@ Little Red Goblin Games ... thanks for the response! Your summary is pretty much spot on to my own thoughts. However, it's also frustrating the bloat that has occurred due to the number of "5th wheel" type classes. Don't get me wrong though, the classes are always interesting and/or unique and flavorful I just wish that more of them could be considered for a "core" group of players. In light of this, if one wanted to make the curse-wielder a candidate for your standard 4 man adventuring crew, what changes could be made to accomplish this? Possibly a tweak to weapon proficiencies, good fortitude save progression and an additional 2 skill points per level? Optionally, what would be really interesting is if there were options available to the curse-wielder similar in affect to the vigilante's specializations. Any thoughts on this?
Picked this up and as usual I am liking what I have read so far. However, one gripe that I have is the Curse-Wielder with it's limited proficiencies and only one good save. For a class that has one shtick going for it (debuffing) it's lacking a bit of versatility. As they have to inflict their debuffing via an attack I would think the class would have a few decent proficiencies baked into it, as well, being that the class is rather combat focused I would have thought a decent fortitude save and medium armor proficiency makes sense. As it stands now I am unable to craft anything that really makes sense from a player perspective (that is 4 players, each filling a specific role) without having to expend feats to shore up some of the issues I have outlined. In a nutshell, I am finding it difficult to pinpoint exactly what the class is useful for. To me it seems like it's another "5th" wheel class that is nice to have if you are running a larger group.
I am liking the new version of the Cavalier! Certainly an interesting take on a mostly unused (at least in my campaigns) class. The only thing I would love to see is a nature themed archetype that roars, howls, screams bellows or shouts to activate his aura's and can grant rage powers to those within his auras radius of affect. Just a random hopeful thought.
I was tinkering with the idea of building a "tanky" front-liner medic (angel of mercy) which also acted as the parties main healer. The class itself receives excellent proficiencies as well as class abilities to facilitate this, however, I am having a difficult time determining what feats to go with as well as maneuvers. I was thinking about focusing on Iron Tortoise and Golden Lion for great defensive and party buffing potential. I am also keen on going with a sword and board setup, although I am not having a lot of success determining feats. So far I was thinking about the following feats:
Extra Medics Expertise (Bolstering Treatment)
Improved Shield Bash
Shield Focus (heavy)
Defensive Expertise
Iron Tortoise Style
Iron Tortoise Shell
Iron Tortoise Snap
Stumbling Bash
Shield Slam
TWF
Here are my selections for Medic's Expertise (+3 FCB):
agile runner
developed immunity
doctor's advice
emboldening boost
martial strike
neutralize poison
recovering touch
improved recovering touch
revitalizing touch
treat curse
treat disease
That's about all I have so far, so any and all comments/suggestions are greatly appreciated.
Somehow the forums ate a portion of my post. Here's the rest:
@ Yirrixees ... I like what you've done with the conversion, although there are a few minor rules language glitches. I will be reviewing the rest of your class and will comment when I am done. Hopefully you still haunt these forums.:p
Three posts concerning your own product yet not a single word or even acknowledgement for the OP's original topic. This is, as far as I am concerned, a bit impolite.
Upon further contemplation, I have decided that if Paizo addresses the situation, and the feedback therein, and puts together an action plan for a solution to the matter, I will eagerly purchase this book in order to support good positive business practices.
If they choose to stay silent on the matter, or offer only conciliatory regards with no plan of resolution or redevelopment, that will likely draw to a close my 8 year relationship with Paizo and Pathfinder.
I have always celebrated this company for its openness and willingness to converse with its playerbase (especially via forum interactions), but if they ultimately prove unwilling to address things of this nature, it might constitute a shift in company practices to a direction that would deem my future support unwarranted. I hope the opposite will prove true.
This ultimately may mean very little, as I stated in my last post I haven't played Pathfinder in a while, and the last Pathfinder product I purchased was a roughly a year ago. Perhaps the resolution to this and my subsequent purchase of the book would reinvigorate my Pathfinder spirit, after all blazing infernos start from the smallest kindling. But I figured it best to proverbially put my money where my mouth is.
Good day all.
Well said! Although I already purchased the book.:(
Not that late! I think they get it around level 8 (if my memory serves) which, in playtest, was pretty balanced.
Hmm, going to have to disagree on this as my group usually starts to encounter critters with the specified dr well before level 8. Oh well, I can always take Eldritch Claws if need be and retrain.
Marc Radle wrote:
If you wanted to post a quick review up in the main product thread, I would not complain! :)
I will post a quick review once I am done reading the entirety of the book.:)
Just cracked open the newly revised New Paths Compendium and I am loving what I see so far. The only issue that really jumped out to me was the Skin-Changers Animal Combat ability. The issue I have with it is that the ability to bypass magic comes in really late. Should this not be online at around level 4-5 when, as a group, you start encountering critters which have dr/magic.
I am also excited because your version of a shape-shifting warrior trope is my choice for a mini campaign in which everyone is encouraged to play 3PP base classes.:) I had to change from my original decision because the skin-changer is such an excellently crafted class (ahem, besides what I mentioned above).
Just picked this up hoping that it had changed from the initial playtest doc and what I am seeing is still more of the same. The bulk of the class abilities feel like simple cut and paste. Also, what's the point of having benedictions? As far as I can tell the class has an extremely limited number of benedictions. Am I missing something? Also, the ability as it reads imply a set of specific class related sub-abilities. However, benedictions are used to power regular paladin related abilities. This I believe was a great chance at differentiating the class and making it truly unique ...
I mean...before looking at it, you've seen the magus right? After looking at it your class looks solid but the bladesinger was a fighter/wizard multi-class at inception and the magus or an archetype of magus made specifically for elves really slots directly into the niche. where what you have there kind of gives up the whole master of spell and blade thing the kit had going on when it was created.
I absolutely agree! The magus was the very first class I mentioned when the player said "bladesinger". However, he didn't go for it as he had played one previously and wanted something that could cast "blade spells". So, instead of coming up with an entirely new system of spells to mimic what he wanted I thought that having the bladesinger become an initiator is the perfect synthesist for playing a class that could cast "spells" using his weapon.
Hmm, I guess I could write an archetype that swaps out the maneuvers for paladin-like spellcasting (arcane spells, including a spellbook).
Personally, I have always thought of initiator type classes having the ability to cast "martial" spells. Which jives with the whole bladesinger casting spells shtick. It's just a different interpretation is all.:p
Cheers
Volf
Honestly i kind of like what you have there as a replacement for fighter. Expansion of the concept of maneuvers et-al really appeals to me.
Glad ya like it Ryan Freire! Let me know if there's anything that you feel should be changed or is over-powered.
I mean...before looking at it, you've seen the magus right? After looking at it your class looks solid but the bladesinger was a fighter/wizard multi-class at inception and the magus or an archetype of magus made specifically for elves really slots directly into the niche. where what you have there kind of gives up the whole master of spell and blade thing the kit had going on when it was created.
I absolutely agree! The magus was the very first class I mentioned when the player said "bladesinger". However, he didn't go for it as he had played one previously and wanted something that could cast "blade spells". So, instead of coming up with an entirely new system of spells to mimic what he wanted I thought that having the bladesinger become an initiator is the perfect synthesist for playing a class that could cast "spells" using his weapon.
Hmm, I guess I could write an archetype that swaps out the maneuvers for paladin-like spellcasting (arcane spells, including a spellbook).
Personally, I have always thought of initiator type classes having the ability to cast "martial" spells. Which jives with the whole bladesinger casting spells shtick. It's just a different interpretation is all.:p
I have an up and coming campaign in which we are all playing elves (I will be rocking out a druid using an archetype from Wardens of the Wild) and was tasked with creating a new Bladesinger base class for one of the players. I tried my best to dissuade them and pointed out many things that could be used to facilitate such a concept. But alas they were adamant and "diplomatically" voted me as the creator of our new Bladesinger class. Which brings me to the reason for my post. In an attempt to ensure that I have created something worthy of playing (and not completely and utterly broken) I come to the Pathfinder community to seek aid. Please check out my version of an otherwise very old but well loved gaming trope. Remember, this is a work in progress and still needs a lot of spit and polish. After this is done I will then have to create an NPC of 1st, 5th and 10th level in order for the group to playtest the new class. So ... before that happens I want the class to be as perfect as I can get it. Don't hold back folks ... let the bullets, erm comments, fly.:P
Such wonderfully unique and creative ideas are sprinkled throughout this thread. I just wanted to say thank you to everyone that has taken the time to share such incredible odds and ends with the rest of us! In the spirit of sharing I will also post something of mine. This is fairly old and was part of a weekend long adventure where we got to homebrew an archetype based on a movie or comic theme. I am sure you'll all be able to guess where the seed of creativity was found for my own idea.
The Dynamo. He's a blast to play.:p I have also enabled comments if anyone feels like doing so.
Are there any rules/archetypes for a more natural attack focused skinwalker? Possibly even something like a "Werelord" (full hybrid abilities as well as natural attacks and whatnot).
I cannot really add any more to the discussion that hasn't already been said. I am in full agreement with Elegant Egotist and khadgar567. I would never purchase a product which is 90% (approximately) copy paste. It needs a defining set of powers which incorporate both classes abilities because as it is currently is simply a mesh of the paladin and summoner. Interesting but mostly boring.
Thanks, lads! Sorry it took so long. I'm a forgetful goof. Also, Paizo technically never got back to me about free copies through this site :P
I won't be purchasing this for a while due to a sudden loss of income. However, if there are free copies to be had for the purpose of reviews please consider me. I would be more than happy to read and write a review for the product.
*Rubs chin* Well, if it helps, what you're looking at here is a 162-page product, acting as a full system complete with player aids to make it easier to play at the table. I never got the original - so I can't comment on the differences - but I think the price is pretty good for what you're getting.
I would certainly agree with that statement. However, it's a little different when you have already purchased the "parent" product. Having to purchase a product when approximately 1/4 (maybe more/less?) of it is something you've already read through is a little bit discouraging.:p
So no discount if we have previously purchased The Herbalist Base Class? It would lessen the impact on my wallet if you would be kind enough to give some sort of discount as price point for the new tome is a bit high (at least high enough for me that it discourages me purchasing the book).
I wanted to chime in and say that your work is down right impressive Forrestfire. This iteration of the warlock is probably one of the best I have ever seen. The abilities/write-up/fluff is exemplary. I only have one slight request .... please, please, please include a death pact in Avowed I.
The product is looking great Prince of Knives and the rustpicker looks very promising! Just because I cannot leave sleeping dogs lie I went ahead and created a few new knocks in support of the rustpicker. They fit the archetype thematically and help to enhance the archetypes already incredible versatility. Without further ado I present to you the following new knocks: Scrapblade, Swissblade, Mutable Metal and Multi-tool.
New Knocks:
Scrapblade (Su): A rustpicker must be self-reliant and are usually capable of cobbling together useful tools from the detritus of junk heaps and trash stacked alleys. Normally these are simple, a long piece of steel with a very sharp and pointy end. However, there are some rustpickers which have taken this a step further and are capable of creating a functional and lethal weapon composed of junk. A rustpicker with this knock is able to create any melee weapon, which they are proficient with, out of metal scraps and other such detritus. They must have access to a junk yard a garbage heap or other such location in order for them to scrounge for the required components. It takes the rustpicker 10 minutes to complete his scrounging. At the end of this he piles high his heap of treasure and then wills it to take the desired shape. The weapon is held together through sheer force of will, luck and the rustpicker's inherent supernatural power. The weapon has the same base statistics as a weapon of it's type. Beginning at 4th level the scrapblade gains a +1 enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls. This bonus increases by an additional +1 at 8th level and every 4 levels thereafter.
The rustpicker can repair a broken, damaged or destroyed scrapblade by expending resources from their brilliant plan fund as a standard action. Repairing hit point damage to the weapon costs 1 copper piece per hit point restored. It costs 1 silver piece, per scrapblade level, to remove the broken condition from their scrapblade. If destroyed the scrapblade may be repaired, to full hit points, by expending 1 gold piece per rustpicker level.
The scrapblade retains it's shape until the rustpicker rests for 8 hours at which point it breaks down into it's useless component parts. After resting the rustpicker can perform another search, as outlined above, in order to create another scrapblade. The rustpicker cannot recycle material from a previous scrapblade because the powers which maintain the weapon cause it to severely decay once the item returns to it's original individual pieces. Most rustpickers will scrounge for their scrapblade in the morning after having rested for the night in order to prepare themselves for the rigors of yet another adventurous day. The shape of the weapon is determined whenever the rustpicker creates a new scrapblade.
Swissblade (Su): A rustpicker can change the shape of his scrapblade, as a standard action, to another melee weapon that he is proficient with. This ability can be used a number of times per day equal to 1 + the rustpicker's Wisdom modifier. The scrapblade retains the new shape for a number of minutes equal to the rustpicker's level after which it reverts back to it's original form. Prerequisite: Scrapblade.
Multi-tool (Su): By concentrating as a swift action a rustpicker is able to reconfigure a portion of his scrapblade into one of the following: a set of thieves tools, a saw, crowbar, shovel, glass cutter, drill or abacus. These tools gain an enhancement bonus on their associated skill checks, if applicable, equal to the enhancement bonus of the scrapblade. The rustpicker can use this ability for a number of rounds per day equal to his rustpicker level + Wisdom modifier. These rounds need not be consecutive. Deactivating this ability is a free action. Prerequisite: Scrapblade.
Mutable Metal (Su): By incorporating additional material, such as barbed wire or blood from a slain creature, into the creation of his scrapblade the rustpicker is able to expend enhancement bonuses on the following special magic weapon properties: cruel, keen, wounding, bane, cunning, deceptive, rusting or viscous. Adding these properties consumes an amount of bonus equal to the property’s base price modifier. Duplicates cannot be added to the weapon. The scrapblade must retain at least a +1 enhancement bonus before any other properties can be added. Prerequisite: Scrapblade.
I'm gonna give it to you straight, I am not the world's biggest fan of the archetype; while I realize there's precedent now for altering BAB and the like, I don't really like how this hard-locks the 'fex into a particular archetype. The loss of essentially three skills (since you now non-optionally require Intimidate) hurts in the out-of-combat utility in a bad way, and the custom malefaction raises awkward questions of interactions with the existing malefaction rules and, more impotantly, with immunities and targeting.
Thanks for your honesty Prince of Knives! The archetype was put together on a whim in a very short time span. I simply thought it would make for an interesting concept. Not fully realized but more conceptual in practice. As far as "locking" a class into a more focused route I would have to disagree with you on that regard as many archetypes already do that. They offer up something, which can be extremely focused, by giving up or sacrificing another aspect of the class. Some archetypes completely change the forte or focus of it's parent.
Prince of Knives wrote:
You may end up enjoying the upcoming Rustpicker archetype, though.
This is a fantastic class Prince of Knives! You can be certain that you have one sale already!:P
In fact I like it so much I created an archetype for it. May I present to you the Blasphemous Blade. Let me know what you think.
BLASPHEMOUS BLADE:
BLASPHEMOUS BLADE (an archetype for the Malefex)
Living a hard life on the streets teaches a malefex how to survive against any opponent and to use any weapon at their disposal to overcome a foe. This self reliance and survival instinct has produced a sub sect of malefexes, known as blasphemous blades, with an extraordinary ability. With nothing else in hand these rare individuals have learned how to shape their malice and malignancy into a physical weapon. Through willpower and an unorthodox method, which few scholars even attempt to understand nor really want to, they hone their malevolence into a razor sharp edge. Once manifested most opponents pale before the nightmarish weapon and flee for their lives. However, the abstinate or truly foolhardy which remain soon realise the folly of their choice as the dire weapon is brought to bare against them.
A blasphemous blade has the following class features.
Armor Proficiency: The blasphemous blade is proficient with light and medium armor.
Skill Points: The blasphemous blade receives only 4 skill points per level.
Martial Malice (Ex): The blasphemous blade’s Base Attack Bonus is equal to his malefex level when wielding his malevolence manifested weapon.
Brutal Bearing (Su): The blasphemous blade uses the horrific and terrifying presence of his malevolence manifested weapon to cower and torment lesser beings. The blasphemous blade enjoys a competence bonus to Intimidate checks equal to his Wisdom modifier. He only receives this bonus when wielding his malevolence manifested weapon.
This replaces the knock earned at 3rd level.
Cruel Intentions (Su): The blasphemous blade can imbue his malevolence manifested weapon with his innate cruel and oftentimes murderous intentions. Beginning at 6th level the malefex can choose one of the following special weapon abilities: bane, cruel, corrosive, menacing, ominous, vicious and wounding. Whenever he uses his malevolence manifested weapon it gains the chosen weapon special ability (s). At level 12 and 18 he may choose another special weapon ability from the list above.
This replaces the Knocks earned at levels 6, 12 and 18.
NEW SPITE(TABOO/BANE/GAES/MALEDICTION)
Malevolence Manifested (Spite) [Curse] This curse causes a gnashing, convulsing, heaving, many toothed maw plane of roiling dark and fetid energy to erupt out of the malefex's outstretched hand. Target: Any opponent attacked with the malevolence manifested weapon
Saving Throw: Fortitude (see below)
This curse is unique because it is a physical manifestation of the malefex's control over the malignant energies he uses to curse opponents. At 1st level, when this spite is obtained, the blasphemous blade must choose a single melee weapon with which he is proficient. From this point forward this spite, when activated, takes the shape of that specific weapon. Once this choice is made it cannot be changed. The weapon uses the same statistics of the weapon that it mimics and if sundered can be reformed by recasting the malevolence manifested spite.
An opponent is allowed a saving throw versus this curse. The DC is determined as normal and if it is successful the weapon deals damage as if it were one size category smaller to that opponent. The blasphemous blade also loses the benefits of his cruel intentions ability versus any opponent that successfully saves. If the save is not successful the weapon deals damage as normal and the opponent is considered to be "cursed". Only one such individual can be cursed at a time. If the blasphemous blade strikes another opponent which fails their save they must chose which opponent is "cursed".
This spite increases in potency as the malefex gains levels. At 5th level this spite becomes a taboo and is considered to be the equivalent of a +1 magical weapon. At 10th level this curse becomes a bane and overcomes damage reduction as if it were a cold-iron and silver weapon. At 15th level this curse becomes a gaes and the malefex must choose one alignment component: chaotic, evil, good, or lawful; her malevolence manifested also counts as this alignment for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. (This alignment component cannot be the opposite of the malefex's actual alignment, such as a good malefex choosing the evil alignment.) At 20th level this curse becomes a malediction and overcomes damage reduction as if it were an adamantine weapon.
The summoned weapon can benefit from spells or abilities that grant a weapon enhancement bonus (such as the magic weapon or greater magic weapon spell). However, the weapon cannot be permanently enchanted.
This replaces the malefactions known at 1st level (the malefex knows only the malevolence manifested malefaction at 1st level) as well as the malefactions gained at levels 5, 10, 15 and 20.
The skin changer works perfectly for a concept (think Beorn from LotR: Desolation of Smaug) that I have wanted to play for a loooooooooooong time. Only issue I am having is increasing natural weapon attack damage.
Another stray thought ... ever think about trading out the stealth attack progression for a more straightforward melee oriented skin changer? Maybe something like additional increases to natural weapon damage etc etc.
I was wondering if the Skin-changer can take feats which require wild-shape? It seems like it should be able to, however, this is not stipulated anywhere in the animal shape ability.
Runesmith is awesome! Personally I would like to see a Runeknight archetype. Maybe a new set of equipment runes that animate their arms and armor so that donning/drawing them becomes faster. Another interesting idea would be aura runes which generate a multitude of beneficial effects.
I recall some time ago that there was a feat which appeared in a 3pp book which allowed a sorcerer to use their 1st level bloodline power additional times per day (the sorcerer gained a number of uses per day equal to 1/2 level + Charisma modifier). However, I cannot recall in which book I found it.:( If anybody knows which book this feat is in and what its called I would be forever grateful for you sharing that information.
Looks like there were a couple of errors I didn't catch.
I could take another look at the d10 hit die for the class. I think in the original design notes it's 1d8 hit die. Skills could probably be increased as suggested to 4 + Int mod./level.
Air Damage...That should read as bludgeoning. We were tinkering with Air damage as being half bludgeoning, half electricity, but it looks like that didn't make it into the layout. Oops.
Finally, the mention of the air domain. Bonus Spells from the cleric's air domain are added to the windblade's spell list as per her skybond power. These should be applied exactly how a cleric of the windblades level receives her domain spells.
Any chance of a change to the sword of winds duration? It seems like an iconic ability of the class but is extremely limited in duration (even though you add two modifiers to the abilities duration.) Something like 1/2 level plus xxxx modifier. It would make the ability more accessible while still maintaining balance. Also the addition of the different elemental damage bonuses seems a bit clunky. Why not simply allow them to choose another elemental damage type every 4 levels. This way they could simply change their weapon of winds elemental damage type based on which types of elemental damage they have previously chosen.
You can disregard my previous post as my tablet is a bit nutty at times and failed to load the entirety of the thread
No it is not. especially when there has been precedent for the chassis which is associated with certain types of themes. Also, d10 hit die, 9th level spells, cleric bab, just to name a few things, would make the class to powerful.
I can understand if bab and hit die are different when it makes sense. But a d10 hit die makes absolutely no sense for this hybrid class. It's certainly not part fighter or other d10 hit die melee class. When a class diverges from the norm there should be a reason. In this case that reason most certainly doesn't exist.
1-BAB progression.
2-Hit Die.
3-What's air damage?
4-Only one "bloodline" is limiting. Maybe include one or two other themed choices.
5-Weapon of winds is to limited. Also why the bonus elemental damage. Why not allow them to change the damage type to something else.
Right now I feel the product is hovering a about 2-3 stars but with a little work could easily be 4.
I just noticed a very slight issue with the pactsworn knight archetype. As per the side note a samurai can take the archetype which is awesome. However, the archetype does not swap out the mounted archer ability of the samurai. I was wondering if there could be a caveat added into the bonus feat ability of the pactsworn knight write-up that specifically allows a player to swap out the ability for another combat feat/occult feat/binder secret.
Cheers
Volf
I don't think so. That page is basically full, and I don't like the idea of making a trade only for the alternate class.
It'll still be a nice perk to have if you decide to bind a spirit with a vestigial companion you can ride, though!
Because the archetype changes one of the core features of the class I personally don't see the trade being an issue. You are removing the mount feature of a class, why would you not also remove the other, now superfluous, class abilities which augmented that feature. Although I can understand not making the change as the page is full. Personally this will be addressed in my own games should anybody choose to use this archetype.
I just noticed a very slight issue with the pactsworn knight archetype. As per the side note a samurai can take the archetype which is awesome. However, the archetype does not swap out the mounted archer ability of the samurai. I was wondering if there could be a caveat added into the bonus feat ability of the pactsworn knight write-up that specifically allows a player to swap out the ability for another combat feat/occult feat/binder secret.
I am going to be honest, I purchased the original product, thought it was pretty subpar, and now I find myself on the fence regarding whether or not I should purchase this product. In the end what really decides it is the price point. It seems to costly for a product with only 1 base class (that's also a rewrite of an existing one). As an incentive you might want to offer a discount for those with the original? Honestly, I find the cost of some of the 3rd party publishers to be a bit prohibitive lately which has resulted in my purchases being few and far between.
