As I understand it, you can't select, for example, the Scaled Aspect from Dragon twice to get a higher Natural AC.
Seems like I missed the edit window on my last post. The Vigilance Aspect under Hero would be much more desirable if it granted a number of Temporary HP equal to 1/2 your Binder level (Min 1). I think it's important for it to scale with level, otherwise it will become irrelevant by level 5.
As I understand it, you can't select, for example, the Scaled Aspect from Dragon twice to get a higher Natural AC.
Oh. Well, that's a third way of reading it. Can this be clarified in the rules, Alex?
Knights of the Inner Sea (where that spell is from) isn't on the list of OGL Paizo Products that we can cite. Generally speaking, NONE of the Campaign Setting / Player Companion products can be cited; that's why Jayna couldn't originally say that functioned with void wizard elemental schools, and why we had to reprint all of the celestial totem rage powers in the barbarian section.
Gotcha. Fair enough. I suppose since the alarm is at will, even one at a time, I'd probably be a whole lot more willing to use it in comparison to casters. And you and some of your party being awake and prone when bandits charge your encampment is better then being asleep and prone for sure. Not to mention at least one or two will (probably) be awake for night watch. :)
Page 65: this paragraph is found under the wizard archetype Soul Weaver, "A weird witch’s binder level is equal to her level.The DC to resist a weird witch’s supernatural powers is equal to 10 + 1/2 the weird witch’s binder level + the weird witch’s sorcerer’s Charisma modifier.This ability replaces arcane bond and arcane school."
Completed my analysing the archetypes in the pdf. Apologies if a few of these issues have been dealt with, I wrote this up over a couple of days of looking at the information. I haven't looked at the spirits (beyond those on the SRD) yet, so I'm not sure how good the new ones are. Obviously that affects the power of things like tunnelled lore. There seems to be roughly one spirit of each constellation at each level, but I'm not sure whether different constellations specialise in different things. In my evaluations, I'm going to assume that if you can only bind from one constellation (of your choice) you can get to bind your favourite spirit (of 6th level or lower, of course) when you reach that level and still bind a decent one for what you want from, say, getting level 2 spirits on, with much more flexibility if you have access to the unbarred secret. Of course, this flexibility will also increase in the future if more spirits get released.
Occult Chemist:
Seems to give up a lot for what it gains. I haven't played an alchemist personally, but I understand that their three major class features are extracts, mutagens and bombs (in that order). The occult chemist gives up his bombs completely, and an extract-per-level, which is comparable to the full caster archetypes in loss (spell-per-level plus some more minor class features; the casters lose more from the spell-per-level but the extra features they lose seem to be less significant). However, the binding is worse than most archetypes'. Worse, the tunnelled addiction class feature is worse than tunnelled lore – even if unbarred worked with it (which it doesn't, technically – different class features) you take a crippling penalty if you decide to bind a spirit outside your constellation, or indeed if for whatever reason you don't have a spirit bound (you're attacked while performing the ritual, your equipment for the rituals is stolen, someone uses an ability to banish your spirit, …) Also, charisma is an ability the alchemist otherwise doesn't use, making the character more MAD. Wouldn't take.
Solar Orchid Sage – I haven't read the new spells and feats section, so can't really comment on this. That said, after you spend your first discovery on regaining your mutagen, it's basically two discoveries for the transmutation spells and the ability to choose some cosmetic aspects of people you transmute in certain ways.
Arcanist:
Typos: Binder Secret: “She must beet the binder secret's prerequisites”: beet>meet
Occult Exploiter description: “Tap into a neigh unlimited” neigh>nigh, unless you mean they're summoning the spirits of horses
Occult Exploiter Archetype: The loss of arcane points seems fairly minor: by the time the difference matters, you can drop a low level spell slot without much concern and regain the lost points. Missing out on your first level exploit is painful, mostly because it clashes with so many other archetypes. For some reason, the arcanist doesn't get to take the unbarred secret, so they're never going to get a great selection of spirits – a bit odd for a class whose mechanics are focussed around flexibility in the spells you can choose from. Diminished spellcasting is a deal breaker, as it delays access to your highest level spells for a level (putting you a whole spell level behind the wizard). Charisma based, but arcanist also benefits from a decent cha so that's ok. Overall, I think I'll give this a miss as written with the arcanist character I'm currently playing.
Barbarian:
Typos: The totemic sage loses his 4th level rage power for bind spirits, but also has it replaced in totemic lore.
Totemic Sage Archetype: Charisma dependency and tunnelled lore are two black marks against this archetype. However, the archetype doesn't cost much – fast movement and small amounts of DR are nice extras, but not the main focus of the class, and losing a rage power and having three more be predetermined isn't terrible. Overall, I think it's a good archetype – I think I'd nearly always take it unless there was something else I wanted, but then again improving the martial classes isn't exactly a bad thing. Depends somewhat on how the above error is resolved.
That said, it's also very OP for dipping – the only thing you lose out on in a 1 level dip is fast movement!
Bard:
Soul Muse Archetype: Charisma dependency is good for this class, and tunnelled lore can be worked around with unbarred. Diminished spellcasting is probably less bad than it is for full casters, for obvious reasons. On the other hand, you lose both a spell known and spell per day. Missing out on bardic knowledge isn't major, although it's a bit of an odd thing for a pact binder to lose thematically. Giving up versatile performances for binder secrets is a very good trade in my opinion, especially as you don't always have to do it. Soul musing, as well as having a confusingly similar name to the archetype itself, is probably also a reasonable deal (although failing binding checks can also be fun). Overall, I think this archetype is about right – I'd consider taking it, but it wouldn't be a clear decision.
This is another problem class for dipping, as it only loses a first level spell per day and known for all the benefits of binding, as well as bardic performance, etc.
Bloodrager:
Typos: Ravaged bloodline, should be “bloodline powerS”
Bind Spirits section of bloodsworn binder has the standard reference to tunnelled lore, but the archetype doesn't get tunnelled lore.
Bloodsworn Binder Archetype: Wow, give up all spellcasting? Ouch, but I guess that you get spell like abilities which are higher than the spells you give up. Also, no tunnelled lore! Bloodsworn bloodrager gains points for style, and isn't really a mechanical effect. It also doesn't cause the archetype to clash with any existing archetypes, so hooray. Binder secrets replacing bloodline spells on a one to one basis is also a good trade, which helps mitigate the loss of spells. Overall, I think this archetype again hits about the right balance, although I'm not an expert on the bloodrager without the archetype.
Brawler:
Typo: “brusier” instead of “bruiser” repeatedly in the text – three times in the first paragraph of bind spirits, twice in the first paragraph of occult flexibility, once each in the fourth, fifth, sixth and seventh paragraphs of occult flexibility, once in binder secret, and possibly more examples that I've missed
Occult flexibility: “count towards tha granted ability's...”
Binder secret allows you to select a secret in place of a bonus feat, but replaces your bonus feats?
Occult flexibility doesn't replace martial flexibility – I assume it's meant to
Occult Bruiser Archetype: This doesn't seem to give up very much, especially considering that tunnelled lore isn't present. Occult flexibility is probably less useful than martial flexibility, but there's not much difference in it, and giving up martial training and the small damage bonus from unarmed strike (which would only be 7.5 extra damage, even at 20th level) is a very small price to pay for binding. I'm not sure if Binder Secret is meant to just expand your bonus feats list to include the binder secrets, but even if it requires you to take secrets instead of bonus feats it's still pretty good. The archetype is also very tempting as a dip for a martial character, giving pact binding and some extra flexibility which grows as you get access to higher level spirits (ie with your character level), as well as full bab and the brawler's cunning.
Cavalier: Pactsworn Knight Archetype: Not too familiar with the Cavalier, but this seems to be fairly reasonable in what it gives up, especially given the tunnelled lore with no unbarring possibility. Perhaps a bit of a net positive, given you can get back the mount via vestigial companion. I feel like the archetype should also replace the “mounted charge” abilities with something else, though, since the class loses access to a native mount which is capable of surviving high level combats, so it seems a bit unfair to have abilities which only work when mounted.
Cleric: Occult Priest Archetype: Seems to miss out on very little. Channel energy and a domain are given up in exchange for the ability to summon spirits of the constellation associated with the remaining domain, and (probably) improved spontaneous casting. Perhaps too strong.
Druid:
Typos: Spirit Shape: “at 4th level, a pactsworn uses her wild shape”: level, a > level, when a
I'm also confused about what spells are and aren't eligible for spirit shaping – that section could use rephrasing, I think.
Pactsworn Pagan Archetype: Tunnelled lore here hurts even more than normal due to being limited in your choice of constellation, but then again the only important thing given up is the animal companion and you get a bit of extra flexibility with spirit shape. You can get the companion back again, but you still lose share spells. Overall, I think the archetype's ok, although it might give up a bit less than it gains.
Fighter: Warbinder Archetype: A substantial upgrade for the class: one bonus feat and bravery for spirit binding is a very good trade. Even better for dipping. Of course, fighter is a fairly weak class in the first place, though...
Gunslinger: Occult Avenger Archetype: I've never really looked at the gunslinger class, but the archetype seems to lose a lot for what it gives. Also, revenge pact doesn't seem to give any benefits. Is it meant to be a requirement for binding spirits? If so, that's even worse than tunnelled lore – you're limited to only a very narrow selection of spirits, and your choices are arbitrarily determined by who your enemies are. Also, revenge pact punishes you for actually killing your enemies – if you leave the enemy alive, then you retain all your bound powers while escaping his collapsing fortress, or whatever. Not a good archetype, or a clearly written one.
Hunter: Pactsworn Hunter Archetype: Seems like a reasonable trade at first glance, but I'm not familiar enough with the class to really comment.
Inquisitor: Another class I'm not familiar with. Occult Abolisher makes only minor changes. Occult Sadist has some really heavy penalties – diminished spellcasting, giving up the teamwork feats, and only being able to bind spirits from one constellation, with no choice about what constellation to choose. The antipaladin version of lay on hands is not enough to compensate for the loss of judgements in my opinion, either. That archetype needs improving, significantly. Pact protector is even worse – lose all spellcasting!? And be forced to take a domain instead of an inquisition, and a specific one at that? At that point, why not just play an occultist? The chassis is the same, and judgements aren't enough to compensate for the extra spirits, faster access to higher level spirits, and other minor benefits the occultist gets. Plus the standard MAD with charisma for an inquisitor.
Also, Pain Harvester should probably give some qualifier: “whenever a creature fails its fortitude saving throw against the occult sadist's abilities”, or something. As written, the ability will trigger when anyone, anywhere, fails a fortitude save against anything!
Investigator: Occult Investigator Archetype: Again, losing out on 6 levels of “casting” is too high a penalty for binding a single spirit, especially when the rest of the class is keyed off intelligence, not charisma. Needs improving.
Magus: Sibyl Archetype: Again, this is a bad choice due to completely losing the magus's spellcasting, which is the main feature of the class! Also charisma dependency, etc. Remember that the normal magus gains 6 levels of spellcasting compared to a full caster's 9: by the obvious rough estimate, that's 2/3 of a full caster's power. The Sibyl gains only one out of the occultist's 1-4 spirits bound – by 4th level, she only has ½ of the occultist's power, and the difference just gets worse from there. At the same time, the archetype seems like an overly good 1-2 level dip for a martial occultist – it advances all the occultist's major class features other than extra spirits, and gives some very useful “gish” abilities on top of that. I strongly feel that this one needs a rethink – if you want to make it into a pactbinding gish, then give it advancement close to a normal occultist's, and include some penalty to dissuade normal occultists from dipping into the class. Limiting the spirits available for binding springs to mind...
Monk: Empyrean Friar Archetype: The archetype gives up the AC bonus, which I feel is a mistake, as it's kind of needed to give the monk a halfway decent AC. That said, it does avoid the possibility of getting pact binding for free when dipping one level into monk for wis>AC. It also helps reduce the monk's reliance on wisdom, so the requirement for charisma doesn't hurt so much. Perhaps giving light armour proficiency would be reasonable, to help the monk's survivability without the AC bonus, while still not giving pact binding to characters who are just dipping into the class for the AC.
Oracle: Occult Medium Archetype: This suffers from the same penalty as the arcanist – getting access to new spell levels a level later than normal. On top of that, you also lose your mystery spells, the positive sides of the curse, and you have two revelations locked into abilities which are decent on their own, but have a lot of redundancy when taken together. It doesn't get tunnelled lore, though, so I suppose it's a bit better than the arcanist's archetype. It could be worth it. Perhaps.
Paladin: Pactsworn Champion Archetype: This does seem like a reasonable archetype, although people who are dipping the class for divine grace gain pact binding at the cost of a single smite evil. Shadow Templar's utility is entirely dependent on the campaign, but seems reasonably in the anti-binder game it's obviously intended for.
Also, does the pactsworn champion only ever give up one smiting per day (so they get smite evil 1/day at 4th level, etc), or do they give up all uses of smite evil? If it's the former, would it be better to rewrite it separately?
Ranger: Foe Reaper Archetype: Occult Grudge is better than the standard favoured enemy in my opinion, as the character can change it daily along with their bound spirit. The only thing the class really gives up is the 4 levels of spellcasting, which in my opinion is fairly reasonable for binding a single spirit. At low levels (1-3) the class doesn't give anything up for its pact binding abilities, though, which is a problem.
Rogue: Fringe Binder Archetype: Seems reasonable, at first glance at least. Suffers from the usual issue with dipping, though.
Shaman: I'm not really familiar with the class, and would need to look at it more to give any sort of useful comment.
Skald: Soul Screamer Archetype: Very similar to the Soul Muse bard archetype, and about the same – causes issues when a character takes a dip in a class, but otherwise ok.
Slayer:
Question: When the pactsworn assassin gives up “slayer's advance 1/day”, does that mean that he gets the ability 1/day at 17th level?
Typo: “Pactbane slayers as the ultime weapons of subterfuge”
Pactsworn Assassin Archetype: Seems ok. It gives up a lot of bits and pieces for soul binding, and I think it balances out overall.
Pactbane Slayer Archetype: Highly campaign dependent in usefulness, but nothing leaps out as being far too powerful.
Sorcerer: Seal-Bound Sorcerer Archetype: Another case of diminished spellcasting effectively losing you a caster level, and making the archetype terrible. And tunnelled lore, with no access to the unbarred secret. This makes the archetype a bad choice for anyone playing a sorcerer. On the other hand, anyone dipping a single level sorcerer for the bloodline abilities will love the archetype, especially as it appears to be possible to combine it with crossblooded.
Summoner:
Typo: Reference to tunnelled lore and chosen constellations in the spirit caller's bind spirits ability
Spirit Caller Archetype: Firstly, I'm a bit surprised that eidolon isn't on the list of available vestigial bonds. Secondly, it's painful to give up one of the main class features of the summoner, but I think the archetype is viable, even if Loh'Moi isn't on the list of summonable spirits. The archetype seems fine, and the usual caveat about dipping doesn't even really apply since the summoner – barring certain archetypes which can't be combined with this one – doesn't make a very good dip.
Swashbuckler: Not familiar with this class at all, so I can't comment.
Warpriest: Typo: Diminished spellcasting refers to the Pactsworn Warpriest as a weird witch. Other than that, I'm not familiar with the class and again can't comment.
Witch: Weird Witch Archetype: Losing major hexes isn't as significant as you might think, since a lot of them aren't very good and the best hexes are available from low levels anyway. A prepared caster with a decent ability score doesn't suffer the loss of spell level diminished spellcasting gives a spontaneous one, and the penalty is less bad anyway. Tunnelled Patron technically can't be dealt with by unbarred, as it's not the same as Tunnelled Lore, which may not be the intention. Either way, though, giving your familiar all the abilities is a large power boost for the witch, since it lets you cast a spell and use a pact ability on the same turn. Granted, the witch really doesn't want to put her familiar (read: “spellbook”) in danger, but the occult familiar ability gives the familiar something to do rather than just sit there providing a passive skill boost unless and until the player decides to get an improved familiar to use a wand. I really like the ability, but feel like the class should lose a bit more for it.
Wizard: Typos: Final paragraph of Soul Weaver's spirit binding ability refers to the weird witch, and the sorcerer.
Soul Weaver Archetype: Obviously, losing the arcane school is the equivalent of diminished spellcasting, and in this case is only a moderate penalty (the wizard is still guaranteed 1+ spells at his highest spell level, unlike spontaneous casters). Beyond that, he loses a couple of decent spellcasting related abilities (arcane bond, which doesn't really count because it's replaced by vestigial boon, and a third school) for binding from three schools. I think the archetype is about right. I'd be inclined to play it if I was playing a wizard, but because it seems fun rather than because it seems more powerful.
Alchemist:
Occult Chemist: Too weak
Solar Orchid Sage: Seems decent
Arcanist:
Occult Exploiter: Too weak
Barbarian:
Totemic Sage: More powerful than the base class, but not dramatically so. Problematic for dipping
Bard:
Soul Muse: About right, but problematic for dipping
Bloodrager:
Bloodsworn Binder: About right
Brawler:
Occult Bruiser: Seems a bit powerful, especially for dips
Cavalier:
Pactsworn Knight: About right
Cleric:
Occult Priest: A bit too powerful
Druid:
Pactsworn Pagan: About right
Fighter
Warbinder: Significantly more powerful than the base class, but that's possibly a good thing. Problematic for dipping
Gunslinger:
Occult Avenger: Suffers from both a lack of clarity and being a poor archetype, as best as I can understand what it's meant to do
Hunter: Not familiar with the class
Inquisitor:
Occult Abolisher: Campaign dependent, and minor
Occult Sadist: Too weak
Pact Protector: Far too weak
Investigator:
Occult Investigator: Too weak
Magus:
Sibyl: Too weak as a full class, and incidentally rather too powerful for an occultist dipping into it
Monk:
Empyrean Friar: Too weak due to AC issues; would be ok if it gave light armour proficiency
Oracle:
Occult Medium: Too weak, due to the diminished spells issue
Paladin:
Pactsworn Champion: About right, but problematic for dipping
Shadow Templar: Campaign dependent
Ranger:
Foe Reaper: About right at high levels, gives up next to nothing at low levels
Rogue:
Fringe Binder: About right, but problematic for dipping
Shaman: Not familiar with the class
Skald:
Soul Screamer: About right, but problematic for dipping
Slayer:
Pactsworn Assassin: About right
Pactsbane Slayer: Campaign dependent
Sorcerer:
Seal-Bound Sorcerer: Too weak for a full class, and simultaneously problematic for dipping
Summoner:
Spirit Caller: About right
Swashbuckler: Not familiar with the class
Warpriest: Not familiar with the class
Witch:
Weird Witch: OP due to action economy issues
Wizard:
Soul Weaver: About right
Major issues which I found were coming up repeatedly in (my opinion of) the archetypes' balance were:
Potential for dipping: As binder level increases even when you're taking levels in non-binder class, if you're planning to dip into a different class for a couple of levels to get some ability or other, then if its binding archetype doesn't replace that ability then it's almost invariably a good idea to take it, as it'll give you a whole set of abilities which will continue to scale as you gain levels. One possible fix might be to give only a more limited form of spirit binding (eg only one minor ability/level) until you've gained a few levels in binding classes.
Diminished spellcasting: Has too big a penalty for full spontaneous spellcasters, who lose a spell per day and spell known at each level, and also have their maximum spell level decreased by one at even levels. Fine for everyone else.
Losing all spellcasting: Ok for classes which only get 4 levels of spells, but for classes with 6 levels, spellcasting is a key part of their class abilities, and losing it completely is too much to pay for binding a single spirit (and not even getting the progression of an occultist). At that point, there's little incentive not to just play an occultist and get access to up to three extra spirits, and higher level ones.
Unbarred and Tunnelled Not-Lore: Is Unbarred supposed to work on abilities which work like tunnelled lore, but have different names? The weird witch's tunnelled patron, for instance. It technically doesn't, currently.
Knights of the Inner Sea (where that spell is from) isn't on the list of OGL Paizo Products that we can cite. Generally speaking, NONE of the Campaign Setting / Player Companion products can be cited; that's why Jayna couldn't originally say that functioned with void wizard elemental schools, and why we had to reprint all of the celestial totem rage powers in the barbarian section.
Also, the point of the ability is that Marat keeps watch for YOU. Hence alarm.
Ah--I didn't realize this about the OGL products, either.
Your comment about Marat does bring up a question, though--when a binder is bound to a spirit and using its powers, is it that the spirit is doing things for you (as you mention for Marat) or that you are doing things with the spirit's power? This distinction doesn't have an effect on the mechanics but the flavor--for example, with the skill bonuses are you just suffused with the extra knowledge or is the spirit whispering in your ear to advise you or controlling your body at the right moment for physical skills?
Unbarred and Tunnelled Not-Lore: Is Unbarred supposed to work on abilities which work like tunnelled lore, but have different names? The weird witch's tunnelled patron, for instance. It technically doesn't, currently.
From my understanding with the archetypes, the "Tunneled" abilities only count as the "Tunneled Lore" feature if explicitly stated.
For example, with the Occult Priest:
Tunneled Domain:
...This ability counts as having the tunneled lore class feature for the purpose of feats and other prerequisites.
Potential for dipping: As binder level increases even when you're taking levels in non-binder class, if you're planning to dip into a different class for a couple of levels to get some ability or other, then if its binding archetype doesn't replace that ability then it's almost invariably a good idea to take it, as it'll give you a whole set of abilities which will continue to scale as you gain levels. One possible fix might be to give only a more limited form of spirit binding (eg only one minor ability/level) until you've gained a few levels in binding classes.
I don't see this as being an issue with the current revisions of the rules. Your Maximum Spirit Level would only increase when your levels in the specific binding class increase. For example, a Soul Muse 4 and a Pactsworn Warpriest 3 would have a Maximum Spirit Level of 2 (for the 4th level of Soul Muse)--only the highest Maximum Spirit Level of your various classes count--they don't combine.
The pact magic classes DO combine for binder level, while every non-pact magic class level counts as half a binder level.
If you don't dip at least 4 levels in one of the pact magic archetypes you only have access to Level 1 Spirits. In addition, with the change of relevant ability scores for binding, this means only Charisma matters when it comes to binding spirits.
Assuming you dip 4 levels in a pact magic archetype and are Charisma based (and are Level 20):
Maximum Spirit Level: 2nd
Effective Binder Level: 4 (archetype) + 8 (half of 16) = 12
Binding Check: 1d20 + 6 + 9 (Inherent Charisma of 18, ability gains used to make it 22, +6 Charisma item)
DC of Abilities: 25 = 10 + 6 (Half binder level) + 9 (Charisma score of 28)Average Binding DC of Level 1 Spirit: 17
Average Binding DC of Level 1 Spirit to get Capstone: 27Average Binding DC of Level 2 Spirit: 20
Average Binding DC of Level 2 Spirit to get Capstone: 30
So even with Charisma was your major stat, you'd need to roll 12+ or 15+ to receive your bound spirit's capstone, and any offensive ability with a DC of 25 wouldn't be difficult to resist at 20.
If Charisma wasn't your main stat (a dump stat for most), you'd need 11+ or 14+ to even avoid making a poor pact (which, depending on your class and the spirit, can range from annoying to crippling) and your abilities' DCs would only be 16.
With an effective caster level of 12 for abilities that replicate spells, in either case this would grant you increased utility but I don't think it's a major issue.
It's also worth noting that Knowledge Tasks are now mandatory in order to learn more spirits (or Grimoires which are very expensive), so if you don't have good Int it's going to take quite a while to learn new spirits.
Page 8: Fiendish Horns and Fiendish Resiliance should have asterisks next to them, as they physically alter the body.
Page 9: Root Stance. This seems kinda weak. I'm not sure anyone would ever take it. It takes a move action to be able to gain a small bonus to some of the most rarest used combat maneuvers (and you have to be able to predict it's going to be used against you!), and then another move action to get out of it - and meanwhile you can't move. That's a ton of wasted actions for a small situational bonus. Perhaps if it could be used reactively as an immediate action, and then takes a move action to get out of it. That might make it more on par with other constellation aspects and make it more likely to be used in game. Another possibility is that it makes you completey immune to those maneuvers; although this might be too powerful - but at the cost of two move actions and you cannot move yourself the entire time, it might not.
Page 8: seer constellation aspect - canny prediction. Why does this ability not work on a natural 1? Natural 1s aren't a part of initiative rolls, they're only a part of attack rolls, combat maneuvers, and saving throws.
Page 242: Ashvattha. Typo, "The distance teleported, as was as which spell effect is used..." Also, for this ability, is the direction teleported also random? Either way, are up and down viable directions? Are they teleported at the same elevation or always on the surface of the planet or always in a viable (aka survivable) location or something else?
Page 254: the warglord 9th level spirit. The minor abilities are listed as major abilities (basically, the sections for major and minor abilities are both titled as major abilities).
I will say, I was a little disappointed that the Warbinder is no longer compatible with the Lore Warden archetype (it gives up Bravery, which the Warshade archetype does not).
Outside of that, I like everything I've read so far! I would point out the minor editing errors I've found, but I think others on this thread have done a much better job than I can, and at a much faster rate.
Your comment about Marat does bring up a question, though--when a binder is bound to a spirit and using its powers, is it that the spirit is doing things for you (as you mention for Marat) or that you are doing things with the spirit's power? This distinction doesn't have an effect on the mechanics but the flavor--for example, with the skill bonuses are you just suffused with the extra knowledge or is the spirit whispering in your ear to advise you or controlling your body at the right moment for physical skills?
Generally, both.
Most spirit bonuses are insight bonuses, which means they're actively giving you that insight. This can take the form of flashes of the spirit's life, gut feelings from the spirit itself, or whispers echoing from the recesses of your character's mind. Every spirit is unique in how it chooses to commune with its binder and its mostly left up to player interpretation because the spirits also aren't very consistent with how they interact with their binders.
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Binding check math.
Absolutely not.
Dario and I balanced spirit binding DCs assuming that it is difficult for at-level PCs to earn capstone empowerments. If we wanted you to have them all the time, we would have just given them to you. (And true, there are magic items and feats that make capstone empowerments easier to get; they simply don't automatically ensure that you'll be suffering the spirit's personality influence.)
In short, we EXPECT the occultist to have to suffer the personality influence, and possibly show the spirit's physical sign. Hiding and dealing with those sort of repercussions is what makes pact magic what it is, and that's the whole point of the feel of the class. That's what separates our occultist from Occult Adventure's medium. If you as a binder (whether NPC or PC) are not investing your resources into ways that make pactmaking easier, then that's on you. Those options exist for a reason, and what you're describing in terms of difficulty is intentional.
I just wanted to agree with Orich's take on Marat's abilities. They are more in line and certainly more thematically correct than the newly revised version that was posted in this discussion thread.
Also have one quick question ... is there going to be a feat tree which allows for a dabbler of pact magic to obtain an equivalent binder level of 20? Currently there is the Amateur Occultist feat which is awesome! But I was wondering if there would be an entire tree of such feats (although the ability to only bind one spirit would remain, I am only speaking of the character's equivalent binding level.)
Cheers
Volf
Amateur Occultist was created to get rid of the old Minor Binding feat chain. With non-pact magic using classes counting as half a level you'll wind up with an effective binder level of 10. Your ability DCs will cap out at 15 + Cha as well.
You'll note that this doesn't qualify you for other feats that require the "Bind spirits class feature." Honestly, this feat is really good, and what balances it out is the reduced binder level as well as the disadvantage of not being able to take any binding feats. This feat truly represents a dabbler in pact magic.
If you want to have a character who is more than a dabbler, then there are many good class archetypes (or the Occultist for those that want to master pact magic).
Should Ethanial Midnight's Instant Manacles ability have a Saving Throw? None is listed.
They didn't have one, but they probably should. This is what they'll look like in the next version.
"Instant Manacles: You can conjure magical bindings that wrap themselves around one target within 30 feet as a standard action. A successful Reflex save negates this effect. The manacles have a good lock that is magically secured by arcane lock. The manacles have hardness 10 + half your binder level and hit points equal to 10 + your binder level. The Strength or Escape Artist DC to escape from these manacles is equal to 25 + half your binder level. If the manacles are escaped or removed, they are destroyed. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier."
Additional note: The Escape Artist DC was lowered for this version of the manacles. Because 35 + half your binder level was just mean.
Page 83, first paragraph of the white section reads, "This bonus stacks between multiple weeks so long as the binder continues to research the same aspect of the same spirit; if he the spirit or the aspect he is researching, he loses this bonus."
Bolded the issue. I suspect this is supposed to read, "if he changes..."
Does this clear it up for you? (I added a bit more to the example to help make it even clearer what happens.)
In order to complete a Knowledge Task, the binder selects one spirit and spends 1 week researching an aspect of the spirit’s existence: either its constellation, its history, its personality, or its true name. A binder cannot attempt to fulfill a Knowledge Task for a spirit whose spirit level exceeds his maximum spirit level. At the end of the week, the binder attempts a Knowledge check against a DC of 30 + the spirit’s level; the type of Knowledge check depends upon which aspect of the spirit the binder is researching, as noted below. If the binder succeeds on this Knowledge check, he fulfills the Knowledge Task for that aspect. If he fails, the binder does not fulfill the Knowledge Task but he receives a +5 bonus on his next Knowledge check to attempt to fulfill that same Knowledge Task. This bonus stacks between multiple weeks so long as the binder continues to research the same aspect of the same spirit; if he begins researching a different spirit or a different aspect of the current spirit that he is researching, he loses all bonuses on Knowledge Tasks that he has accumulated for the aspect that he stopped researching .For example, if Balton, a 1st level occultist, attempts to fulfill Cave Mother’s constellation Knowledge Task (DC 31) with his +6 bonus on Knowledge (arcana) checks, the highest he can roll is a 26, so he will fail his first week of researching. On his next week of researching Cave Mother’s constellation, however, Balton receives an additional +5 bonus to uncover Cave Mother’s seal, increasing his bonus to +11. Since it is unlikely that he will roll a natural 20, if Balton fails again this week, he receives another +5 bonus to uncover Cave Mother’s seal each week until he fulfills Cave Mother’s Knowledge Task with a successful DC 31 check. If Balton found an ancient tablet that grants him a +10 bonus on checks to fulfill Cave Mother’s personality Knowledge Tasks before completing her constellation Knowledge Task, he could abandon his studies of Cave Mother’s constellation in order to study her personality, but doing so would cause him to lose the +10 bonus that he has earned from his two weeks spent studying Cave Mother’s constellation, even if he later returns to this Knowledge Task after discovering her personality.
Karmic Strike: As an immediate action when you take hit point damage you deal the same amount of hit point damage to the attacker. This requires you to hit with an attack, though, and it doesn't specify what kind of attack. The capstone lets you double the damage if the attack kills you. This could be fun, but I think the wording could be cleaned up.
I'll see what I Can do. Its supposed to trigger off of any attack, spell, or supernatural ability that deals hit point damage to you.
Reptilian Affinity: You gain a bonus to Diplomacy and Handle Animal with reptilian humanoids and animals, and you can use Diplomacy to influence them. I don't see this coming up much.Serpent Skin: You gain +2 natural AC and a bonus vs. poison of half your binder level. I feel this would be better if it had progression.
Most spirits are designed around having one "meh" low-power ability (like Marat's new alarm SLA). Iona has two to balance around the incredible versatility and power that is her Iona's gift granted ability.
Abjure Missiles: You gain Deflect Arrows until the end of the turn; the capstone makes this 1 round. What's fun about this ability is that you polymorph the projectiles into Tiny birds. The feat only works on one attack per round while the ability sounds like it would be all projectiles, so if it acts purely as the feat I think it's underpowered.
I forgot about the one/round limit. That's definitely too weak for a major ability. It'll look like this in version 2 of the playtest document:
Abjure Missiles: You deflect arrows by transforming them into songbirds, gaining the benefits of Deflect Arrows until the end of the turn. Unlike Deflect Arrows, this abilities allows you to deflect a number of projectiles during the turn equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum 1). Abjure missiles does not require an action to activate, though you cannot use abjure missiles while you are flat-footed or unconscious. All projectiles deflected by abjure missiles are permanently polymorphed into Tiny birds that immediately fly away from combat after being deflected. Treat all projectiles deflected by abjure missiles as though they were destroyed, though magical projectiles receive a Will save to negate the polymorph effect, though they are still deflected. After using this ability, it becomes expended for 5 rounds.
Keen Eye: Weaker than before--you no longer get Profession(painter) as well. Not a huge loss, of course, but a loss nonetheless.
The reason its gone is that technically, Profession (painter) isn't a skill. Craft (painting) is. But then again, which is which isn't well-defined in Pathfinder (or its predecessors, for that matter).
Hold Tongue: This has now become the major ability, replacing Touch of Pleasure. The duration has been reduced from binder level minutes to binder level rounds, and without the capstone requires a melee touch attack (the capstone allows you to use it again a target within 30 ft. without an attack). Will negates, and the target gets to attempt a new save each round. This is also a mind-affecting compulsion effect. This ability seems to be weak, honestly. It targets Will, which most casters (the only ones really affected by this) have a high save for. They also get to attempt to save each round, even if it does last for binder level rounds. I would not use this ability very often, and the old major, Touch of Pleasure, looks to be better.
I was going to argue for this ability, as it was balanced around silence and steal voice, but then I realized that both of those effects were A) 2nd-level spells and B) more powerful than hold tongue at their respective niches. So in the next build, this ability will be adjusted to the following:
Hold Tongue: You make one target unable to speak with a touch as a standard action, causing one target to permanently lose its ability to speak. This prevents the target from being able perform the verbal components of any spells or abilities he possesses. A successful Will save negates this effect. This ability is a mind-affecting compulsion effect and can be removed by either break enchantment or remove malady†; use your binder level as your caster level when determining the caster level DC for this granted ability. After using this ability, it becomes expended for 5 rounds.
Blinding Beauty: This ability takes Hold Tongue's old place, and gives you a gaze attack that causes all targets within 30 ft. to become blinded for 1 round per binder level. There is no save for this ability and it can be used 3+Cha/day. Honestly, this seems to be a better major ability than Hold Tongue, as it would affect casters and non-casters equally.
Its not the major because I felt that unlimited, no-save blinding was too powerful without a daily limit. Even if 6 + Cha is eight times per day, that means you can't count on it for every combat.
Constellation Aspects (Continued): Of these three, I would like to see Mage get another look.
Mage : Automatic Writing I'm not sure how often this ability would come up, but it could be fun for role playing. Discern Arcana This cover's two important abilities Occultist don't otherwise have. Not very flashy, but very useful. Any chance of adding a bonus to Spellcraft checks here? Magic Apex A bonus to saves vs spells and spell-like effects is always welcome. I imagine this would be one of the most frequently chosen Aspects beyond about level 5 Elemental Ray The current ability doesn't specify that the ray is a Touch Attack. Any chance of this ability being changed? It's not bad, it's just that the game is full of generic "Ranged touch attack, elemental damage" abilities. I'd like to see something else here, maybe like this:
Elemental Eruption: Select acid, cold, electricity, or fire. The occultist releases a burst of Elemental Energy that deals 1d6 points of energy damage of the chosen type + 1 point per Occultist level she possesses to all creatures within 5 feet of the Occultist. A Reflex save reduces this damage by half. The occultist can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + her Charisma modifier.
Abjure Missiles: You deflect arrows by transforming them into songbirds, gaining the benefits of Deflect Arrows until the end of the turn. Unlike Deflect Arrows, this abilities allows you to deflect a number of projectiles during the turn equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum 1). Abjure missiles does not require an action to activate, though you cannot use abjure missiles while you are flat-footed or unconscious. All projectiles deflected by abjure are permanently polymorphed into Tiny birds that immediately fly away from combat after being deflected. Treat all projectiles deflected by abjure missiles as though they were destroyed, though magical projectiles receive a Will save to negate the polymorph effect, though they are still deflected. After using this ability, it becomes expended for 5 rounds.
This feels much more like a major now and will make the spirit a good choice for any caster-like Occultists.
The first sentence mentions "arrows" and should probably be "projectiles" to avoid confusion.
Will this ability work on any projectile or is it limited to "reasonably deflected" projectiles like the feat? (No boulders, ballista bolts, etc.)
If someone performs a "fastball special" with a sprite or hedgehog targeting you, they would get a Will save as well, correct? A rare enough thing to happen that it should just fall under DM purview, but I thought of it and it made me chuckle. Also a great way to "catch" someone falling out the window, as long as you can track them down after they turn into a bird.
Hold Tongue: You make one target unable to speak with a touch as a standard action, causing one target to permanently lose its ability to speak. This prevents the target from being able perform the verbal components of any spells or abilities he possesses. A successful Will save negates this effect. This ability is a mind-affecting compulsion effect and can be removed by either break enchantment or remove malady†; use your binder level as your caster level when determining the caster level DC for this granted ability. After using this ability, it becomes expended for 5 rounds.
This is a nice buff to the power and gives it even more dependable out-of-combat use--nothing better than a guard that can't call for help!
Its not the major because I felt that unlimited, no-save blinding was too powerful without a daily limit. Even if 6 + Cha is eight times per day, that means you can't count on it for every combat.
That makes sense--it's a great ability for any Occultist build, really. For a tank it acts as a lockdown, and on a caster it's a great defense when that one enemy gets through the front lines.
Forever Young ...
Yes, it does affect you both mentally and physically. There will be a note of that in the next version.
Guile of Vandrae: Same as before, but with the old Hide in Plain Sight Ability at 15th level. It's great that Hide in Plain Sight wasn't tossed away completely, but 15th level seems too high for this ability--maybe 10th would feel more useful.
Its balanced around when you could grab Hide in Plain Sight using Eldritch Heritage: shadow.
Sneak Attack: This ability has gotten worse--it maxes out at 3d6 at 19th level and the first increase occurs at 12th level. It does stack with other sources of precision damage, but otherwise seems a bit weak.
Its balanced around the druid's Crocodile Domain. Before, it was VERY powerful, and now that the fringe binder doesn't lose sneak attack damage dice, it needed to be scaled back.
Q: Cornelius Button, Alignments: Can a Pactsworn Champion bind with Light Cornelius? What happens if an odd number occurs during binding (so that it's Dark Cornelius)?
Good question! Cornelius is actually listed as being Neutral on the table at the start of the chapter, so no, a pactsworn champion can't bind him because he doesn't meet that archetype's requirements until after the pact has been determined.
Q: Cornelius Button, Pollen Spray: Does the Dark Cornelius's sickened condition persist as long as the target is poisoned?
Fixed. They're sickened until the Constitution damage caused by the poison is healed.
Q: The Crystal Lady, Vestigial Bond: Is there a maximum number of abilities that can be transferred? A spirit whose ability is shared cannot be expelled while you're bound to The Crystal Lady--does this only apply to the Expel Spirits feat or does it also protect against any attempts to dismiss/exorcise/expel the spirit?
Remember, Chapter 3 defines the difference between expel and exorcise: expel is the binder choosing to get rid of her spirit, exorcise is someone else forcing the spirit out of the binder's body.
Q: The Crystal Lady, Vestigial Bond: Is there a maximum number of abilities that can be transferred? A spirit whose ability is shared cannot be expelled while you're bound to The Crystal Lady--does this only apply to the Expel Spirits feat or does it also protect against any attempts to dismiss/exorcise/expel the spirit?
Clarified below:
"While you are bound to the Crystal Lady, you can transfer one minor granted ability from any spirit currently bound to you to a touched ally as a full-round action. This transfer lasts for the duration of your pact with the Crystal Lady or the spirit whose ability you have transferred (whichever ends first) and during this time, the transferred ability is suppressed for you. If you transfer a spirit’s granted ability to an ally, you cannot expel that spirit by any means. You can transfer any number of granted abilities in this manner, but you you may only transfer one ability each time you use this ability. This granted ability replaces destiny dissonance."
Q: Forty-Two, Personality Influence: You do not respond or speak unless spoken to, but you must correct all flawed logic that you overhear or encounter. Does the logic correction overwrite the inability to speak, or do you only correct flawed logic when you're spoken to?
Corrected below:
"You do not respond or speak unless spoken to or you hear someone speak a logical fallacy. You must correct all logical fallacies that you overhear or encounter. "
Q: Ghato'Kacha, Karmic Strike: What type of attack do you need to make to be able to activate Karmic Strike? It mentions being hit with a spell that deals hit point damage, so can the Karmic Strike be a ranged attack? An ability? It states you deal an amount of damage equal to the damage you take, but would your attack also inflict any additional effects as normal? For example, if your weapon you hit with was poisoned, or if you hit with a flaming sword (something that has additional damage).
The ability has been updated to state that it will trigger off of spells, spell-like abilities, and supernatural abilities in addition to attacks. Part of the ability has been revised for clarity (see below):
"Karmic Strike: You make a retaliatory strike against a creature that hits you with an attack or targets you with a harmful spell, spell-like ability, or supernatural ability that deals hit point damage as an immediate action. If you hit, when your target deals damage to you with the attack, you deal the same amount of damage to the target instead of dealing damage normally. This ability must be used after an attack or saving throw is made but before damage is calculated. Effects aside from hit point damage (such as poison) are not afflicted onto the attacker. Karmic strike doesn’t benefit from effects that modify your attacks, such as Power Attack, special weapon abilities, or any doses of poison that have been applied to your weapon. After using this ability, it becomes expended for 5 rounds."
Q: Ghato'Kacha, Gentle Kiss: Do you have to be able to kiss to have this ability activate? For example, if I'm a tiger with the grab ability, would a lick count as a kiss or does it have to be a humanoid form with lips?
Kissing is flavor text; you can substitute whatever mouth-things your form can use for this ability.
Q: Kaiya, Abjure Missiles: Can this ability deflect large projectiles like boulders or ballista bolts? The imagery is great of a massive boulder about to hit the castle walls only to be turned into a bird at the last moment.
No, but that sounds like a pretty cool ability for a Mythic version of Kaiya .... ;-)
Q: Muse Istago, Paint Reality: Is there a maximum number of illusions you can have at a time? Can you dismiss them once they're created if you've met the capstone? What does it mean when your illusions also gain tactile elements? Does this turn them into pseudo-real creations that are more difficult to see through? Or would this allow you to paint a bridge that can actually allow people to walk across it? I like the imagery there--"As long as you believe in the bridge, it's a bridge." "I don't see how that----*Falls through the bridge*"
—Yes; one. Note paint reality's expenditure; paint reality becomes expended after it is used and for 5 rounds after it ends. That means you create an illusion and you can't create a new one until five rounds after you dismiss your current one or its duration expires.
— Illusion spells are generally dismissible, so yes.— Tactile means touch, so if you touch one of Muse Istago's illusions at that point, it feels like that thing should feel like. Whether or not that makes the illusion more difficult to disbelief is up to the GM, as disbelieving illusions is somewhat vague in Pathfinder.
— That latter example could certainly come true. Good thing you can always choose to fail a saving throw. I think. Maybe. Better let the party Wizard cast feeblemind on you before you cross. ;-)
Abjure Missiles: You deflect arrows by transforming them into songbirds, gaining the benefits of Deflect Arrows until the end of the turn. Unlike Deflect Arrows, this abilities allows you to deflect a number of projectiles during the turn equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum 1). Abjure missiles does not require an action to activate, though you cannot use abjure missiles while you are flat-footed or unconscious. All projectiles deflected by abjure missiles are permanently polymorphed into Tiny birds that immediately fly away from combat after being deflected. Treat all projectiles deflected by abjure missiles as though they were destroyed, though magical projectiles receive a Will save to negate the polymorph effect, though they are still deflected. After using this ability, it becomes expended for 5 rounds.
Just out of my own personal curiosity, and to make sure, would abjure missiles deflect bullets from firearms and slings?
Q: Muse Istago, Vestigial Bond: I think this would be a great place to grant a unique companion. It could replace your major ability and perhaps act as summon monster or summon nature's ally limited to one creature, or lesser simulacrum or something similar. I wouldn't want it to be too powerful, but having it replace the major ability and count as a vestigial companion would help balance it out.
Unique is difficult when you have four lines of text to work with. :-P
Q: N'alyia, Vampiric Touch: As written, this can be used on any creature, even those that don't have "life." Does this need to specify a living creature as the target? Should this be inflicting untyped damage? I hate to ask, as the ability is so good as written, but I want to make sure it's not too powerful.
Fixed to state "living creature" instead of the fully "victims" bit.
Q: N'alyia, Mesmerize: Moy specifically states in her description that the suggestion/geas effect ends when the pact with Moy ends. Does that same restriction apply to Mesmerize? I also didn't see anywhere in the Granted Abilities section what happens if a duration for an effect is longer than the pact--based on the specifics stated for Moy this means they can continue past the pact ending?
Good catch. I'll go back and check Chapter 3 to see if I included rules for that; it should say something along the lines of, "Unless noted otherwise, a spirit's granted abilities end when its pact ends, regardless of any remaining duration they possess."
Muse Istago, Vestigial Bond: I think this would be a great place to grant a unique companion. It could replace your major ability and perhaps act as summon monster or summon nature's ally limited to one creature, or lesser simulacrum or something similar. I wouldn't want it to be too powerful, but having it replace the major ability and count as a vestigial companion would help balance it out.
Just a thought to go along with the summon monster line of thinking here. What if you summoned a temporary (like d4+1 rounds) eidolon with a very specific number of evolution points. That would probably slow the game down quite a bit though...... never mind. Carry on.
Also, I added this to the Granted Ability rules in Chapter 3: Pactmaking. I feel like this was assumed common sense before, but now its official:
"When a pact with a spirit ends, any active effects created by that spirit’s granted abilities also end unless noted otherwise, even if they function as a spell with a duration that would extend beyond the pact itself. Effects with a permanent or instantaneous duration, such as those created fabricate, do not end when a spirit’s granted ability ends unless noted otherwise."
If anyone finds anything in a spirit entry that's made redundant by this, please let me know so I can fix the redundancy.
Muse Istago, Vestigial Bond: I think this would be a great place to grant a unique companion. It could replace your major ability and perhaps act as summon monster or summon nature's ally limited to one creature, or lesser simulacrum or something similar. I wouldn't want it to be too powerful, but having it replace the major ability and count as a vestigial companion would help balance it out.Just a thought to go along with the summon monster line of thinking here. What if you summoned a temporary (like d4+1 rounds) eidolon with a very specific number of evolution points. That would probably slow the game down quite a bit though...... never mind. Carry on.
More importantly, I don't think I could do that in four lines of text. ;-)
Eos Dei (page 103), Lord Foxglove (page 120), and Mana (page 229) don't have alignments.
Elysium Choir (page 208) is listed as a Thief spirit (!) on his page, and as angel on the spirit table. Obviously it's an angel spirit. ;) The binding DC for Elysium Choir is 28. In PMU 2, it was 27.
The binding DC for Green Glomairah (page 173) is 33. In PMU 2, it was 23.
The binding DC for Death Howls (page 188) is 25. In PMU 2, it was 21.
The binding DC for Portenta (page 215) is 27. In PMU 2, it was 28.
Kaylos (page 251) is now a seer spirit. Originally, it was a fiend spirit.
There are two level 2 skull spirits (Hollow Eyes and Prince Oszen), but no level 2 fiend spirit. Was that intentional?
Elysium Choir is fixed.
All of the binding DC changes are intentional.
Hollow Eyes is fixed. (He's actually the son of a demon, and is therefore a Fiend spirit.)
More importantly, I don't think I could do that in four lines of text. ;-)
How about something similar to:
You create a companion drawn from the depths of your imagination, as lesser simulacrum, but the creature is fully under your control. You can recreate the creature with 1-minute of painting. This granted ability replaces paint reality.
It would give you something really unique (and fit with the flavor text) and be one of the few spirits that can provide a permanent companion even if it dies. Lesser simulacrum ensures that you can't have a creature's magical abilities and that it is half as powerful you as you--which I think is a fair trade off for being able to recreate it.
Marat's Body revision, round three!
"Marat’s Protection: While you are bound to Marat, you can protect yourself with his spirit or his armored body. If you choose Marat’s spirit, you gain shield as a constant spell-like ability while you are bound to Marat. If you choose Marat’s body, you gain the ability to summon a masterwork suit of scale mail as a full-round action. The armor vanishes if removed or if you summon a second suit. At 3rd level and every four levels thereafter, your scale mail gains a +1 enhancement bonus to its AC, to a maximum of +5. At 9th level, you can summon Marat’s body as a suit of full-plate instead of scale mail."
The cost of changing Marat's Body to this is that I had to drop an upgrade to shield of fortification from the granted ability. (It no longer upgrades to 1 hour/level.) This wasn't for balance reasons; its simply that I couldn't fit both the new Marat's Protection AND that upgrade on Marat's entry.
What are everyone's thoughts with this version of the ability?
Marat’s Protection: While you are bound to Marat, you can protect yourself with his spirit or his armored body. If you choose Marat’s spirit, you gain shield as a constant spell-like ability while you are bound to Marat. If you choose Marat’s body, you gain the ability to summon a masterwork suit of scale mail as a full-round action. The armor vanishes if removed or if you summon a second suit. At 3rd level and every four levels thereafter, your scale mail gains a +1 enhancement bonus to its AC, to a maximum of +5. At 9th level, you can summon Marat’s body as a suit of full-plate instead of scale mail.
Definitely a step up for sure. I'd probably Marat's spirit along with a chain shirt (probably mithral if I can afford and get it).
Mithral Chain + Shield + 2 from 14 DEX (moderate number I think) gives me a very solid 20 AC, in the front and a way to stop magic missiles. Also allows full movement and little to no ACP (no ACP if you have mithral). This is all of course before I bring in another spirit (if I can) say Cromwell or Aza giving me at least +2 more AC. So cool.
Alternatively, at 7th I get the same thing, but I'm not weaker when being attacked from behind (if that's in fact how shield works), but I do move more slowly and have a bit of a larger ACP which degrades over levels.
At 9th, I could switch over to full-plate, which gives 9 + 1 allowable DEX bonus, so basically where we're at with 7th level and Marat's spirit when the enemy isn't behind us (if that's in fact how shield works). 9th will have worse ACP and just as much movement slowing as the scale mail would.
It is interesting. As it stands, if it were constant shield, like a spell like ability, that gained AC over time and eliminated the being weaker from behind thing (if that's in fact how shield works, which it probably isn't as I most likely read that somewhere or read into too much from the spell itself) it seems to have going then it'd be solid. Also, FYI, I'm not 100% certain that Shield only applies to enemies in front, so don't quote me on that. If it works at all angles, then even better... Nice update though. I think I'd probably consider using round three version, albeit probably only Marat's Spirit and maybe 11th lv. and up.
Dark Vessel Immediate action to grant yourself a 10% miss chance against the next attack or spell targeting you. Unfortunately the ability doesn't scale at all, and with the number of abilities an Occultist has that require a Swift action, giving up you're swift for a 10% chance just seems like a poor trade. +5% per 2 binder levels would make this a lot more appealing. Otherwise love the mechanic.
Agreed, especially with the new blurred movement spell from the ACG. He's the update.
"As an immediate action, the occultist can grant the next attack or spell that targets her a 20% miss chance. This ability doesn’t affect attacks or spells that target multiple creature and lasts 1 round per four occultist levels she possesses (minimum 1 round). The occultist can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + her Charisma modifier (minimum 1)."
Should Draconic Breath have a save? Draconic Breath Gives a short ranged (10ft line) breath weapon, dealing you're choice of element damage (chosen when you bind the spirit) for decent damage. No Saving throw is listed? Most Line effects are Reflex Partial?
Reflex half for this one. There's no partial effect listed; its just numeric damage.
UnHoly Touch Inflict Light Wounds 3+chr. I like this as an option, but I wish it scaled a bit better, maybe upgrading to Inflict moderate at 5th and Serious at 9th.
My revision is arguably better then what you wanted.
Unholy Touch: While the occultist is bound to the fiend spirit, she can cause a stable creature that has –1 or fewer hit points to resume dying with a touch. In addition, the occultist can cast inflict light wounds as a spell-like ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + her Charisma modifier (minimum 1). In addition, the maximum number of hit points of damage is based on the occultist’s level, not the limit based on inflict light wounds. For example, an 11th-level occultist with this aspect may use this spell-like ability to deal 1d8+11 points of damage instead of the normal 1d8+5 maximum.
I'm going to be honest, this is the first Constellation Aspect who's options I actively dislike. Diehard You gain the diehard feat, which is on my list of top 5 most hated feats. I would rather see Toughness or Great Fortitude here. I have never seen a Hero win the fight because of Diehard, but I have seen plenty stay standing at -9 and promptly get killed outright on the next attack. Heroic Aid You gain an extra +1 on aid another attempts. This just doesn't feel like it's anywhere near the same power level as the previous Constellation Aspects. It does have some synergy with Marat's Bodyguard Feat. Actually, if this Aspect gave the Bodyguard Feat and provided the additional +1, I would be on board with it. Timely Assistance You can cast the spell of the same name 3+chr per day. The problem is that this spell provides such a small bonus that its almost never worth using up you're swift action to cast it. I would much rather have the Option of casting Shield 3+chr per day, which would allow Hero spirits like Marat, Tyrant and Arthos to shine in melee. [i] Vigilance [i] Gain 1 temporary HP each round if you have no temporary Hp. Not terrible, and in fact likely the best of the Hero options, but it's a solid "Meh" to me.
— I'm changing the Diehard ability because we have a few spirits that grant it and having too much overlap isn't interesting. Diehard is being replaced with the following:
"Moment of Triumph: While the occultist is bound to the hero spirit, she can cast moment of greatness as a spell-like ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + her Charisma modifier."
— Aid another might not be your cup of tea, and that's fine, but there is a LOT of stacking that you can do with aid another, and technically you can be a cavalier (order of the dragon) multiclassed with occultist for some pretty big bonuses without investing much else.
— Timely inspiration will later upgrade into gallant inspiration. 5th level, to be precise. Timely inspiration is great at low levels, but you're right, it doesn't age well.
— Vigilance, in my opinion, is VERY powerful. Its basically a free casting of the virtue spell on you every round.
Page 85: "Constellation: Each spirit belongs to a constellation, which is listed under its summoning rules. A spirit’s constellation identifies similar themes between the life, ambitions, and qualities of a spirit. See Pact Magic Theory."
Where can I find the section titled Pact Magic Theory? Has this been renamed or is it a future section?
It was a theory that we were going to do, but haven't decided what/if we are still going to do it. It was a section that talked about the basic "science" behind pact magic, if you would.
Edit: Since this post is about referencing other sections, when the final book comes out, can these references reference a specific page number? While this book is really good at not splitting up rules explanations, sometimes it can't be avoided. When this happens, having a page reference to quickly find the rules makes it really easy to understand - and removes the potential of massive frustration for finding a rule (Shadowrun was like that - poor references with rules laid out all over the place; it made finding and understanding rules extremely frustrating).
Perhaps. I'm not sure if I'm going to remember to go back and double check for it with the billions of other updates and fixes that get added to my list every few hours. ;-)
Page 5: "An occultist may not select a constellation aspect more than once, even if she makes a good pact with more than one spirit of that aspect’s constellation."
Does this mean that I can't pick an ability from the Angel (or Dragon or whatever) constellation aspect more than once at a time, or any constellation aspect more than once at a time?
It means you can't pick an individual aspect more than once. For instance, you can't pick draconic scales twice to get a +2 natural armor bonus to AC. That's been updated in the constellation aspects section as so:
"Constellation Aspects (Su): Beginning at 1st level, every time an occultist makes a good pact with a spirit, she gains an additional supernatural power for the duration of her pact with the spirit known as a constellation aspect. This constellation aspect must be drawn from among those listed as being available to the spirit she sealed a good pact with, based upon its constellation. For example, Aza’azati, a Dragon spirit, grants occultists a constellation aspect chosen from among those listed as Dragon constellation aspects when a good pact is sealed with him.
An occultist may possess one constellation aspect per spirit that she is bound to and has sealed a good pact with. A constellation aspect is considered a minor granted ability for the purpose of how it interacts with all effects, including feats, spells, and magic items. An occultist may not select an individual aspect more than once and their benefits don’t stack. If a constellation aspect grants the occultist a spell-like ability, use the occultist’s level as the spell’s caster level. The saving throw DC against an occultist’s constellation aspects is equal to 10 + 1/2 of the occultist’s level + the occultist’s Charisma modifier."
I've been looking at character builds and I wanted to comment on the line of Occult Weapon secrets again:
Occult Weapon: You sacrifice a spirit's powers you can bind with to increase a weapon's magical abilities--these bonuses stack. +2 at 7th, +3 at 10, +4 at 13, and +5 at 16. These bonuses can also be used to add several different weapon properties.
Horrid Skean:
Requires: BAB +10 and 6th Level Spirits (Occultist 14 or non-Occultist 16), Seal of Living Darkness
THIS is why you take the Occult Weapon secrets. To get this ability. While wielding the occult weapon you add your occultist LEVEL to damage rolls and increase the critical damage multiplier by x1 of the weapon when you take an attack action.
Seal of Living Darkness:
Requires: Occult Weapon
You can make a demoralize attempt as a move action, which is nice, and if successful you cause the target to be shaken longer. It requires a good Intimidate check to be successful.
Sevnoir has a similar ability that demoralizes everyone within 30 ft. as a standard action for 1d4 rounds, negated by a Will Save vs. your ability DC. The capstone can increase the duration of the shaken effect.
Overall I think this secret can stay useful/valid for an entire career, but if it eventually upgraded to be a swift action demoralize that would be even better.
Shade Step:
Requires: Occult Weapon, Seal of Living Darkness
While wielding your occult weapon you can move (as a move action) 10 ft. (max of 30 ft. at 20) without provoking attacks of opportunity. Can be used 3+Cha/day.
I'd rather have something other than limited uses, but not provoking AoOs is a good ability, so I think this also stays valid.
Shroud of Shadows:
Requires: Occult Weapon, Seal of Living Darkness
While wielding your occult weapon you can gain concealment as a move action for one turn, but this only works against melee attacks. This concealment doesn't let you use Stealth.
This secret hurts, especially since it's required for Tendrils of Darkness. It long gets overshadowed once you get a full-attack, and is nigh-useless for a caster-type occultist (who would be the only type who could arguably keep this ability up). If this protected against ranged attacks as well it would be better, and if it eventually upgraded to only be a swift action instead of a move action then I could see it remaining useful.
Tendrils of Darkness:
Requires: Occult Weapon, Seal of Living Darkness, Shroud of Shadows, 4th Level Spirits (Occultist 7 or non-Occultist 10)
The flavor of this one is still great--as a CMB check you target a creature within 30 ft. and pin its shadow, reducing the speed of all its movement to 5 ft, and the creature needs to eat standard actions to escape, at a DC of your ability DC.
I like this ability and it's still great for a tank and stays useful, but at the higher levels with the more-powerful creatures I don't know if your normal ability DC is going to cut it. Maybe if it upgrades to 10 + full binder level + Charisma eventually?
An Occultist will give up 6 Binder Secrets and 1 Spirit to get the following suite of abilities while wielding a specific weapon at Occultist 14:
- Occultist Level Added to Damage and Critical Multiplier increased by 1
- Move-action Demoralize (single target)
- 3+Cha/Day: Move 30 ft. without provoking AoOs.
- Move-action concealment (20%) vs. melee attacks
- CMB check to lock down an opponent with great flavor text.
- Weapon enhanced by +5
Looking again at it like this I think it could be worthy of a spirit with a few revisions to Shroud of Shadows and Seal of Living Darkness to make them scalable.
Occult Weapon Questions
Q: Does Occult Weapon allow you to reconfigure your weapon with a 10-minute ritual? If so, that will add versatility to the secret as well as negate my issue with you losing the weapon and being out a spirit for 24 hours, provided you can perform the ritual without the weapon present.
Q: Can Occult Weapon also enhance a natural weapon (since it's considered a weapon)? I'm also assuming based on the wording that ranged weapons are also valid.
Q: With a full-round attack, can you target as many creatures with Tendrils of Darkness as you have attacks?
Page 65: this paragraph is found under the wizard archetype Soul Weaver, "A weird witch’s binder level is equal to her level.The DC to resist a weird witch’s supernatural powers is equal to 10 + 1/2 the weird witch’s binder level + the weird witch’s sorcerer’s Charisma modifier.This ability replaces arcane bond and arcane school."
Fixed. Chuckled at the typo that referenced "the weird witch's sorcerer's". Almost all of the arcane spellcasting classes were present for that one!
Marat's Body revision, round three!
What are everyone's thoughts with this version of the ability?
I like the revision--it gives more versatility for the ability as well.
I think Marat's Shield could be updated as well (and maybe this will help with space):
Marat's Shield: Body: Your armor gains light fortification at 4th and moderate fortification at 10th.
Spirit: You can cast shield of fortification as a spell like ability 3+Cha/day. It acts as shield of fortification, greater at 7th and has its duration increased to 1 hour/level at 10th.
This makes the choice of Marat's Protection even harder--do I want constant fortification, in which case I use the armor (and it can't be upgraded with other abilities), or do I go with a limited-use fortification that will stack with purchased armor?
I didn't realize there was a lesser ability in each spirit (as you mentioned with Mara's Alarm). I'll keep that in mind as I continue to look at the spirits.
Although I agree with your statement that's not really what I was aiming at. I know that the Amateur Occultist feat is there for the dabbler. However, what would the problem be if there were a feat chain (3 in total, lets say Amateur Occultist, Journeyman Occultist and Master Occultist). Taken together they would allow the character to obtain the equivalent effective binder level equal to his character level. Although he would would still be able to bind only one spirit. This way you have all bases covered. If someone truly only wants to dabble they take one feat. For those what want a bit more they can go all three. Three feats is no small investment and should be rewarded appropriately.
Previously the dabbler (Minor Binding feat chain) gained a single constellation to bind to. Minor granted a single constellation aspect (much weaker in the previous version), Improved granted a single minor ability only if successful, and Greater allowed you to gain 2 minors on a success, and 1 minor on a failure.
The current Amateur Occultist feat combines all those into one and and gives you all the abilities of the spirit you bind to, minus the capstone empowerment. That would be too powerful on its own if you were able to maximize your binder level to your character level when not being a pact magic-using class.
The archetypes are alright but the rule of only 1/2 effective binding level makes some of them, at least for me, kind of meh.
The archetypes have also gotten an upgrade in the Grimoire. While they are limited to one constellation (in most cases) and have a maximum spirit level of 6, their class levels count as full for effective binder level, not half.
A binder’s level is equal to her total levels in all pact magic classes. A pact magic class is any class that grants the bind spirits class feature. For example, a character with two levels of occultist and two levels of the warbinder fighter archetype has an effective binder level of 4th.
Awesome! Did I miss this? Has this update been made available to us backers?
It's stated on page 88 under Multiclassing, Binder Level.
The Unbarred binder secret does penalize you with the unbarred constellation, however, which leads me to this question:
Q: With the Unbarred binder secret, should the additional penalty of half-binder level with Unbarred constellations still be there? I feel that this is quite a penalty as the archetypes with Tunneled Lore are normally limited to one constellation and having a second as a choice at the sacrifice of a bonus feat, versatile performance, etc. should be enough of a penalty.
First page, under "perceptions of pact magic", it says:
I think that's intended to be is.
Occult Exploiter Archetype: The loss of arcane points seems fairly minor: by the time the difference matters, you can drop a low level spell slot without much concern and regain the lost points. Missing out on your first level exploit is painful, mostly because it clashes with so many other archetypes. For some reason, the arcanist doesn't get to take the unbarred secret, so they're never going to get a great selection of spirits – a bit odd for a class whose mechanics are focussed around flexibility in the spells you can choose from. Diminished spellcasting is a deal breaker, as it delays access to your highest level spells for a level (putting you a whole spell level behind the wizard). Charisma based, but arcanist also benefits from a decent cha so that's ok. Overall, I think I'll give this a miss as written with the arcanist character I'm currently playing.
Well, that is the package deal there. Yeah, you could make up for the loss of arcane reservoir points if you had spells to burn into it ... but you trade those. The arcanist IS gaining flexibility with this archetype, mind you. That said, I'm adding the ability for the occult exploiter to pick binder secrets in place of arcanist exploits beginning at 3rd level.
Totemic Sage Archetype: Charisma dependency and tunnelled lore are two black marks against this archetype. However, the archetype doesn't cost much – fast movement and small amounts of DR are nice extras, but not the main focus of the class, and losing a rage power and having three more be predetermined isn't terrible. Overall, I think it's a good archetype – I think I'd nearly always take it unless there was something else I wanted, but then again improving the martial classes isn't exactly a bad thing. Depends somewhat on how the above error is resolved.
That said, it's also very OP for dipping – the only thing you lose out on in a 1 level dip is fast movement!Its not a bad first-level dip, but it isn't as good now that binder levels don't stack for the purpose of determining your maximum spirit level. (See the multiclassing section of Chapter 3).
Soul Muse Archetype: Charisma dependency is good for this class, and tunnelled lore can be worked around with unbarred. Diminished spellcasting is probably less bad than it is for full casters, for obvious reasons. On the other hand, you lose both a spell known and spell per day. Missing out on bardic knowledge isn't major, although it's a bit of an odd thing for a pact binder to lose thematically. Giving up versatile performances for binder secrets is a very good trade in my opinion, especially as you don't always have to do it. Soul musing, as well as having a confusingly similar name to the archetype itself, is probably also a reasonable deal (although failing binding checks can also be fun). Overall, I think this archetype is about right – I'd consider taking it, but it wouldn't be a clear decision.
This is another problem class for dipping, as it only loses a first level spell per day and known for all the benefits of binding, as well as bardic performance, etc.Actually, loosing bardic knowledge is a huge balancing point for this class, as it ensures that the binder will always be better at completing Knowledge Tasks. See multiclassing comment above; dipping for occult options isn't as rewarding as it once was.
Fighter: Warbinder Archetype: A substantial upgrade for the class: one bonus feat and bravery for spirit binding is a very good trade. Even better for dipping. Of course, fighter is a fairly weak class in the first place, though...I agree that this is too much of a substantial upgrade for the fighter, so the warbinder is also losing the 2nd-level bonus feat in addition for the 1st-level one. The way its balanced, however, is like the Eldritch Guardian or the Unbreakable or the Dragoon; typically, when when a fighter archetype trades a bonus feat, it gets two specific bonus feats for that one. So in this case, you're losing a bonus feat for Amateur Occultist (a feat), a true binder level, and an increase to maximum spirit level. Losing a second feat is a fair trade for this, if not a bit of an uneven one.
Page 9: Root Stance. This seems kinda weak. I'm not sure anyone would ever take it. It takes a move action to be able to gain a small bonus to some of the most rarest used combat maneuvers (and you have to be able to predict it's going to be used against you!), and then another move action to get out of it - and meanwhile you can't move. That's a ton of wasted actions for a small situational bonus. Perhaps if it could be used reactively as an immediate action, and then takes a move action to get out of it. That might make it more on par with other constellation aspects and make it more likely to be used in game. Another possibility is that it makes you completey immune to those maneuvers; although this might be too powerful - but at the cost of two move actions and you cannot move yourself the entire time, it might not.
This will be revised in the next version.
Page 8: seer constellation aspect - canny prediction. Why does this ability not work on a natural 1? Natural 1s aren't a part of initiative rolls, they're only a part of attack rolls, combat maneuvers, and saving throws.
Its designed to work similarly to the cyclops insight ability.
Page 242: Ashvattha. Typo, "The distance teleported, as was as which spell effect is used..." Also, for this ability, is the direction teleported also random? Either way, are up and down viable directions? Are they teleported at the same elevation or always on the surface of the planet or always in a viable (aka survivable) location or something else?
Everything is random! Everything is random when you're bound to a tree! Everything is random! Snuffoluffagus.
I will say, I was a little disappointed that the Warbinder is no longer compatible with the Lore Warden archetype (it gives up Bravery, which the Warshade archetype does not).
Outside of that, I like everything I've read so far! I would point out the minor editing errors I've found, but I think others on this thread have done a much better job than I can, and at a much faster rate.
Lore Warden is my FAVORITE fighter archetype. And honestly, its REALLY good for what it does. Lore Warden + Warbinder = Everyone's fighter forever. The trade was designed specifically FOR Lore Warden, in fact.
The first sentence mentions "arrows" and should probably be "projectiles" to avoid confusion.
Will this ability work on any projectile or is it limited to "reasonably deflected" projectiles like the feat? (No boulders, ballista bolts, etc.)
If someone performs a "fastball special" with a sprite or hedgehog targeting you, they would get a Will save as well, correct? A rare enough thing to happen that it should just fall under DM purview, but I thought of it and it made me chuckle. Also a great way to "catch" someone falling out the window, as long as you can track them down after they turn into a bird.
It only deflects what Deflect Arrows can deflect. Since I've been asked this twice now, I'm updating the text to make it a little more clear that abjure missiles follows all of Deflect Arrows' rules.
Conversations about the Dark Sister's Three's abilities.
After some math and some discussion, I've decided to tone down blinding beauty. Its 1 round/level with a Fortitude save that reduces the effect to 1 round. We'll try that out and see if it works well, but at least now you have two ways to counter it (averting your gaze and a Fortitude save).
First page, under "perceptions of pact magic", it says:
** spoiler omitted **I think that's intended to be is.
Yup. Fixed.