takes.
Additionally, PF is abstract of realism. Realistically speaking, not everyone can accomplish the same tasks in the same exact amount of time. In this case, not every single character finishes spellcasting such as a basic Vanish spell in the 3.25 seconds that you claim always happens, no matter the circumstance. It also doesn't take into consideration the implications of conditions that limit your ability to complete actions. Staggered is a prime example of a condition that limits your ability to perform actions (which also means you're technically cutting down on the time you have within the round). From that token, this realism also takes into account the time estimation for each action that you believe applies, which PF is abstract from, as provided with conditions like Nauseated. The only reason a time stamp is listed for Rounds total is for spell effects whose duration is Minutes/Hours per level, whose duration if Rounds were not given a timestamp, would be unclear as to how long they would actually last.
The breakdown invented by chbgraphicarts is good if it leads you to understanding the rules. All that really matters in the case you presented is that 1 round represents 6 seconds, and that once per round on your turn you can use 1 standard action. Calling a standard action 6 or 3 or 2.5 seconds makes no difference because it does not change how often you can cast a spell.
The breakdown invented by chbgraphicarts is good if it leads you to understanding the rules. All that really matters in the case you presented is that 1 round represents 6 seconds, and that once per round on your turn you can use 1 standard action. Calling a standard action 6 or 3 or 2.5 seconds makes no difference because it does not change how often you can cast a spell.
I disagree. I think this approach confuses more than it helps. Just as a simple example, why can't I do three standard actions over two rounds? If a standard action takes four seconds or less, and a round is six seconds, I should be able to forgo moving or doing anything else and take three standard actions in two rounds.
The simplest answer, of course, is "because the rules forbid it."
The more correct answer is that both rounds and actions are abstractions, and that a certain amount of walking and chewing gum at the same time is assumed. Realistically, casting a spell probably requires a variable bit of time ("where did I put that bat guano?" as I dig through the pouch) but can also be done at the same time that I move, but not at the same time as a run (ever try to dig through a pouch while running? Much harder to do....)
Thanks for all the responses. Though I got the answer from Nefreet. I wish there was a way to close a thread by the OP (it would prevent thread necro up to 5 years later ;P )
The breakdown invented by chbgraphicarts is good if it leads you to understanding the rules. All that really matters in the case you presented is that 1 round represents 6 seconds, and that once per round on your turn you can use 1 standard action. Calling a standard action 6 or 3 or 2.5 seconds makes no difference because it does not change how often you can cast a spell.I disagree. I think this approach confuses more than it helps. Just as a simple example, why can't I do three standard actions over two rounds? If a standard action takes four seconds or less, and a round is six seconds, I should be able to forgo moving or doing anything else and take three standard actions in two rounds.
Oh well. Thats why I put the "if" in there.
Considering that a Minute of Combat is ruled (thought not known if this is official) to be 11 rounds and there are 60 seconds in a minute, it means that each round is about 5.5 seconds.
Compared to Shadowrun's silly initiative in which you can do like 5+ Standard actions in 6 seconds, Pathfinder's is reasonable.
Each round represents 6 seconds in the game world; there are 10 rounds in a minute of combat. A round normally allows each character involved in a combat situation to act.
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I remember someone proposed a while back a homebrew system that involved dividing your full-attack and making it "initiative-based" such that your iterative attacks happen on later initiative counts.
That's actually how 2nd Edition AD&D worked.
[nostalgia="Back in my day..."]
The round started at Initiative 1, and went up from there.
Instead of the feat "Improved Initiative", which gives +4, you had the proficiency "Quickness", which gave -2. You rolled a d10 rather than a d20.
And different weapons had different "speeds", so that multiple strikes with a dagger might actually all get to go before your Greatsword could even swing once.
There was much less ability to attack multiple times in that system, so rounds didn't drag on.
The advent of the d20 rules system required that Initiative be evaluated and changed due to 1) lower rolls no longer being desired, and 2) the epic number of attacks that were now possible.
[/nostalgia]
I remember someone proposed a while back a homebrew system that involved dividing your full-attack and making it "initiative-based" such that your iterative attacks happen on later initiative counts.That's actually how 2nd Edition AD&D worked.
[nostalgia="Back in my day..."]
The round started at Initiative 1, and went up from there.
Instead of the feat "Improved Initiative", which gives +4, you had the proficiency "Quickness", which gave -2. You rolled a d10 rather than a d20.
And different weapons had different "speeds", so that multiple strikes with a dagger might actually all get to go before your Greatsword could even swing once.
There was much less ability to attack multiple times in that system, so rounds didn't drag on.
The advent of the d20 rules system required that Initiative be evaluated and changed due to 1) lower rolls no longer being desired, and 2) the epic number of attacks that were now possible.
[/nostalgia]
I remember that; it also had casting time, similar to weapon speed factors. Not quite sure how it defined those though. And wasn't initiative in that system always rolled each round? If so, ugh.
It's abstract but games do have a limit on how detailed they can get.
it also had casting time, similar to weapon speed factors. Not quite sure how it defined those though. And wasn't initiative in that system always rolled each round?
[nostalgia="Back in my day..."]Yeah initiative was rolled each round and casting times were added to your initiative value. Your roll showed when the spell started and it was finally cast after the casting time in initiative 'pulses'.
High level spells were murder to get off given they were usually a +7-9 casting time and if you were hit during the casting 'pulses' you were interrupted, took damage and lost the spell. Period. No concentration checks or Quicken metamagic back then.
Folks with really high speed weapons (which had lower numbers added to initiative) would easily roll lower and with the ability to move and get all your attacks it was rough. Course back then your attacks maxed at 2 per round for 'warrior classes' or three if you were a higher level 'warrior class' and used two weapon fighting.
Two weapon fighting was the only way a rogue could even get more than one attack, one with his main hand and one with the second weapon. And Rogues and 'warrior classes' were the only ones who could two weapon fight at all.[/nostalgia]