PvP and the existing community


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Goblin Squad Member

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Gol Phyllain wrote:
You really need to make up your mind man. Did we have a ceasefire or didn't we?

Well, we stopped shooting didn't we?

But we never agreed to any specific terms, and we never would have agreed to any specific terms that were in direct contradiction with publicly announced Everbloom Alliance policy.

Goblinworks Executive Founder

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Gol Phyllain wrote:
You really need to make up your mind man. Did we have a ceasefire or didn't we?

Brighthaven was having talks, and Phaeros advised that we would not agree to any written terms but would like things to cool off. Things cooled off for a while, then there was aggressive action against us, then we responded to the heat with a measured move, then the murderhobos came down and we responded to the escalation.

Had it been only the two towers we lost that night, we probably would have taken them back, noticed the removal of the offending base camp, and cooled back off.

And you knew all of that, but if you gave the order to not attack, it would have been ignored, so you bought off on the consequences of recruiting players who want to advance "player killer" more than they want to meaningfully interact.

Goblin Squad Member

I doubt it, TSV decided during the land rush that Golgotha needed to be crushed at every opportunity. You knew that if you attacked us and took a tower we would respond and then you could drag your big brother into it and roll over us. You seem to have expected us to just stick to fighting you as you run in circles in towers. Instead we came south and started killing everyone we could catch. I'm sorry I refuse to play this game the way you want me to. I wonder how long it would take you to move on to a different offender if we leave for a different game? I'm guessing Stone root or hopes end are next on the chopping block. Poor TEO will just be dragged along with you as you push everyone else out of the game.

Goblinworks Executive Founder

It was during the land rush that I noticed that Pax was behaving antiehically to positive gameplay and would improve PFO by their absence or reform. I haven't seen any movement to reform the organization. Would it be too hard to, without admitting wrongness, put Callambea into a non-Pax member's hands, publicly disclaim any obligation they have towards you? That, combined with not encouraging random ganking, would satisfy me as well as anything that I can tell you to do.

Goblin Squad Member

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Its almost like T7V claimed they were going to try and keep non-combatants safe in an open PVP game, spent two years being called naive carebears on the forums, and are now accomplishing exactly what they said their goals were all along.

Goblin Squad Member

You know, it's strange, Decius, we have been saying the exact same thing about you and Nihimon since pre-Alpha. We believe that you are toxic to a cohesive community, and that you will do everything you can to undermine positive influences while hiding behind the pretense of being "the heart and soul of the community".

So how about this. We will hand Callambea off when you and Nihimon unsubscribe form the game.

That would satisfy me as well and anything that I can tell you to do.

Goblin Squad Member

I really don't see how the current situation is them accomplishing their goal. By removing my towers rep became meaningless. I use to do escalations now i run around the south killing people.

Goblin Squad Member

I have yet to see anything worth the time to type that justifies putting a basecamp where EVERYONE knows will cause a reaction.

Just like it is not Golgotha's job to teach small groups that PVP is more fun with more even numbers, it is not the EBA's job to teach that to Xeillias.

Yes the game is lopsided in favor of the EBA and particularly TEO, at the moment. Why keep poking them or their allies? Find a way to get your towers, build your cities, make some friends. Pull it back a notch from "aggressive disregard."

Even Morgoth/Melkor had to build in secret and bide his time, gnashing his teeth and muttering under his breath.

We are acting like any of this needs special justification. It is content. It is lopsided content, to be sure. Again, why do you keep poking the biggest side?

There aren't enough towers for everyone now. If GW wants us to fight, the most foolish thing that they could do next would be to move 0 towers up from 9 ranks or change anything that they have in place right now. No more work should go into WoT. <--- unless it improves things that will be around after WoT

Have you considered compromise and bargaining to get what you need? It sucks to go that route when you wanna be the bad guy. Right now is just not a good time to be the bad guy.


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Gaskon wrote:
Its almost like T7V claimed they were going to try and keep non-combatants safe in an open PVP game, spent two years being called naive carebears on the forums, and are now accomplishing exactly what they said their goals were all along.

Sounds like t7v have done exactly the opposite if you are here complaining your non combatants are now being slaughtered. In fact it rather sounds like their actions have caused them to fail.

Goblin Squad Member

Gaskon wrote:
Its almost like T7V claimed they were going to try and keep non-combatants safe in an open PVP game, spent two years being called naive carebears on the forums, and are now accomplishing exactly what they said their goals were all along.

This would not so easily be accomplished if it were not for the incompleteness of the game.

Bottom line is this, PFO would be a very different experience for all parties concerned if only partial threading (as was planned by GW) were actually a thing.

Item decay 1/5th (5% not 25%) of what was also described as the plan by GW.

A character needs to die 20 times before having to concern themselves with new gear, that is a tremendous altering factor to the desirability of PVP, both pro and con.

Tier 2 advantage over T1 has made combat far more gear centric than was originally advertised. So those who focused on Crafting are seeing a short term advantage over those that concentrated on combat. I say short term because eventually all will have T2 gear, and crafters will have little or nothing to do.

Goblin Squad Member

Bringslite, they have been putting base camps all over the map and farming any escalation they wanted to. They have been farming our raw materials. That was all fine there was no agreement to not do these things. Don't help them turn around us doing the same thing into us "deserving" what we got.

Lets engage in some hypothetical thinking. Golgotha has enough people in it to stomp the entire server. We tell you don't come south of this point or we will kill you. We then proceed to come north across that line constantly. I really doubt your group of Paladins would sit back and let it happen to them.


Gaskon wrote:
Gol Phyllain wrote:


TSV took a tower form AGC, we responded by taking towers from them and engaging characters around phaeros.

In my opinion, the bolded part is what makes Golgotha the aggressor.

Someone takes a tower, you take two towers. Fine.

Someone takes a tower, you go to their settlement and kill non-combatants. Not fine.

But the excuse Phaeros gives for taking the tower is because a Xelias company did an escalation.

The argument that PvE-ers shouldn't be targeted out in the countryside when the entire fracas started over the right to PvE in that countryside seems ludicrous.

The PvE hexes ARE EXACTLY what the disagreements started over, so OF COURSE they are going to be the battlegrounds.

The problem for Phaeros is that 100% of our escalation doers and 90% of our gatherers are also PvP-ers.

So rather than fight over the actual battlegrounds Phaeros tried to shift the war to a War of Towers.

Phaeros won the war they chose.

Yesterday's 30 enemy dead to 5 friendly dead suggests Golgotha is winning the war they chose in what I'll call the real battleground.

Here's a question to ponder:

If Phaeros holds every tower on the entire map, will that help them gather and do escalations?

At some point, if you want to utilize a gathering hex or escalation you might have to, you know, go there and get back to a settlement safely.

And if you want to monopolize a gathering hex or escalation you're going to have to scout and guard them 23/7.

I think I can go a lot longer without towers than Phaeros can go without gathering or doing escalations.

Maybe I'm wrong, but if this drags out, we'll find out, won't we?

Goblinworks Executive Founder

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Gol Tink wrote:

You know, it's strange, Decius, we have been saying the exact same thing about you and Nihimon since pre-Alpha. We believe that you are toxic to a cohesive community, and that you will do everything you can to undermine positive influences while hiding behind the pretense of being "the heart and soul of the community".

So how about this. We will hand Callambea off when you and Nihimon unsubscribe form the game.

That would satisfy me as well and anything that I can tell you to do.

That was not an opening position. I can not negotiate my beliefs.

Goblin Squad Member

Bluddwolf wrote:
Gaskon wrote:
Its almost like T7V claimed they were going to try and keep non-combatants safe in an open PVP game, spent two years being called naive carebears on the forums, and are now accomplishing exactly what they said their goals were all along.

This would not so easily be accomplished if it were not for the incompleteness of the game.

Bottom line is this, PFO would be a very different experience for all parties concerned if only partial threading (as was planned by GW) were actually a thing.

Item decay 1/5th (5% not 25%) of what was also described as the plan by GW.

A character needs to die 20 times before having to concern themselves with new gear, that is a tremendous altering factor to the desirability of PVP, both pro and con.

Tier 2 advantage over T1 has made combat far more gear centric than was originally advertised. So those who focused on Crafting are seeing a short term advantage over those that concentrated on combat. I say short term because eventually all will have T2 gear, and crafters will have little or nothing to do.

I agree to some extent with the durability being a little too lenient, but would perhaps take a more moderated approach. Leave tier 1 as it is, give T2 items 10 durability and T3 items 5. This provides a more lenient atmosphere for novices and grows less forgiving as you gain play experience. It also makes sure that T2 and T3 crafters are kept a little more busy.

Goblinworks Executive Founder

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Lifedragn wrote:
Bluddwolf wrote:
Gaskon wrote:
Its almost like T7V claimed they were going to try and keep non-combatants safe in an open PVP game, spent two years being called naive carebears on the forums, and are now accomplishing exactly what they said their goals were all along.

This would not so easily be accomplished if it were not for the incompleteness of the game.

Bottom line is this, PFO would be a very different experience for all parties concerned if only partial threading (as was planned by GW) were actually a thing.

Item decay 1/5th (5% not 25%) of what was also described as the plan by GW.

A character needs to die 20 times before having to concern themselves with new gear, that is a tremendous altering factor to the desirability of PVP, both pro and con.

Tier 2 advantage over T1 has made combat far more gear centric than was originally advertised. So those who focused on Crafting are seeing a short term advantage over those that concentrated on combat. I say short term because eventually all will have T2 gear, and crafters will have little or nothing to do.

I agree to some extent with the durability being a little too lenient, but would perhaps take a more moderated approach. Leave tier 1 as it is, give T2 items 10 durability and T3 items 5. This provides a more lenient atmosphere for novices and grows less forgiving as you gain play experience. It also makes sure that T2 and T3 crafters are kept a little more busy.

That would also require making t3 costs a fraction of what they are.

Seriously, look at the amount of raw material in t3 equipment, most of which nobody has seen anywhere yet.


Gaskon wrote:
Its almost like T7V claimed they were going to try and keep non-combatants safe in an open PVP game, spent two years being called naive carebears on the forums, and are now accomplishing exactly what they said their goals were all along.

Yesterday... the first day of the kill them all decree...

30 southerners dead to 5 Xelias dead.

I'm guessing they were safer BEFORE Phaeros got bent out of shape over an AGC base camp at an escalation.

Goblin Squad Member

Gaskon wrote:
Its almost like T7V claimed they were going to try and keep non-combatants safe in an open PVP game, spent two years being called naive carebears on the forums, and are now accomplishing exactly what they said their goals were all along.

That's part of it. The biggest part of it is creating a place where PvP-averse players can feel comfortable easing into PvP at their own pace. Yes, Golgotha is doing everything they can to ensure we fail at that by deliberately trying to focus as much of the "roughest form of PvP" (Lee's words) on those PvP-averse players to punish them for daring to join us. Yes, we're going to do everything we can to make Golgotha pay for that over the long term. They may feel like they don't need Reputation or Training or Support right now, while the whole server is kinda stuck in the middle of Tier 2, but I'm fairly confident that won't always be the case and they've got a snowball's chance in hell of ever knowing peace with Phaeros again.

Gol Phyllain wrote:
... if we leave for a different game?

That's the crux of it, isn't it?

You'll lie about us, mock us, twist everything we say or do, and if we beat you, you (deniably) threaten to quit the game and accuse us of driving away players. You're a broken record.

Goblin Squad Member

I have never once lied about any of my dealings with you. Every other group in this game that has had any sort fo deal with Golgotha has seen it honored. TSV is the only group where these agreements seem to fall apart. We don't twist what you say we just remind you of things you have said in the past that are blatantly wrong or contradictions. You havn;t beaten me you took my towers, towers we did not defend since you just run in circles to cap them instead of fighting. Why would we subject ourselves to that? You will not cause me to quit the game, this game letting you do dumb stuff like that will cause me to quit the game, that or the game just being bad.

Goblin Squad Member

I expect Caldeath to take exception to that statement and forget that we told him it only counted as long as callambea was dead. Maybe you guys just need to be more specific in your terms?

Goblin Squad Member

Quote:
that or the game just being bad.

And dear god is it bad.


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Nihimon wrote:
Gaskon wrote:
Its almost like T7V claimed they were going to try and keep non-combatants safe in an open PVP game, spent two years being called naive carebears on the forums, and are now accomplishing exactly what they said their goals were all along.

That's part of it. The biggest part of it is creating a place where PvP-averse players can feel comfortable easing into PvP at their own pace. Yes, Golgotha is doing everything they can to ensure we fail at that by deliberately trying to focus as much of the "roughest form of PvP" (Lee's words) on those PvP-averse players to punish them for daring to join us. Yes, we're going to do everything we can to make Golgotha pay for that over the long term. They may feel like they don't need Reputation or Training or Support right now, while the whole server is kinda stuck in the middle of Tier 2, but I'm fairly confident that won't always be the case and they've got a snowball's chance in hell of ever knowing peace with Phaeros again.

Taking that tower was not about keeping non-combatants safe, it was about you punishing AGC for daring to do a T2 escalation that you want to monopolize simply for POWER.

Aggrandizing power for yourselves is a totally valid way to play the game, but don't for a second pretend taking that tower was about protecting PvE-ers. That is just nonsense.

Goblin Squad Member

@Guurzak, what you said and what Tink said, seem to be two different statements, I agreed with one, and not the other.

Coming down and killing everyone you came across from NE Monster Hex to Phaeros was clearly breaking the armistice, to us, and not attacking towers, since every hex you killed people in were not towers that were open PvP Hexes.

@Everyone else talking about placing holdings in Gol territory.

TEO has placed small holdings in hexes that are clearly 2 hexes or more from any settlement, and in territory that has been unclaimed. We farm the escalations in the Eastern and Western sides of the map when we have time, because no one else farms them.

Now, what ever anyone on either side thinks or perceives or whatever, as a community we need to back off from fighting each other come the new patch so that we can figure out Holdings and Outposts. When they hit its going to take more than some people on the test server to actually test these things out.

Goblin Squad Member

Phyllain, thanks for replying and giving some more info.

Direct question for you: Are they putting basecamps in your territory or just around the map in places that there are no grounds for objections? Please just answer straight up, without extra cream.

If the former than that is not a good thing, if the latter then.... what? Could you explain why you don't consider it different if it is the latter?

I am ready to voice my opinion that if EBA, Phaeros, or whoever does the former then they deserve to see a reaction.

It is all fine to be so huge that you draw recruits like a free beer special and keep doing so. It is not good if you use your weight to do the same things that you normally attack others for doing.

Unless you are a bad guy.

Your Hypothetical: We would fight you until the server was a simulation of the Stone Age.

Edit: This is a hot topic. Can't keep up....

Goblin Squad Member

Nihimon wrote:
[ they've got a snowball's chance in hell of ever knowing peace with Phaeros again.

Don't think that's going to happen cheatle. Nihimon will just drag us back into it again.

Goblin Squad Member

Gol Phyllain wrote:
I expect Caldeath to take exception to that statement and forget that we told him it only counted as long as callambea was dead. Maybe you guys just need to be more specific in your terms?

Caldeathe took exception to it several hours ago but you apparently missed it. Not difficult, considering how thick and fast the fecal matter has been flying. You may think you told me that, but it you didn't. At least not before the fact.

Goblin Squad Member

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Nihimon wrote:

That's part of it. The biggest part of it is creating a place where PvP-averse players can feel comfortable easing into PvP at their own pace.

PVP-averse players should definitely not be joining a settlement which starts wars over a smallholding placed for PVE purposes and which flatly refuses to commit to any agreements which might prevent such wars. You can't be the most aggressive power on the map and also claim to be protecters of the helpless and innocent.

Goblin Squad Member

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Gol Guurzak wrote:
You can't be the most aggressive power on the map and also claim to be protecters of the helpless and innocent.

Side A attacks military targets, purposefully avoiding non-combatant casualties. (taking a tower). They send their army to meet their opposition at predictable times during which only volunteer soldiers need to be involved in combat. (defending the tower).

Side B responds by ignoring the military targets and heads into civilian territory to kill the non-combatants that are least interested and capable of fighting back. Their leaders say things like "kill them all" and "all targets are legitimate".

Side B is gonna have a real hard time convincing me that side A is the aggressive one, even if it really was side A that fired first.

Goblin Squad Member

Side A refuses to agree to any terms of war, and then starts a war. Side B wages a war which side A started and which side A decided would have no terms.

Not trying to convince you of anything though, since it's obvious your mind is made up already.

Goblin Squad Member

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Remind me how taking a tower does not harm non-combatants?

That is being compared to placing a small holding, to harvest a Monster Hex, which is not only PVE but it is harvesting a completely renewable resource.

Goblinworks Executive Founder

Bluddwolf wrote:

Remind me how taking a tower does not harm non-combatants?

That is being compared to placing a small holding, to harvest a Monster Hex, which is not only PVE but it is harvesting a completely renewable resource.

Lol. Four GCEs in two sentences.

Goblin Squad Member

Gol Phyllain wrote:
I have never once lied about any of my dealings with you. Every other group in this game that has had any sort fo deal with Golgotha has seen it honored. TSV is the only group where these agreements seem to fall apart. We don't twist what you say we just remind you of things you have said in the past that are blatantly wrong or contradictions. You havn;t beaten me you took my towers, towers we did not defend since you just run in circles to cap them instead of fighting. Why would we subject ourselves to that? You will not cause me to quit the game, this game letting you do dumb stuff like that will cause me to quit the game, that or the game just being bad.

You guys just going to ignore that?

Goblin Squad Member

DeciusBrutus wrote:
Bluddwolf wrote:

Remind me how taking a tower does not harm non-combatants?

That is being compared to placing a small holding, to harvest a Monster Hex, which is not only PVE but it is harvesting a completely renewable resource.

Lol. Four GCEs in two sentences.

GCEs?

Goblin Squad Member

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Bluddwolf wrote:
DeciusBrutus wrote:
Bluddwolf wrote:

Remind me how taking a tower does not harm non-combatants?

That is being compared to placing a small holding, to harvest a Monster Hex, which is not only PVE but it is harvesting a completely renewable resource.

Lol. Four GCEs in two sentences.
GCEs?

Generally Correct Explanations.

Goblin Squad Member

I was going to guess Gross Conceptual Errors (whatever those are).

Goblin Squad Member

TEO Alexander's definition would be more fitting.

The loss of towers will eventually hinder even non combatant ability to train, and so it harms them as well. There is no conceptual error in that, it is a game mechanic based fact.

Placing a small hold is debatable as being PvE or PvP.

Monster Hexes are currently stagnant, unlike escalations which can be depleted. Therefore they do produce an infinitely renewable source of resources and PvE content.

Again, not incorrect in any conceptual way, supported fully by the current gane mechanics.

Decious' attempts to be witting tend to fall short.

Goblin Squad Member

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Gol Guurzak wrote:
Side A refuses to agree to any terms of war, and then starts a war.

Side A (Phaeros, duh) refused to agree to any specific terms which would bind us to inaction in the face of hostility. As a result, when AGC took hostile acts, we reacted with a measured, proportional response. We took one Tower specifically from the Company that had been making hostile acts in EBA territory. We successfully defended that one Tower the next night, then unsuccessfully defended it the next night. None of that activity involved TEO/Brighthaven. At that point, since the hostile acts from AGC had stopped (as near as we could tell) we were content to let things cool off again. But in an all-hands EBA meeting, a large force from Golgotha came into EBA territory and started killing everyone they could find.

You can say we "started" it all you want, but just keep in mind there are quite a few people in the audience with enough reading comprehension and general judgment to get a feel for the truth.

Goblin Squad Member

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Just think how good the drama will be when this game has actual consequence, working mechanics and required strategy.

:-)

Goblin Squad Member

Bluddwolf wrote:
The loss of towers will eventually hinder even non combatant ability to train, and so it harms them as well.

The Seventh Veil's policy is don't kill random players. If we don't know you're an enemy, we leave you alone. Everyone who is harmed by the loss of Towers in this war is a known enemy.

Goblin Squad Member

Im just going to keep posting this until someone responds since You two tend to ignore things you cant refute.

I have never once lied about any of my dealings with you. Every other group in this game that has had any sort fo deal with Golgotha has seen it honored. TSV is the only group where these agreements seem to fall apart. We don't twist what you say we just remind you of things you have said in the past that are blatantly wrong or contradictions. You havn;t beaten me you took my towers, towers we did not defend since you just run in circles to cap them instead of fighting. Why would we subject ourselves to that? You will not cause me to quit the game, this game letting you do dumb stuff like that will cause me to quit the game, that or the game just being bad.

Goblin Squad Member

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Nihimon wrote:
Bluddwolf wrote:
The loss of towers will eventually hinder even non combatant ability to train, and so it harms them as well.
The Seventh Veil's is don't kill random players. If we don't know you're an enemy, we leave you alone. Everyone who is harmed by the loss of Towers in this war is a known enemy.

I'll take "Missing The Point" for 500, Alex.

Taking towers affects non combatants in Golgotha.
All people affected by taking towers is a known enemy.
Thus, non combatants are considered known enemies by TSV.
It can therefore be inferred that TSV non combatants are acceptable targets per TSV's own doctrines.

Goblin Squad Member

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Gol Phyllain wrote:
You two tend to ignore things you cant refute.

I've just learned how futile it is to try to refute the likes of you and Bluddwolf with facts and links to quotes. All that happens is I get mocked for providing links to quotes.

My friends have given me really good advice about only engaging the folks who are actually worth engaging - which is why I generally try to respond to Guurzak - but I'm deeply flawed and still have trouble actually following that advice.

People don't behave in ways that are contrary to their nature. You guys were running around killing everyone you could in the very beginning of Alpha. Trying to pretend that The Seventh Veil somehow drove you to that point now is ridiculous. I think you've always wanted to be murder hobos. I think that's why Pax made their first alliance with Bluddwof. I think that's why why Pax made their second "not an alliance, for realz" with Bluddwolf. And I think that's why you're getting all the groups who also very clearly wanted to be murder hobos (looking at you AGC) to join you.

Enjoy it while it lasts.

Goblin Squad Member

Bluddwolf wrote:
Monster Hexes are currently stagnant, unlike escalations which can be depleted. Therefore they do produce an infinitely renewable source of resources and PvE content.

(The hex in question was (-5,14), 2 hexes NW of Blackwood Glade. This is a Monster hex, not a Monster Home hex. At the time of the incident, the hex did in fact contain a Mordant Spire escalation.)

Goblin Squad Member

Gol Phyllain wrote:
Every other group in this game that has had any sort fo deal with Golgotha has seen it honored.

You can continue to say it, and I will continue to deny it. You exited your agreement with Stoneroot without informing us that you considered Callambea active and considered the agreement ended.

Goblin Squad Member

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Bludd has literally nothing to do with anything relevant happening in this game. Why do you keep bringing him up? There is maybe one golgothan still playing who played alpha, hit, it wans't me. Everyone involved with the choices to ally with bludd the first and second time is no longer with us.

Goblin Squad Member

Caldeathe Baequiannia wrote:
Gol Phyllain wrote:
Every other group in this game that has had any sort fo deal with Golgotha has seen it honored.
You can continue to say it, and I will continue to deny it. You exited your agreement with Stoneroot without informing us that you considered Callambea active and considered the agreement ended.

Part of the agreement was that when call became active the agreement was over. They became active the agreement ended. No reason to inform you. I figured you knew they where active when they tried to take their towers back and you guys killed them. (as you should have)

Goblin Squad Member

Gol Phyllain wrote:

Bludd has literally nothing to do with anything relevant happening in this game. Why do you keep bringing him up? There is maybe one golgothan still playing who played alpha, hit, it wans't me. Everyone involved with the choices to ally with bludd the first and second time is no longer with us.

That was me! And I think your memory is faulty. I spent my time in Alpha plinking at people, but specifically not killing them. I probably still have the VoDs to prove it.

But as you say, who cares about silly things like facts.

Edit: Aww, Twitch deleted my VoDs.

Goblin Squad Member

Or the fact that now we have thorn guard that work because of it. Can you imagine the in game slaughter if we still had original thornguard?

Goblin Squad Member

Hey, I really enjoyed having Thornguards that were completely toothless, it made it much easier to shoot people with arrows while running around naked.

Goblin Squad Member

Gol Phyllain wrote:
Caldeathe Baequiannia wrote:
Gol Phyllain wrote:
Every other group in this game that has had any sort fo deal with Golgotha has seen it honored.
You can continue to say it, and I will continue to deny it. You exited your agreement with Stoneroot without informing us that you considered Callambea active and considered the agreement ended.
Part of the agreement was that when call became active the agreement was over. They became active the agreement ended. No reason to inform you. I figured you knew they where active when they tried to take their towers back and you guys killed them. (as you should have)

Complete Bull. We exchanged towers with Callambea several times, during which you said you considered them inactive and didn't care. So your response is that we're supposed to know that the difference between this tower exchange and all the previous ones is that you are present.

So to recap, people who have an agreement with you will know when that agreement is over by the fact that you are attacking them.

Goblin Squad Member

No, people that we have agreements with will know the agreements are over when the conditions of the agreement are meet.

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