Just checking to see if this is still going?
Thank you for your interest, JadedDemiGod! It is still ongoing, although some freelance work has set my processes aside temporarily. I hope to conclude my freelance work in all haste and get back to this product.
Occult Adventures is out now. Here are some thoughts from me about how those classes could be integrated into Athas.
Kineticist: These guys sound like they'd hang around with Clerics as the chosen of the Elementals.
Medium: One thing that might be interesting about Athasian Mediums is that they don't necessarily know anything about the Spirits that they're channeling. That champion they're channeling might have lived in the Green Age, referencing things that the Medium doesn't understand. Also, Archmage spirits would likely be looked at with suspicion, along with the Mediums who channel them.
Mesmerist: Gee? Mind control via psychic powers on Athas? That certainly doesn't fit in to this setting. (This is a joke. Mesmerists totally make sense in Dark Sun.)
Occultist: There probably aren't too many Occultists on Athas, since so much history has been lost. But then again, trying to uncover what happened before the rise of the Sorcerer Kings could be a hook for such a character.
Psychic: Would probably fill a similar role to Psionicists as masters of psychic power.
Spiritualist: There are enough weird undead things on Athas that I think phantoms aren't too much of a stretch to add. It also makes sense that some souls would try to escape the Athasian afterlife.
I didn't see much of a need to alter any of the classes in Occult Adventures as presented. They fit in with the setting pretty well, actually.
Very interested to see the write up on the occult classes, I loved the other classes.
You may end up disappointed in the lack of need for alteration or explanation.
Thank you for your questions, all! I promise to check back in more often!
I am a bit disappointed yeah, cause I like your fancy pdfs.
About the kineticist though, I don't think it's a great idea to keep that class unmodified. I think the burn mechanic needs to be changed. Accepting some non-lethal damage in the deserts of Athas is inviting death, since you already have to deal with the heat. Maybe the kineticist should use a ki pool instead?
PTW. I have fond memories of playing in a Dark Sun campaign back in the day. If life slows down enough for me to catch my breath, I may start a PBP campaign with my (now remote) gaming group.
This project is not dead, just on a shelf for a bit.
Good to hear!
I've also been popping in over here from time to time, to check on any progress.
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Here is an "issue" that has come up recently in my homebrew Dark Sun weekly Pathfinder game -
In the original 2e boxed set it states that thri-kreen can vertically jump 20'. In Pathfinder terms, that is a +80 acrobatics check...
I've been having a tough time coming to grips with this and so in favor of erring on the side of original content, I've been essentially allowing my thri-kreen player to make almost any jump she wants to, within the reasonable boundaries of not going far beyond a 20' vertical jump.
Without handwaving this rule, how can I quantify in fair Pathfinder terms what sort of racial bonus thri-kreen should have without straight up saying "you have +80 to acrobatics checks when attempting a vertical jump" ?
So far I've simply been handwaving it because it doesn't really feel that game-breaking. The player has used it to make some neat jumps to a scouting position, or to reach difficult areas of a battlefield, but isn't that working as intended? Shouldn't the thri-kreen have an excellent jump?
Most 3.x/PF dark sun conversions I've read don't give the player anywhere near that level of a bonus to jump/acrobatics checks, which makes me wonder what the logic would be in nerfing the original content so harshly.
Perhaps make it so vertical checks count as 1/foot or 2/foot, rather than 4/foot.
So if they have a +7 to their check, and roll a 17, they jump 24 feet up (or 12 feet, which is still a ton and allows for growth.) But they don't get some +80 to the roll. Their horizontal jumps will still come out fairly normal.
The Pathfinder Darksun page has a leaping ability that is pretty easy to use. Makes them strong, not grasshoppers.
The flavor of 2nd Edition was they jump really well, and really high. The STAT for 2nd Edition was they jump 20 ft. vertically. And 2nd Edition stats...well..they suck at just about everything. Great flavor, terrible, terrible execution. :)
My two coppers.
I've also been popping in over here from time to time, to check on any progress.
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Here is an "issue" that has come up recently in my homebrew Dark Sun weekly Pathfinder game -
In the original 2e boxed set it states that thri-kreen can vertically jump 20'. In Pathfinder terms, that is a +80 acrobatics check...
I've been having a tough time coming to grips with this and so in favor of erring on the side of original content, I've been essentially allowing my thri-kreen player to make almost any jump she wants to, within the reasonable boundaries of not going far beyond a 20' vertical jump.Without handwaving this rule, how can I quantify in fair Pathfinder terms what sort of racial bonus thri-kreen should have without straight up saying "you have +80 to acrobatics checks when attempting a vertical jump" ?
So far I've simply been handwaving it because it doesn't really feel that game-breaking. The player has used it to make some neat jumps to a scouting position, or to reach difficult areas of a battlefield, but isn't that working as intended? Shouldn't the thri-kreen have an excellent jump?
Most 3.x/PF dark sun conversions I've read don't give the player anywhere near that level of a bonus to jump/acrobatics checks, which makes me wonder what the logic would be in nerfing the original content so harshly.
Jumping around on the battlefield makes for some pretty interesting movement, and the way that Pathfinder has jumps set, if you can jump vertically by 20', you can jump horizontally by 40'. That's a pretty big movement.
One way to go about this would be to give the Thri-Kreen the ability to jump as far vertically as they can horizontally. That would make it only a DC 40 Acrobatics check to jump 20' vertically (without space to get a running start). It's a huge DC, but not insurmountable. Combine that with an ability that grants the Thri-Kreen the consideration of a running start on any jump (2 RP), and that DC drops to 20. The only consideration is what you're willing to give up in order to get this jump; Thri-Kreen are a pretty high RP race as-is. As an estimate, I'd guess that an ability that doubles the vertical jump is probably 3-4 RP.
Occult Adventures is out now. Here are some thoughts from me about how those classes could be integrated into Athas.
Kineticist: These guys sound like they'd hang around with Clerics as the chosen of the Elementals.
Medium: One thing that might be interesting about Athasian Mediums is that they don't necessarily know anything about the Spirits that they're channeling. That champion they're channeling might have lived in the Green Age, referencing things that the Medium doesn't understand. Also, Archmage spirits would likely be looked at with suspicion, along with the Mediums who channel them.
Mesmerist: Gee? Mind control via psychic powers on Athas? That certainly doesn't fit in to this setting. (This is a joke. Mesmerists totally make sense in Dark Sun.)
Occultist: There probably aren't too many Occultists on Athas, since so much history has been lost. But then again, trying to uncover what happened before the rise of the Sorcerer Kings could be a hook for such a character.
Psychic: Would probably fill a similar role to Psionicists as masters of psychic power.
Spiritualist: There are enough weird undead things on Athas that I think phantoms aren't too much of a stretch to add. It also makes sense that some souls would try to escape the Athasian afterlife.
Generally speaking, there is little to no need to make adaptations to these classes. They fit pretty well. The only hitch is guaranteeing that they don't have to get into the preserver vs. defiler struggle.
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Jumping back into this, I have to finish out:
- Athasian Feats. I'm looking for suggestions from anyone who's willing to offer them.
- Athasian Bestiary. I'll need a critical-eye and a volunteer or two to finish these. This part is always slow going.
- Bestiary Pictures. This is also a time-consuming activity. Assistance is appreciated.
Bestiary Listing:
- Baazrag (Complete)
- Baazrag, Boneclaw (Complete)
- Belgoi (Complete)
- Braxat (Complete)
- Cilops (Complete)
- Critic Lizard (Complete)
- Crodlu (Complete)
- Dragon of Tyr (Complete)
- Dune Reaper (Complete)
- Erdlu (Complete)
- Gaj (Complete)
- Giant (Humanoid, Beast-Head & Umbral) (Complete)
- Gith
- Inix
- Jankx
- Jhakar
- Jozhal
- Kank
- Kes'trekel
- Lirr
- Mekillot
- Mulworm
- Pterrax
- Rasclinn
- Razorwing
- Sand Howler
- Spinewyrm
- Yallix
- Z'tal
If you need help with converting monsters, i have a fair eye for it. I am working on my own campaign that i want to publish, so i have a fair amount of experience.
I won't refuse the assistance. :)
Anything in particular you need?
Anything that hasn't been bolded yet. I'm currently going back and working on the Avangion.
Having difficulties with the Avangion. Anyone have any suggestions for a capstone ability?
@Bodhizen - is there current link to a wiki or PDFs?
Any of the links in this thread should lead to pdfs.
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Jumping back into this, I have to finish out:
- Athasian Feats. I'm looking for suggestions from anyone who's willing to offer them.
- Athasian Bestiary. I'll need a critical-eye and a volunteer or two to finish these. This part is always slow going.
- Bestiary Pictures. This is also a time-consuming activity. Assistance is appreciated.
Bestiary Listing:
- Avangion ADDED (Complete - this took a long time.)
- Baazrag (Complete)
- Baazrag, Boneclaw (Complete)
- Belgoi (Complete)
- Braxat (Complete)
- Cilops (Complete)
- Critic Lizard (Complete)
- Crodlu (Complete)
- Dragon of Tyr (Complete)
- Sample Dragon King ADDED (Complete - this took a long time as well.)
- Dune Reaper (Complete)
- Erdlu (Complete)
- Gaj (Complete)
- Giant (Humanoid, Beast-Head & Umbral) (Complete)
- Gith (Complete)
- Inix (Complete)
- Jankx In-Progress
- Jhakar
- Jozhal
- Kank
- Kes'trekel
- Lirr
- Mekillot
- Mulworm
- Pterrax
- Rasclinn
- Razorwing
- Sand Howler
- Spinewyrm
- Yallix
- Z'tal
My Pathfinder-Dark Sun game is coming to an end very soon. The PCs are level 12 and they've been kicking some serious tail. I've done a lot of improv with monster stats (taking a similar monster from a bestiary and adding some psionics or refluffing an ability or two) and its worked out well but I'm very curious to see Bodhizen's final bestiary of the classic Athasian monsters.
I fully intend to revisit the searing sands of Athas on a future campaign, and I will most likely be going down the Pathfinder route again since I had so much fun this time around.
Bodhizen, thanks for taking the time to work on this project. I will likely utilize your work in future games.
FYI, I used my "Water Find" rules that I posted earlier in the thread, and they've been working out very well. (posted again below in the spoiler for reference.) The DC's are still debatable, even as I look at them in light of using them for the last year or so. One must straddle the line between making a task achievable and keeping the intense difficulty of finding water outside of an oasis that is mandated in the source material. One might argue that the Salt Flats should be impossible to find water in with this method, for example.
Players may use the Survival Skill to find water. DCs listed are to find 1/2 gallon of water, +3 DC for every additional half gallon found. Using this skill takes 1 hour, movement reduced to 1/2 speed.
•Grasslands/farmlands................DC 10
•Forest Ridge..............................DC 10
•Scrub Plains..............................DC 15
•Stony Barrens..........................DC 15
•Rocky Badlands........................DC 25
•Salt Flats................................DC 35
Note that a successful check finds 1/2 gallon of water, so higher checks will be needed to survive for typical characters. (example, a DC 18 in the scrub plains would procure 1 gallon of water.)
Note that medium characters need to consume 1 gallon of water a day to stay hydrated and to prevent Con damage. Small characters need 1/2 this, large characters need 4x this.
Retries are allowed with a +5 cumulative penalty per retry.
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Hey, Zedth!
Thanks for reposting those Water Find rules. I've kind of been procrastinating with the bestiary (partly because I have to create each psionically gifted creature twice), but I have been picking away at it. Afterward, I'll likely move on to magical items. If anyone wanted to help me out with the remaining monsters in the bestiary, it would be greatly appreciated.
Best wishes!
How exactly are you defining the monster's CR? Based on their 2nd edition stats, 4th edition?
How exactly are you defining the monster's CR? Based on their 2nd edition stats, 4th edition?
They're (mostly) based off of CR from the 3.5 Campaign Setting from the May and June '04 editions of Dungeon Magazine.
Grinding my way through the project, I have to finish out:
- Athasian Feats. I'm looking for suggestions from anyone who's willing to offer them.
- Athasian Bestiary. I'll need a critical-eye and a volunteer or two to finish these. This part is always slow going.
- Bestiary Pictures. This is also a time-consuming activity. Assistance is appreciated.
Bestiary Listing:
- Avangion (Complete)
- Baazrag (Complete)
- Baazrag, Boneclaw (Complete)
- Belgoi (Complete)
- Braxat (Complete)
- Cilops (Complete)
- Critic Lizard (Complete)
- Crodlu (Complete)
- Dragon of Tyr (Complete)
- Sample Dragon King (Complete)
- Dune Reaper (Complete)
- Erdlu (Complete)
- Gaj (Complete)
- Giant (Humanoid, Beast-Head & Umbral) (Complete)
- Gith (Complete)
- Inix (Complete)
- Jankx (Complete)
- Jhakar (Complete)
- Jozhal (Complete)
- Kank (Complete)
- Kes'trekel (Complete)
- Klar (Complete)
- Lirr (Complete)
- Mekillot (Complete)
- Mulworm
- Psionic Cat, Tagster -
- Psionic Cat, Tigone -
- Pterrax
- Ramphor -
- Rasclinn
- Razorwing
- Sand Howler
- Speckled Hurrum -
- Spinewyrm
- Yallix
- Z'tal
If I might recommend -
You should probably add the Silk Worm to the bestiary list, as it is a fairly signature Athasian monster.
Regarding helping out, I would like to try to contribute if/when I can. You asked for help with Bestiary Pictures. Do you prefer a specific format? Resolution?
Any sources barred? (IE, do you prefer not to use the stock images of the creatures found in the 2e books?)
Would you like them emailed to you?
If I might recommend -
You should probably add the Silk Worm to the bestiary list, as it is a fairly signature Athasian monster.
I don't remember it being central to any literature or adventures.
Regarding helping out, I would like to try to contribute if/when I can. You asked for help with Bestiary Pictures. Do you prefer a specific format? Resolution?
Any sources barred? (IE, do you prefer not to use the stock images of the creatures found in the 2e books?)
Would you like them emailed to you?
I don't have any specific format that I prefer; I can always convert if need be. I do prefer high resolution, though there's not enough space to put every bestiary monster's image in.
I'm not barring any specific sources, but I am trying to avoid using 4th edition's images whenever possible.
Private message me and I can give you my e-mail.
Thanks!
Good to have some free darksun preview stuff. ;)
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Good to have some free darksun preview stuff. ;)
The entire .pdf is going to be a free download.
How complete do you want your monster list?
How complete do you want your monster list?
I'm not overly concerned that the bestiary contain every monster ever found on Athas in any product ever. I mostly want to cover the basics, and since some of the added monsters are candidates for animal companions or familiars, I thought it would be best to include them.
the burnt world of athas has 3.0 conversions for pretty much all of the monsters might save some work on the ones you have left to do.
the burnt world of athas has 3.0 conversions for pretty much all of the monsters might save some work on the ones you have left to do.
** spoiler omitted **
I've seen them. They're not quite what I was hoping for.
ok just thought i would throw it out there to help. I'm kinda handy with Photoshop i can color a black and white pic if you need me to. Just PM me a link.
The offer is greatly appreciated.
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Slowly, but steadily... I did a little more work this evening.
Grinding my way through the project, I have to finish out:
- Athasian Feats. I'm looking for suggestions from anyone who's willing to offer them.
- Athasian Bestiary. I'll need a critical-eye and a volunteer or two to finish these. This part is always slow going.
- Bestiary Pictures. This is also a time-consuming activity. Assistance is appreciated.
Bestiary Listing:
- Avangion (Complete)
- Baazrag (Complete)
- Baazrag, Boneclaw (Complete)
- Belgoi (Complete)
- Braxat (Complete)
- Cilops (Complete)
- Critic Lizard (Complete)
- Crodlu (Complete)
- Dragon of Tyr (Complete)
- Sample Dragon King (Complete)
- Dune Reaper (Complete)
- Erdlu (Complete)
- Gaj (Complete)
- Giant (Humanoid, Beast-Head & Umbral) (Complete)
- Gith (Complete)
- Inix (Complete)
- Jankx (Complete)
- Jhakar (Complete)
- Jozhal (Complete)
- Kank (Complete)
- Kes'trekel (Complete)
- Klar (Complete)
- Lirr (Complete)
- Mekillot (Complete)
- Mulworm (Complete)
- Nikaal - (Complete)
- Psionic Cat, Tagster
- Psionic Cat, Tigone
- Pterrax
- Ramphor
- Rasclinn
- Razorwing
- Sand Howler
- Speckled Hurrum
- Spinewyrm
- Yallix
- Z'tal
11 more beasts to go, and then I can move on to other parts of the Conversion!
Slow and steady! Thanks!
I can't wait for the finished project!
I can't wait for the finished project!
I can't wait to present it to you!
Dot.
Step by step... Inch by inch...
Grinding my way through the project, I have to finish out:
- Athasian Feats. I'm looking for suggestions from anyone who's willing to offer them.
- Athasian Bestiary. I'll need a critical-eye and a volunteer or two to finish these. This part is always slow going.
- Bestiary Pictures. This is also a time-consuming activity. Assistance is appreciated.
Bestiary Listing:
- Avangion (Complete)
- Baazrag (Complete)
- Baazrag, Boneclaw (Complete)
- Belgoi (Complete)
- Braxat (Complete)
- Cilops (Complete)
- Critic Lizard (Complete)
- Crodlu (Complete)
- Dragon of Tyr (Complete)
- Sample Dragon King (Complete)
- Dray -
- Dune Reaper (Complete)
- Erdlu (Complete)
- Gaj (Complete)
- Giant (Humanoid, Beast-Head & Umbral) (Complete)
- Gith (Complete)
- Inix (Complete)
- Jankx (Complete)
- Jhakar (Complete)
- Jozhal (Complete)
- Kank (Complete)
- Kes'trekel (Complete)
- Klar (Complete)
- Lirr (Complete)
- Mekillot (Complete)
- Mulworm (Complete)
- Nikaal (Complete)
- Psionic Cat, Tagster (Complete)
- Psionic Cat, Tigone (Complete)
- Pterrax (Complete)
- Ramphor
- Rasclinn
- Razorwing
- Sand Howler
- Speckled Hurrum
- Spinewyrm
- Yallix
- Z'tal
More progress...
Grinding my way through the project, I have to finish out:
- Athasian Feats. I'm looking for suggestions from anyone who's willing to offer them.
- Athasian Bestiary. I'll need a critical-eye and a volunteer or two to finish these. This part is always slow going.
- Bestiary Pictures. This is also a time-consuming activity. Assistance is appreciated.
Bestiary Listing:
- Avangion (Complete)
- Baazrag (Complete)
- Baazrag, Boneclaw (Complete)
- Belgoi (Complete)
- Braxat (Complete)
- Cilops (Complete)
- Critic Lizard (Complete)
- Crodlu (Complete)
- Dragon of Tyr (Complete)
- Sample Dragon King (Complete)
- Dray (Complete)
- Dune Reaper (Complete)
- Erdlu (Complete)
- Gaj (Complete)
- Giant (Humanoid, Beast-Head & Umbral) (Complete)
- Gith (Complete)
- Inix (Complete)
- Jankx (Complete)
- Jhakar (Complete)
- Jozhal (Complete)
- Kank (Complete)
- Kes'trekel (Complete)
- Klar (Complete)
- Lirr (Complete)
- Mekillot (Complete)
- Mulworm (Complete)
- Nikaal (Complete)
- Psionic Cat, Tagster (Complete)
- Psionic Cat, Tigone (Complete)
- Pterrax (Complete)
- Ramphor (Complete)
- Rasclinn (Complete)
- Razorwing
- Sand Howler
- Speckled Hurrum
- Spinewyrm
- Yallix
- Z'tal
If anyone has feat suggestions, I'm more than willing to entertain them.
I've been itching to get back to some Dark Sun for a while and my buddy pointed me to your thread. I'd be happy to try and brainstorm some appropriate feats ideas after I skim through your current materials.
I've been itching to get back to some Dark Sun for a while and my buddy pointed me to your thread. I'd be happy to try and brainstorm some appropriate feats ideas after I skim through your current materials.
Feel free to check out the links provided earlier in the thread.
So, not much progress today, but I'm getting there.
Grinding my way through the project, I have to finish out:
- Athasian Feats. I'm looking for suggestions from anyone who's willing to offer them.
- Athasian Bestiary. I'll need a critical-eye and a volunteer or two to finish these. This part is always slow going.
- Bestiary Pictures. This is also a time-consuming activity. Assistance is appreciated.
Bestiary Listing:
- Avangion (Complete)
- Baazrag (Complete)
- Baazrag, Boneclaw (Complete)
- Belgoi (Complete)
- Braxat (Complete)
- Cilops (Complete)
- Critic Lizard (Complete)
- Crodlu (Complete)
- Dragon of Tyr (Complete)
- Sample Dragon King (Complete)
- Dray (Complete)
- Dune Reaper (Complete)
- Erdlu (Complete)
- Gaj (Complete)
- Giant (Humanoid, Beast-Head & Umbral) (Complete)
- Gith (Complete)
- Inix (Complete)
- Jankx (Complete)
- Jhakar (Complete)
- Jozhal (Complete)
- Kank (Complete)
- Kes'trekel (Complete)
- Klar (Complete)
- Lirr (Complete)
- Mekillot (Complete)
- Mulworm (Complete)
- Nikaal (Complete)
- Psionic Cat, Tagster (Complete)
- Psionic Cat, Tigone (Complete)
- Pterrax (Complete)
- Ramphor (Complete)
- Rasclinn (Complete)
- Razorwing (Complete)
- Sand Howler
- Speckled Hurrum
- Spinewyrm
- Yallix
- Z'tal
- Banshee template for dwarves -
5 to go. I might get to one or two more tonight.
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So just a quick update: I've been brainstorming some feats, but having trouble with decent mechanics for some of them. A couple of them, like Wind-Sailing Vehicle Proficiency (based on the old proficiency from 2nd Edition's "Earth, Air, Fire, and Water"), require creating rules for vehicles like Cliff Gliders. This creates a need for additional outside work. That also applies to some of the things from "Mind Lords of the Last Sea" and "Windriders of the Jagged Cliffs". If you can't tell, my expertise lies in the 2nd Edition :P
The other issue is that a few are really more like traits than feats.
Thank goodness, I'm finally done with the Bestiary! Now, on to other parts of the project, namely feats. I'm also going to have to address magical items, normal gear, and probably survival rules (I've seen that water-finding rule earlier in the thread).
- Athasian Feats. I'm looking for suggestions from anyone who's willing to offer them.
- Add in the Vigilante class.
- Magical Items
- Mundane Items
- Survival Rules
Bestiary Complete!
Can we have a link to the Bestiary ?
To be quite honest... I think I'm going to refrain from posting more links until it's done. You've already seen a preview of the Dragon Kings.
Creeping ever closer... Vigilante class added, skill section done, one monster added, working on feats (could use help on that).
Some Feats:
Insect Handler (General)
You are able to train vermins such as kanks and cilops.
Prerequisites: Handle Animal 3 ranks.
Benefit: You can use the Handle Animal skill for vermin as though they were animals. For mindless vermin, they are treated as having 1 Intelligence.
Predator Antennae (Thri-Kreen)
Your antennae are developed to sense other creatures pheromones, enabling you to detect creatures nearby and follow their tracks.
Prerequisites: Thri-Kreen, Wis 13 and Perception or Survival 5 ranks.
Benefits: You can track creatures as if you had the Scent ability. However, you can only move at half your movement rate when doing so. Additionally, you can concentrate, as a full-round action that does not cause attacks of opportunity, and gain blindsense within a 10 feet radius until the start of your next turn.
Mantis Claws (Thri-Kreen)
Your arms have razor sharp claws, which can be used against your prey.
Prerequisites: Thri-Kreen, Con 13.
Benefit: You gain two Claw attacks, as appropriate to a creature of your size, that can be used independently of your hands being in use. Regardless of how many arms capable of attacking you have, only the two strongest arms develop those claws.
Never Blink (Thri-Kreen)
Your eyes are always open, looking all around you for potential prey.
Prerequisites: Thri-Kreen, Wis 13.
Benefit: You do not lose your Dexterity bonus to your Armor Class when caught by surprise or unaware of the enemy attacking you. You are still flat-footed until you have acted in combat. You do not gain this benefit if you cannot see your enemy, such as her being invisible.
Developed Arms (Thri-Kreen)
Your extra arms are stronger than normal.
Prerequisites: Thri-Kreen, Str 13
Benefit: Your two extra limbs are stronger and better developed than other Thri-Kreens and can be used to wield weapons or shields in combat. However, they still cannot be used to attack with different weapons, but they can be used to help wielding a two-handed weapon.
Fully Armed (Thri-Kreen)
Your extra arms are stronger than normal.
Prerequisites: Thri-Kreen, Str 15, Dex 13, Developed Arms
Benefit: Your two extra limbs are even stronger and dexterous, allowing them to be fully used in combat, wielding a weapon in each hand. If attacking with the two extra arms, they suffer a -5 penalty to your attack bonus, but roll using your highest attack bonus.
Special: If your two extra arms have natural weapons, those can be used as secondary weapons with -5 penalty on your highest attack bonus.